Topic: Fairytale of New York - cancelled

[pigamus]

Maybe already mentioned but didn’t Shane MacGowan also say he’d been beaten to number one by two queers and a drum machine 

[Johnny Textface]

Maybe already mentioned but didn’t Shane MacGowan also say he’d been beaten to number one by two queers and a drum machine 

"Queer" is fine though surely.  "Drum Machine" is a new one on me though.

[grainger]

I can remember 15 or 20 years ago, f*ggot was all over Eminem lyrics and South Park episodes, which were two of the biggest cultural forces for youngsters. It's remarkable how it has now become an unacceptably fierce homophobic slur in such a short period of time.

It absolutely was unacceptable then. It was absolutely unacceptable in the 80s when I was growing up.

As to your examples, well nuff said, but if we really must, they were already decades behind history, regardless of talent. Eminem was never someone to model your world view after. And the South Park "dicks, pussies and assholes" guys have always, inexplicably, got away with murder in the eyes of otherwise sensible people.

[grainger]

"Queer" is fine though surely.

Seriously?

[Marner and Me]

Can we ban the song because it's fucking shite?

[chveik]

It absolutely was unacceptable then. It was absolutely unacceptable in the 80s when I was growing up.

As to your examples, well nuff said, but if we really must, they were already decades behind history, regardless of talent. Eminem was never someone to model your world view after. And the South Park "dicks, pussies and assholes" guys have always, inexplicably, got away with murder in the eyes of otherwise sensible people.

yep. the 'it was a different time then' argument can fuck off here

[jobotic]

Let’s all think up new alternatives to sing over it. The shittier the better.

“You irk me, dagnabbit!”

“Sweet bargain, I’ll grab it!”

“I like Lenny Kravitz!”

“When’s dinner? I’m famished!”

No, you can't have it back, silly rabbit

[PaulTMA]

Hopefully we will have evolved and in 20 years time they'll merely have to ban Low's Just Like Christmas for being really boring.

[Johnny Textface]

Seriously?

No? LBGTQ?

[thecuriousorange]

"Queer" would actually be fine now, as it takes in and celebrates a broad range of sexual identities in a positive light.

But back then the word was a horrible insult and nothing else.

[earl_sleek]

'Queer' being reclaimed as a self-descriptor is relatively recent, yes. There are still a lot of LGBT people who don't like it.

[Captain Z]

two queers and a drum machine

They almost became Jonathan Ross’ house band.

[Utter Shit]

"Queer" would actually be fine now, as it takes in and celebrates a broad range of sexual identities in a positive light.

But back then the word was a horrible insult and nothing else.

It's been reclaimed to the extent that I think as a straight person you can comfortably talk about 'queer theory' and 'LGBTQ', but I don't think you could describe a gay person as 'queer' or 'a queer'.

[pigamus]

I think only homophobes say queers plural

[kalowski]

two queers and a drum machine

Euphemism for two balls and a cock?

[grainger]

'Queer' being reclaimed as a self-descriptor is relatively recent, yes. There are still a lot of LGBT people who don't like it.

And "self-descriptor" is key. Also, using it as part of the abbreviation LGBTQ is not the same as using the word in its own right. Referring to someone as "queer"... well, I think it would raise eyebrows.

[grainger]

It's been reclaimed to the extent that I think as a straight person you can comfortably talk about 'queer theory' and 'LGBTQ', but I don't think you could describe a gay person as 'queer' or 'a queer'.

Yes, better put than my attempt at explaining it.

[jobotic]

They should just get Klaus & Klaus (featuring Klaus) to re-record it, as they did here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGOx4oG3Q3g

[thecuriousorange]

I hate that the debate around this song can never, ever be resolved because the track vanishes every January 1st and everyone forgets it exists, before being loudly indignant about it for a few weeks all over again the next Christmas. We'll soon be putting this issue back in its box without solving it.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

I think most of you lot must have experienced or are aware of the outright zeal in which lads prick up their ears at the lousy faggot line and utterly belt it out, arm in arm, freshly emboldened in and outside of pubs at this rotten time of year. That's weird and irritating to straight people. It's an absolute and unmitigated terror to queer people.

Literally no way to rehabilitate this trash. The Pogues are also complete shite.

[Chriddof]

yep. the 'it was a different time then' argument can fuck off here

Around the early 90s (possibly 1993 or 94, maybe), I remember being in a Pizza Hut in the lead up to Christmas, and they were playing all the usual Christmas music throughout the restaurant. Slade, Wizzard, that McCartney one, etc. Eventually the tape they were playing came round to Fairytale Of Bloody New York, and right after the line we're debating was belted out over the speakers, the volume was hurriedly turned down as low as it could go without being muted. It remained like that for the rest of my stay.

[magval]

I think most of you lot must have experienced or are aware of the outright zeal in which lads prick up their ears at the lousy faggot line and utterly belt it out, arm in arm, freshly emboldened in and outside of pubs at this rotten time of year. That's weird and irritating to straight people. It's an absolute and unmitigated terror to queer people.

Literally no way to rehabilitate this trash. The Pogues are also complete shite.

I think this was highlighted in last year's Gavin and Stacey Christmas episode, which I didn't watch. The fuss seemed to be over the joy with which that particular line was sung by the characters in a pub.

Always appeared to me to be a show that celebrated laddishness without irony so I doubt if it was a comment so much as a statement, but not having seen it it would be unfair of me to have a strong opinion.

[daf]

I had the idea that Shane MacGowan had died a few years ago, but not only is he alive (somehow!), it turns out he's about as Irish as Rod Stewart is Scottish!

MacGowan was born to Irish parents in Pembury, Kent, on Christmas Day in 1957, and his family returned to Ireland at some point after his birth. MacGowan spent his early childhood in County Tipperary, Ireland, before his family moved back to England when he was six and a half. He lived in the Home Counties and attended an English public school. He has lived in many parts of the south-east, including Brighton and London.

[JaDanketies]

He went to the same school as Adam, Joe, Louis Theroux and Nick Clegg but got chucked out for drugs.

[idunnosomename]

Seems he got a scholarship to Westminster, his parents arent posh or anything

[Captain Z]

Anyway, The Waitresses - Christmas Wrapping is the new hipsters choice for "actually, MY favourite Christmas song is..."

[non capisco]

Or Just Like Christmas by Low. Which I loved since it first came out, thank you very much.

[pigamus]

I've a soft spot for A Spaceman Came Travelling, don't tell anybody

[JaDanketies]

Sufjan Stevens has done at least two original Christmas songs, both of which are bangers.

Christmas Unicorn

and Sister Winter.

I'm checking out your recommendations now, which makes Christmas Wrapping by the Waitresses the first Christmas song I have deliberately listened to in the run-up to Christmas 2020. wtg

[Jockice]

Can we ban the song because it's fucking shite?

It's not shite (I liked it when it first came out but was thoroughly sick of it by the early 90s) however I really would prefer never to hear it again for the rest of my life. Like Blue Monday by New Order (another band I'm very fond of) it's a long way from their best track and has also become extremely tedious just through sheer overplaying.