Cooking questions

[paruses]

Is it just Italian cuisine that causes this sort of upset amongst non-<insert name of country>?

[Urinal Cake]

American cooking shows always seem to have 10 ingredients too many, by that I mean they add like two or three sauces/seasonings too many which are 'secret recipes' within themselves. Like a UK recipe might just add Worcestershire sauce. Or a Chinese recipe might include soy sauce and oyster sauce but really that's like ideally four ingredients.

The more I think about cooking it really comes down to technique.

[H-O-W-L]

Throw everything you have in the pan and set it all on fire. If it tastes good then do it again next time.

[colacentral]

It's been a long road to perfecting my pasta sauce since I stopped eating meat, but what I make now is almost always better than anything I had when I was using beef.

A good pasta sauce is mostly down to the base - properly frying the onions and garlic, and adding some fineley diced extras to it, whether that be carrots, courgettes, celery, fennel, or whatever, and a red or orange pepper. I usually fuck it up if I get impatient at this stage and add the tinned tomatoes in too early, and that's when the end product is bland no matter what you do.

Sometimes I add a few chopped sun dried tomatoes to it too. I also use plum tomatoes rather than chopped, as I find they're less watery, and I always like to add a few fresh chopped tomatoes too. A bit of spinach doesn't hurt either. And I'd always add at least a dash of chilli flakes.

Apart from that, just stock, salt, pepper, basil and oregano to finish it off.

[TrenterPercenter]

Some people just can't help over complicating things.  My partner made some Ottolengi dish the other day (who largely in his SIMPLE book has trying to stop over complicating things) but it was served with "olive oil and lemon mash".  Load of balls, i think sometimes they are just trying too hard, lemon does not go with mash, fullstop, lemon is an acidic intensely bitter flavour that needs to be balanced, potato doesn't do this unless you are doing other things to balance this out so all you are doing is making soured mashed potatoes.  Which is as disgusting as it sounds.

[colacentral]

American cooking shows always seem to have 10 ingredients too many, by that I mean they add like two or three sauces/seasonings too many which are 'secret recipes' within themselves. Like a UK recipe might just add Worcestershire sauce. Or a Chinese recipe might include soy sauce and oyster sauce but really that's like ideally four ingredients.

The more I think about cooking it really comes down to technique.

That's what I find too. Again, since I stopped eating meat, it's forced me to think more carefully about what I'm doing to make things that are as satisfying as a slab of meat would have been, and I think a big part of it is just planning, being attentive, and tasting as you go.

[TrenterPercenter]

And I'd always add at least a dash of chilli flakes.

Adding chilli is fine if you want a spicy ragu but you really don't need to worry about much else in what you are doing in this case.   Adding chilli is always a safe bet for covering any bad flavours.

[colacentral]

Adding chilli is fine if you want a spicy ragu but you really don't need to worry about much else in what you are doing in this case.   Adding chilli is always a safe bet for covering any bad flavours.

I did say a dash (in a sauce with two tins of tomatoes' worth of liquid in, ie a large pot). I don't know how sensitive you are to spice but a slight hint of chilli flake is just like adding black pepper, it gives it a slightly different dimension to what's already in the sauce.

I mean, to say adding chilli "covers any bad flavours" is a big insult to all asian food, for a start. It's patently not the case. Not to mention that improving flavour is the goal of cooking.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

lemon does not go with mash

It's lemon mash mate

You mash lemons up to make them thick cloudy buttery and sharp and acidic. Not had mashed lemons mate? Missing out

Get yourself Mash + Me by Youtuber The Lemon Quest, 28 great dishes to serve using lemon mash

[TrenterPercenter]

I did say a dash (in a sauce with two tins of tomatoes' worth of liquid in, ie a large pot). I don't know how sensitive you are to spice but a slight hint of chilli flake is just like adding black pepper, it gives it a slightly different dimension to what's already in the sauce.

I mean, to say adding chilli "covers any bad flavours" is a big insult to all asian food, for a start. It's patently not the case.

Not sensitive to chilli in the slightest thanks, use it all the time and can I shock you, I have a cupboard with about 20 odd different dried varieties (at anyone time) and I also know that chili isn't a background "note" (well unless you are using certain chillis which I don't believe you are) and nothing like adding pepper (its piperine which is a completely different kind of spice to capsicum).

I'm obviously not insulting all asian food, I'm saying you can add chilli to places where it shouldn't be to mask bad flavours (like ragu), the appropriate use of chilli in dishes where it should be is excellent and it actually completely the other way round, South Asian, Middle Eastern and South American chefs (amongst others) know how to use chilli properly.

[TrenterPercenter]

It's lemon mash mate

You mash lemons up to make them thick cloudy buttery and sharp and acidic. Not had mashed lemons mate? Missing out

Get yourself Mash + Me by Youtuber The Lemon Quest, 28 great dishes to serve using lemon mash

Should have added some chilli flakes.

[Gurke and Hare]

There's no bigger waste of time in cooking than doing a "proper" ragu. Yeah, it's a bit better than a garlic, mince, tin of tomatoes, oregano sauce, seasoning simmered for half an hour with whatever else you like in it, but it's not that much better to be worth the effort.

[TrenterPercenter]

There's no bigger waste of time in cooking than doing a "proper" ragu. Yeah, it's a bit better than a garlic, mince, tin of tomatoes, oregano sauce, seasoning simmered for half an hour with whatever else you like in it, but it's not that much better to be worth the effort.

This what I was saying going to all that balls to make "a proper" ragu and then adding chilli to it.

[Urinal Cake]

Doesn't adding chilli to a tomato sauce just make it 'Arrabiata'?

[colacentral]

Not sensitive to chilli in the slightest thanks, use it all the time thanks have a cupboard with about 20 odd different dried varieties and I also know that isn't a background "note" (well unless you are using certain chillis which I don't believe you are) and nothing like adding pepper (its piperine which is a completely different kind of spice to capsicum).

I'm obviously not insulting all asian food, I'm saying you can add chilli to places where it shouldn't be to mask bad flavours (like ragu), the appropriate use of chilli in dishes where it should be is excellent and it actually completely the other way round, South Asian, Middle Eastern and South American chefs (amongst others) know how to use chilli properly.

What is the "bad flavour" in what I've written above? And why have you put "note" in quotations like it's a bizarre concept, in a small quantity anything is a background flavour; the amount I would add (literally a sprinkle, half a teaspoon) barely even registers as hot, indeed it could even be psychosomatic, but I feel like it's been better the times that I've used it.

Why have you got it set in stone what can and can't go in a ragu? As you say, you can have a spicy one. This isn't a spicy recipe, it is, again, a dash; an optional extra that barely registers but makes a difference to me.

You can add a spoon of sugar if you want, or crushed fennel seeds. The core recipe is the same, and you adjust it to your tastes. I'm also talking in the context of a meat free recipe that needs more to the sauce to avoid being bland.

I mean I've seen some cunty posts on this forum but that's up there.

[colacentral]

This what I was saying going to all that balls to make "a proper" ragu and then adding chilli to it.

What do you not understand about "a pinch"?

[colacentral]

Doesn't adding chilli to a tomato sauce just make it 'Arrabiata'?

No, that's an actual full on spicy sauce. Me adding five flakes of dried chilli to a standard pasta sauce isn't a big deal unless you are the sort of person who gets hot looking at a korma.

There's no bigger waste of time in cooking than doing a "proper" ragu. Yeah, it's a bit better than a garlic, mince, tin of tomatoes, oregano sauce, seasoning simmered for half an hour with whatever else you like in it, but it's not that much better to be worth the effort.

What effort? Chopping a carrot and a courgette?

[colacentral]

This what I was saying going to all that balls to make "a proper" ragu and then adding chilli to it.

Like above, "all that balls" = chopping a couple extra bits.

The point I was making was about the base and frying it for long enough - the extra stuff is specifically about not having meat, since it's in the context of me having to adjust my cooking without it. You can make a basic standard ragu, the point is that I found the biggest difference I've had is taking a bit longer to fully cook the base. Ignore the extra ingredients, that wasn't the point. It corresponds to the other post about "technique" over ingredients.

Adding eg courgette, fennel etc finely chopped to a base though is just the same as adding a veg stock. You can say it's not worth the effort, but it's no effort at all, and to me the ratio of effort to how much of an improvement it makes is worth it. If I didn't go out of my way to improve it, it would be so bland as to not bother making one at all.

[TrenterPercenter]

What is the "bad flavour" in what I've written above? And why have you put "note" in quotations like it's a bizarre concept, in a small quantity anything is a background flavour; the amount I would add (literally a sprinkle, half a teaspoon) barely even registers as hot, indeed it could even be psychosomatic, but I feel like it's been better the times that I've used it.

Because it isn't traditionally in ragu.  Ragu isn't really set up to use chilli as a background note there are other herbs and things that it doesn't go with.  You seem think it is about being hot, it is about the flavour of capsicum.  By all means enjoy it psychosomatically if you like.  I'm saying don't be a ponce about something being proper ragu and then add chilli to it (and that was about Mook not you).

Why have you got it set in stone what can and can't go in a ragu? As you say, you can have a spicy one. This isn't a spicy recipe, it is, again, a dash; an optional extra that barely registers but makes a difference to me.

Hmmmm, I'm not saying ragu is set in stone? I'm saying "proper ragu" doesn't have chilli in it and that some people put chilli in things, like ragu, because it is not good i.e. bland add some hot sauce.   There is nothing wrong with it but the trade off is something tasting of chilli that shouldn't (or should if you want chilli in your ragu).

I'm also talking in the context of a meat free recipe that needs more to the sauce to avoid being bland.

Ok, erm, yeah kindof what I was saying.

I mean I've seen some cunty posts on this forum but that's up there.

Ha!, wait you are not serious are you? if not then Ha! very good.

[TrenterPercenter]

Btw as a side point i've heard a lot of vegetarians moan about the ubiquitous "spicy vege" option when out.

[colacentral]

Because it isn't traditionally in ragu.  Ragu isn't really set up to use chilli as a background note there are other herbs and things that it doesn't go with.  You seem think it is about being hot, it is about the flavour of capsicum.  By all means enjoy it psychosomatically if you like.  I'm saying don't be a ponce about something being proper ragu and then add chilli to it (and that was about Mook not you).

Hmmmm, I'm not saying ragu is set in stone? I'm saying "proper ragu" doesn't have chilli in it and that some people put chilli in things, like ragu, because it is not good i.e. bland add some hot sauce.   There is nothing wrong with it but the trade off is something tasting of chilli that shouldn't (or should if you want chilli in your ragu).

Ok, erm, yeah kindof what I was saying.

Ha!, wait you are not serious are you? if not then Ha! very good.

I didn't say "proper ragu," either we're talking at cross purposes or you're misquoting me. I half facetiously said "perfect," as in to my tastes and better than any I had tasted when I was eating meat, not "perfect" as in the definitive statement on a traditional ragu.

Edit: autocorrect error.

[colacentral]

Btw as a side point i've heard a lot of vegetarians moan about the ubiquitous "spicy vege" option when out.

Mate, it's not spicy, you're not getting it.

[TrenterPercenter]

Me adding five flakes of dried chilli to a standard pasta sauce

Five, measely, stinking, flakes!


I think you'd be better off arranging a chilli pentangle and praying the flavour into your ragu mate.

[TrenterPercenter]

Mate, it's not spicy, you're not getting it.

What are you talking about now.  They, the vegetarians I am talking about, are talking about always having to eat spicy food as its the only thing on offer in some places.

[colacentral]

Five, measely, stinking, flakes!


I think you'd be better off arranging a chilli pentangle and praying the flavour into your ragu mate.

Obviously an exaggeration because "a pinch" is being misinterpreted as a pinch from andre the giant.

What you say about chilli not going with other herbs in a ragu is categorically not the case as, like you said, you get spicy ragu recipes. You also have pizzas with tomato, basil, oregano, garlic, and yes, chilli.

[TrenterPercenter]

I didn't say "proper ragu," either we're talking at cross purposes or you're misquoting me. I half facetiously said "perfect," as in to my tastes and better than any I had tasted when I was eating meat, not "perfect" as in the definitive statement on a traditional ragu.

Edit: autocorrect error.

Jesus christ you were serious about it being one the cuntiest posts you've seen on here.

See the words where it said and that was about Mook not you i think that might be worth a look before you start accusing me of misquoting you or saying Asian people can't cook.

[TrenterPercenter]

What you say about chilli not going with other herbs in a ragu is categorically not the case as, like you said, you get spicy ragu recipes. You also have pizzas with tomato, basil, oregano, garlic, and yes, chilli.

Giving up on this now mate.  Enjoy your spicy/not spicy food.  Don't let anyone tell you how to run your shit.  All the best.

[colacentral]

What are you talking about now.  They, the vegetarians I am talking about, are talking about always having to eat spicy food as its the only thing on offer in some places.

We're talking at cross purposes then, as in the context of our conversation it looks like the implication is that my solution to veggie food is "make it spicy," when my point all along is that this is making a mountain out of a mole hill, when you would not eat my sauce and think "fucking hell, why did you put chilli in this?" You would probably not know it's in there, but if I told you, you might go "oh yeah, I can see that now."

Frankly, you can leave it out, it's not a big deal. Again, the main reason I posted was to make the point about how taking care of what you're cooking is more important than throwing loads of stuff in, ironically enough agreeing with you.

[TrenterPercenter]

Great.


So what's for dinner then?

[colacentral]

Jesus christ you were serious about it being one the cuntiest posts you've seen on here.

See the words were it said and that was about Mook not you i think that might be worth a look before you start accusing me of misquoting you or saying Asian people can't cook.

You literally quoted me here:

Adding chilli is fine if you want a spicy ragu but you really don't need to worry about much else in what you are doing in this case.   Adding chilli is always a safe bet for covering any bad flavours.

Which yeah, is pretty cunty to me, but I accept you didn't intend it that way.