Fairytale of New York - cancelled

[the science eel]

And See My Baby Jive is the third-greatest number one single of all time, so it's still verging on perfect.

go on then

[DrGreggles]

#1 Rock Me Amadeus

[Jockice]

go on then

1 Goody Two Shoes.
2 Tiger Feet.
3 The aforementioned.
4 Going Underground.
5 Ghost Town.

[pigamus]

If you did that list in exact reverse order you'd get more traction

[Jockice]

when he calls his love rival a poof? I don't really see why it's more ridiculous than any other censorship of music lyrics, really. They'd ban shit every time, and poof is definitely stronger than shit. They also say bitch and slag and tart.

Incidentally, I don't read the Daily Mail as a matter of course but recently happened upon an article about a policeman who had killed his mistress after she had told his wife about their affair. He had been described as a 'male whore' during the court case. The Mail went big on this but in the headline and copy he was described as 'a male 'w***e.' I mean, what the fuck is all that about? Is that a word considered so offensive it can't be used under any circumstances? Mail readers of course will of course now be thinking that the killer cop was a male whale.

[Jockice]

If you did that list in exact reverse order you'd get more traction

Yeah, but I'm a rebel. Do everything backwards.

[DrGreggles]

1 Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick
2 Geno
3 Ghost Town
4 Two Tribes
5 Tainted Love

Ooh, a bit 'Eighventies' heavy!

[Nobody Soup]

Yeah. But it seemed to be totally arbitrary. The word 'poof' (or to be accurate 'puff') is used earlier in the song too but (I could be wrong here) I don't think that was censored. And if they were going to censor it why just not stop playing it before that bit? Or just don't play it at all. That would be the easiest solution. It was on late at night, I honestly don't think anyone would be fainting at the use of some rude words.

Plus it is a comedy record using exactly the sort of language teenagers used in the late 70s. I know because I became one when it was in the charts. It's funny because it's so accurate. It wouldn't get played (or possibly even made) these days of course but that doesn't stop me thinking it's one of the greatest singles ever.

I don't want to pretend I'm speaking for the entire UK based LGBT community, but I've spoken to gays about this and my friends said they actually find "poof" more offensive than "faggot" as the former is the one that was actually linked to school yard bullying and harassment and the latter is an import from an American culture.

There's as much, if not more, reason to ban Jilted John than there is the Pogues.

(probably could go off on a tangent here about how the UK seems to frame most of it's opinions on prejudice from an American standpoint)

[Jockice]

I don't want to pretend I'm speaking for the entire UK based LGBT community, but I've spoken to gays about this and my friends said they actually find "poof" more offensive than "faggot" as the former is the one that was actually linked to school yard bullying and harassment and the latter is an import from an American culture.

There's as much, if not more, reason to ban Jilted John than there is the Pogues.

(probably could go off on a tangent here about how the UK seems to frame most of it's opinions on prejudice from an American standpoint)

Yip, fair enough. I got called a poof quite a few times during my schooldays (I'm not even gay, just not particularly macho) whereas I'm not even sure I'd heard faggot in that sense until the Pogues song. It just seems a bit silly to play a song that contains a few words that people could find offensive and bleep over the words. As I've said, why play it at all, or why not just cut it before that bit? Would make much more sense.

[the science eel]

1 Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick
2 Geno
3 Ghost Town
4 Two Tribes
5 Tainted Love

Ooh, a bit 'Eighventies' heavy!

Better than that other fella's.

I'd go:

Geno
Wuthering Heights
See My Baby Jive
Paperback Writer
Don't You Want Me

[An tSaoi]

It's worth pointing out that, for a time, "faggot" was used in Ireland to denote a lazy, cheapstake, useless, layabout type of person, unrelated to its more famous homophobic meaning. I know McGowan is barely Irish, but do you reckon he intended the more colloquial version? That would certainly match the thrust of the rest of the line. She's hardly accusing her man of being gay.

Of course this theory us undermined by McGowan's real-life use of a homophobic slur. Hmmm...

[daf]

5. The Pipes and Drums and Military Band of The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards - Amazing Grace
4. Simon Park Orchestra - Eye Level
3. Winifred Atwell - Let's Have Another Party
2. Russ Conway - Side Saddle
1. Lord Rockingham's XI - Hoots Mon

[the science eel]

Hoots Mon! such an overlooked gem, that one. Love it love it

[Jockice]

Hoots Mon! such an overlooked gem, that one. Love it love it

Racist against us Scots. Ban it! Now!

[Johnboy]

hmm , my fave is winter's tale by david essex

(which i'm not sure even mentions christmas)

[phantom_power]

I am too young to know but was "poof" and "puff" the same thing in the late 70s? I always took it to mean he was saying that Gordon is soft, like a cream puff, rather than gay, but I suppose the etymology might be a bit tangled

[jamiefairlie]

No it meant gay but it was so widespread that it did become the generic insult of choice for most people, especially if the other person was in any way diverging from accepted male behaviour e.g. showing compassion, crying, having a haircut, not liking football etc

[Jockice]

No it meant gay but it was so widespread that it did become the generic insult of choice for most people, especially if the other person was in any way diverging from accepted male behaviour e.g. showing compassion, crying, having a haircut, not liking football etc

...nicking someone else's girlfriend. I mean, how gay can you get?

[JaDanketies]

Yeah I definitely feel like in my childhood 'gay', 'poof' and to a lesser extent f*ggot were used to mean "a male who shows sensitivity or taste." No wonder that so many men are emotionally-stunted people who think that eating chicken nuggets is a source of pride.

"Herbs de provence? You big poofter."

[jamiefairlie]

RICK: I AM NOT BEING G...Look, this entire discussion is completely sexist anyway and I don't intend to continue it! [pause] But, for your information, it is not soppy of me to long for a world where a man will love his brother.

VYVYAN: Poof!

RICK: You're deliberately trying to provoke me, aren't you?

VYVYAN: Yeah!

RICK: For one man to love another, Vyvyan, is not poofy. It's actually very beautiful. It's only when they start touching each others bottoms that it gets poofy.

VYVYAN: I'm going to tell Mike and Neil that you said you love men. Hey, Mike...

RICK: Look, all I said was this comic is a reactionary militaristic pamphlet! All they ever do is fight all the time!

VYVYAN: And what's so wrong with that? I suppose you think we should all go around touching each others bottoms! 'Dan Dare touches Algie's bottom!' 'Exciting new story: Batman gooses the Joker's crack!'

RICK: Alright! Alright! Alright! What's this? [makes weird hippie body movement]

VYVYAN: Being poofy!

[jobotic]

My father once used the word "poovery". You don't hear that very often.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

My father once used the word "poovery". You don't hear that very often.

Your dad is Richard Ingrams?

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

I used to love those things in the NME when they got a group of bigmouths to verbally fight it out. I'm sure there was one with Mark E Smith and Paul Heaton as well.

That was a Melody Maker article, from their 1997  Crimbo edition, the interview being labelled as the words of  the " Three Wise Men", the third man being Peter Hook, who addressed MES as " E.T" throughout the entire interview.

[non capisco]

That was a Melody Maker article, from their 1997  Crimbo edition, the interview being labelled as the words of  the " Three Wise Men", the third man being Peter Hook, who addressed MES as " E.T" throughout the entire interview.

Found a transcript of that here

MES on the absolute windup again, saying the royals should have the power to execute for treason.

Ian Broudie? He's on everything innee? I was in this hotel in Ireland recently and every time I turned on the telly he was on. Finally I went to sleep and in my dreams I just kept seeing Ian Broudie's face, revolving around. It was terrifying actually

[buzby]

It's worth pointing out that, for a time, "faggot" was used in Ireland to denote a lazy, cheapstake, useless, layabout type of person, unrelated to its more famous homophobic meaning. I know McGowan is barely Irish, but do you reckon he intended the more colloquial version? That would certainly match the thrust of the rest of the line. She's hardly accusing her man of being gay.

Of course this theory us undermined by McGowan's real-life use of a homophobic slur. Hmmm...

We went though this earlier in the thread. The song is written in character as a contemporary Irish American couple (he's an alkie, she's a smackhead) arguing in a hospital A&E ward after woman has taken an overdose. The historical Irish use of the word was as an insult against women, not men. She also calls him a bum and a punk, which are contemporary American insults too. Americans use the word as an insult  term for a man who is defective or sub normal because of it's association with being homosexual (See Stewart Lee's Dyl Spinks Hicks parody for an example).

[pigamus]

They're just chucking the cheapest insults possible, of which "You're a queer" would be one of the most obvious

[pigamus]

My father once used the word "poovery". You don't hear that very often.

I was always very confused by "pooves" plural, God knows how you go about pronouncing that

[Gulftastic]

It Ain't Half Hot Mum knew what it meant. Being theatrical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6dALp4VPU8

[phantom_power]

RICK: I AM NOT BEING G...Look, this entire discussion is completely sexist anyway and I don't intend to continue it! [pause] But, for your information, it is not soppy of me to long for a world where a man will love his brother.

VYVYAN: Poof!

RICK: You're deliberately trying to provoke me, aren't you?

VYVYAN: Yeah!

RICK: For one man to love another, Vyvyan, is not poofy. It's actually very beautiful. It's only when they start touching each others bottoms that it gets poofy.

VYVYAN: I'm going to tell Mike and Neil that you said you love men. Hey, Mike...

RICK: Look, all I said was this comic is a reactionary militaristic pamphlet! All they ever do is fight all the time!

VYVYAN: And what's so wrong with that? I suppose you think we should all go around touching each others bottoms! 'Dan Dare touches Algie's bottom!' 'Exciting new story: Batman gooses the Joker's crack!'

RICK: Alright! Alright! Alright! What's this? [makes weird hippie body movement]

VYVYAN: Being poofy!

But that is poof, not puff. Were they used interchangeably?

[JaDanketies]

At least where I live, "poof" and "puff" sound identical and "puff" is only used as an insult by people who don't know that you actually spell the homophobic slur 'poof'.