Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 29, 2024, 09:59:15 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Trouble in Paradise: New House Edition

Started by confettiinmyhair, November 21, 2020, 10:08:11 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Twit 2

That time Pubes Daz went to Bangkok on business.


Zetetic

Quote from: pancreas on November 24, 2020, 11:27:40 PM
including extreme manipulation, megalomania, egotism
The only one of these that would generally be taken as defining of "BPD" would be manipulation and even that doesn't really make any sense. (What seems to characterise BPD is extremely poor attempts to get what you want from others. Effective manipulators mostly don't register as such.) Indeed, two of them are arguably in direct contradiction with the ICD-10's characterisation of F60.3 (contrasted with F60.4) with its mentions of, for example, disturbed self-image and chronic feelings of emptiness.

Which perhaps points at why it's not a great idea to expect terms whose actual sense has mostly been "this person is so essentially monstrous that all we can do is wait for them to kill themselves, and I know because I've tried to help them and it made me feel bad" to do this sort of work. They'll happily accrue all sorts of contradictory meanings, so long as these can be seen through the lens of "this person is a piece of shit". (I note the similarity with common-language slurs in this respect.)

QuoteIf you do, what title would you give it?
I don't know. I probably wouldn't include the term "personality disorder" (since this seems to have never really meant anything other than "this person's failure to be better made me feel bad so I'm giving up"). I'm not a fan of "complex PTSD" because it's so causal-route specific, but it's better.

I think I've probably come to the point where I reckon we've got something like 5 diagnostic labels in functional mental health than are better than nothing[nb]With the rest overwhelmingly being diagnoses of exclusion.[/nb], and that almost all of the rest of the time you're better off just describing whatever it is about the person you (or they) are finding irritating, and maybe some of the events that seem relevant behind that.

If I really felt that I had to use a term that's so bound up with historical horrible use then I'd probably consider whether it needed a bit more couching - particularly in a thread where the person was being described in largely the way that the slur usage seems intended to cover in fancy-speaking science-talk.

(I'd guess that part of the point of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend is that it used some of its 40 hours of running time on something other than just repeating a particular term.)

chveik

Quote from: Zetetic on November 25, 2020, 01:05:39 AM
I think I've probably come to the point where I reckon we've got something like 5 diagnostic labels in functional mental health than are better than nothing

pretty low standards for what claims to be a science

not really a dig at you, I just can't help thinking the dsm is shit for cunts

Zetetic

It's not a great situation, no.

Most of those labels are clearly groping at something but usually so vague and diffuse that it's of extremely low value to apply to individuals to determine how we treat them, even before we get into the practicalities of how and why those labels are applied to individuals in practice. "Conduct disorder" (i.e. "this kid is a real angry piece of shit") is a good example of this, since a) in practice it's clearly overwhelmingly applied to try to define whose problem the kid is and b) we've got good evidence that it's got at least one massive split in in genesis and how well it responds to current interventions.




Getting back to the thread proper, I'd emphasise that confettiinmyhair's attempts to describe the interactions they're suffering (and how they make them feel) do seem very useful, and setting them out hopefully makes them easier to reflect on.

GMTV

Barrels Per Day. She's discovered that the house is sat on an oil field and wants to get production up and running ASAP.

Icehaven

It took me while (and a mention of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend) to realise you all meant Borderline Personality Disorder and not Bi-Polar Disorder.

holyzombiejesus

Quote from: icehaven on November 25, 2020, 08:48:23 AM
It took me while (and a mention of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend) to realise you all meant Borderline Personality Disorder and not Bi-Polar Disorder.

It took me you stating that to realise.

Ferris

I'm rewatching the Wire (of course I fucking am) and I default to Baltimore Police Department.

Sherringford Hovis

Quote from: confettiinmyhair on November 24, 2020, 09:14:59 PM
I dare say I'll be regretting decisions I've made during this situation, it's hard to know what the right ones are.

The right decisions are the decisions you make. Indecisiveness and hindsight are the opposite of progress.

[imagine this homily wrought in a twee, twiddly typeface superimposed over a too-saturated stock image of a tree or a waterfall, if that helps you reinforce or dismiss its message]

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Zetetic on November 25, 2020, 01:05:39 AM
I think I've probably come to the point where I reckon we've got something like 5 diagnostic labels in functional mental health than are better than nothing

Yes, possibly less than 5 even.  Transdiagnosis is the future and ultimately psychotherapy rather than the current models still too based around psychiatry and clinical psychology.   

There are problems however in that without a hard medical underpinning of mental health the social antecedents of mental health need to be more accepted and understood - however we are a sick culture that has a very poor and often aggressive response to unpicking all of this.

Personality Disorders have always been controversial and BPD especially for the reasons you mention.  I thought we were meant to be referring to it as EUPD (Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder) now, though i've seen BPD still being used all the time professionally and in general.

Buelligan

Quote from: confettiinmyhair on November 24, 2020, 09:14:59 PM
I dare say I'll be regretting decisions I've made during this situation, it's hard to know what the right ones are.

Try to make decisions based on what you know to be true, fair, just or correct.  Think in advance about what you want out of this and how/if it can be achieved.  Consider, if things don't play out as you'd like, how you can make the best, for all of you, out of those outcomes.  Don't torture yourself with imaginings and use them to build a tragedy based on supposition.  Keep records, be as calm as you can, try not to react in ways you don't choose, take good care of yourself, mentally and physically, so you're prepared and able to make the best choices available to you.  After that, you just have to let it fall as it will, knowing that you've done your best.  That's what I reckon, anyway.  Hug.

The record keeping has been helpful. It's been strange writing out a timeline and seeing the acceleration of events in our lives. Looking at this month alone, reviewing old messages and noticing a sudden shift in the tone of these messages. I've got a meeting with a local solicitor later this week, so hopefully that will be of some help.

Quote from: confettiinmyhair on November 25, 2020, 04:40:45 PM
I've got a meeting with a local solicitor later this week, so hopefully that will be of some help.

Glad to hear it, don't get too attached to the idea of keeping the house - you've got plenty of opportunity to build up a legacy for your son without involving your wife.

pancreas

Quote from: Zetetic on November 25, 2020, 01:21:25 AM
It's not a great situation, no.

Most of those labels are clearly groping at something but usually so vague and diffuse that it's of extremely low value to apply to individuals to determine how we treat them, even before we get into the practicalities of how and why those labels are applied to individuals in practice. "Conduct disorder" (i.e. "this kid is a real angry piece of shit") is a good example of this, since a) in practice it's clearly overwhelmingly applied to try to define whose problem the kid is and b) we've got good evidence that it's got at least one massive split in in genesis and how well it responds to current interventions.

What's the difference between 'anger management issues' and 'conduct disorder'? Isn't it better that diagnoses are given rather than insults? I know you think there's not a huge amount of difference in practice, but there is some at least in theory, such a label suggests there should be some treatment, of some kind. [Crazy Ex-Girlfried; A diagnosis.]

I agree that a lot of casual BPD diagnoses amount to washing one's hands of the matter—and let's not get into the youtube video you mentioned—but even that is a) better than 'manipulative destructive vindictive cunt'; b) it's maybe not anyone's fault; c) perhaps (s)he needs help.

The lack of support seems to be more of an issue than the labels. I guess you wouldn't dispute this.

Anyway, solidarity to cimh.

Zetetic

#165
Moved diagnosis stuff to another thread: https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=83787.

Zetetic


peanutbutter

The whole house for our son to inherit thing, whose idea was that? Framing buying the house in that manner?

Do people normally buy houses with that mindset rather than just "renting sucks, lets at least own the fucking thing"

bgmnts

Quote from: peanutbutter on November 25, 2020, 10:52:57 PM
The whole house for our son to inherit thing, whose idea was that? Framing buying the house in that manner?

Do people normally buy houses with that mindset rather than just "renting sucks, lets at least own the fucking thing"

"I need somewhere to pump my Filipino maid on the sly."

Hand Solo

Have you considered renting out your son? I know several monied MPs who might be interested.

I'm a very unprincipal person.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: peanutbutter on November 25, 2020, 10:52:57 PM
The whole house for our son to inherit thing, whose idea was that? Framing buying the house in that manner?

Do people normally buy houses with that mindset rather than just "renting sucks, lets at least own the fucking thing"

I think the idea of inherited wealth (especially enough to buy a property) is becoming more normalised but usually the pattern is from grandparent to parent because of the timescales involved. Inheritance tax cuts are about the only thing right-wing parties will be able to offer younger voters after they've sold everything off and continued to inflate the housing bubble.

Cold Meat Platter


Ferris


#173
Quote from: peanutbutter on November 25, 2020, 10:52:57 PM
The whole house for our son to inherit thing, whose idea was that? Framing buying the house in that manner?

Do people normally buy houses with that mindset rather than just "renting sucks, lets at least own the fucking thing"

It was a joint decision that our son would have something for his future, but also we were keen to no longer rent.

My wife has been married and divorced before, but I don't know too much about the ending of that relationship. She seems to know a lot more about the landscape of ending a marriage.

I woke up feeling dread about speaking with a solicitor. I did speak with a good friend , who has been through a divorce that's been dragging on for years. He spoke calmly about what advice I should seek. I guess, I'm wary of this becoming a war. Firing missives through legal representatives. I also feel a lot of disappointment in me from others close to me. They are not overtly saying I'm an idiot, particularly regarding the house, but make me feel that I am one. I feel naive and gullible. I think family believe that this was all planned by my wife.

Buelligan

People, most people, always like to think that they know best, they always knew best.  Let's face it, it's easy to think the worst and pat yourself merrily on the back every time you "win" by having your suspicions confirmed but does it help?  When everything's done and dusted, it's probably no more than an irritation, salt into the wound but right now, IMO, the last thing you need to get through this whole and without too much regret, is paranoia.  Don't fill your head with suspicion, resentment, pain - unless you think that will help you to make the best decisions.  Will it help you to save yourself and your son from suffering?

My advice is to not spend too much time right now reflecting on what your family thinks about your decision-making.  The past is over, all it can be used for is learning, there'll be plenty of time for that.  What's useful, IMO, right now, is to carry yourself through this as well as you possibly can.  All power to you today, old bat, stay strong.

falafel

Well said.

Stay calm, steel yourself don't fight against anyone, don't second guess, fight FOR your son and yourself.

Ferris


QDRPHNC

One of the best pieces of advice I ever read, that has ended countless arguments with my exes: let silence be your final word.

You're about to go through some tough times, and I wish you all the best with it. But things will be better on the other side, for you and your son.

Zetetic

I find "Hier stehe, ich kann nicht anders" works equally well.

holyzombiejesus

Don't want to keep bumping the thread like a rubbernecker but don't want to come over all overbearing and PM you.

Anyway, just wanted to say I hope you had a nice day with your boy today and that you're feeling relatively ok tonight. Whilst the wife stuff must be vile, my heart goes out to you so much regarding your son.