Author Topic: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get  (Read 58170 times)

Johnny Yesno

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« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 12:22:21 PM by Barry Admin »

Johnny Yesno

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2020, 03:09:56 AM »
Quote from: Socialist Voice @SocialistVoice
Past Labour leaders opposed the apartheid regime in South Africa and Israel

On the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People, Sir Keir Starmer decided to attend a right-wing conference organised by groups which defend Israel's apartheid and human rights abuses

https://mobile.twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/1333156790813552643

To my shame, I didn't know it was International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People yesterday. Starmer would have known, though, wouldn't he? This is even worse than I thought. Just about as bad as you can get, even.

Bronzy

  • This Guy's a Real Jerk!
Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2020, 03:28:57 AM »
"My mate is that guy who wrote those Goosebumps books, so I guess you could say I'm a Pal of Stine!"

Sir Keir Starmer, 2020

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2020, 03:52:55 AM »
https://mobile.twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/1333156790813552643

To my shame, I didn't know it was International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People yesterday. Starmer would have known, though, wouldn't he? This is even worse than I thought. Just about as bad as you can get, even.

Has he stopped sending those Happy (whatever this day represents)  tweets. He seemed forensically on top of that stuff at the start of his leadership.

Buelligan

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Starmer OUT, Rayner OUT, OUT, OUT OUT!
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2020, 06:14:09 AM »
https://mobile.twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/1333156790813552643

To my shame, I didn't know it was International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People yesterday. Starmer would have known, though, wouldn't he? This is even worse than I thought. Just about as bad as you can get, even.

Starmer is a stain on the Labour Party and Rayner a disgrace.  Until they go, it's finished.


This is their moment

BlodwynPig

  • The Last Living Member of COVID-20
Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2020, 07:41:26 AM »
Where Eagles Dare

Buelligan

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2020, 07:42:34 AM »
They can gtf and all.

New thread title from here: https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/uk-news/2020/11/29/starmer-says-corbyns-response-to-anti-semitism-report-as-bad-as-you-can-get/



And another thing.  Corbs didn't even "claim the issue had been "dramatically overstated for political reasons"".  He said that incidence of AS in the membership of the Labour Party had been overstated etc.  Not the same thing at all.  But who gives a fuck about words and what meaning they convey?

I mean, if we actually looked at what's being said here - if someone's going after Jez for saying that, they're arguing that AS is rife in the membership. 

Is it?  Is it Keith?  Are huge numbers of ordinary Party members, who are paying their subs and doing all the other unpaid shit the worker ants do, are tons of them raging antisemites?  Where's the proof?  Where are the investigations on which you base this?

Or was Corbyn correct in what he said.  Again.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2020, 07:44:28 AM »
But the issue was exponentially overstated for political and more nefarious reasons.

Buelligan

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2020, 07:51:33 AM »
Yes.  It was.  But if Keith is saying that Corbyn was wrong when he said that the incidence of AS in the membership was greatly overstated then he's saying that the membership is crawling with antisemites. 

If he's saying that, he should produce some evidence.  Some independent investigations proving that all these enormous numbers of people in the Party are monsters.


BlodwynPig

  • The Last Living Member of COVID-20
Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2020, 07:58:04 AM »
Yes.  It was.  But if Keith is saying that Corbyn was wrong when he said that the incidence of AS in the membership was greatly overstated then he's saying that the membership is crawling with antisemites. 

If he's saying that, he should produce some evidence.  Some independent investigations proving that all these enormous numbers of people in the Party are monsters.

Don't waste your fingers on this unless its in a penned letter to the Leader. They are good words, but rhetorical of course.

Buelligan

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2020, 08:01:37 AM »
Well, I'd like Keith to explain to the membership what the evidence is that they're hugely tainted by evil. 

BlodwynPig

  • The Last Living Member of COVID-20
Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2020, 08:06:07 AM »
Well, I'd like Keith to explain to the membership what the evidence is that they're hugely tainted by evil.

Rhetoric. He has no evidence.

Buelligan

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2020, 10:26:57 AM »
How about this rhetoric?

Quote from: Lord Peter Mandelson in the Times of Israel, today
Tony Blair's former head of communications said 'under Corbyn, the party’s brand was trashed, its organisation reduced to rubble. Nobody knew what it meant and didn’t much like it' [sic]

Lord Peter Mandelson last night warned that Jeremy Corbyn’s presence in Labour threatens to “render the party unelectable”.

His comments came during the final session of the Jewish Labour Movement’s virtual One Day Conference, held in partnership with Labour Friends of Israel.

“There still seem to be two Labour Party’s,” he said, while being interviewed by journalist Gabriel Pogrund. “A party that is recognisably mainstream with decent core values, that has inherited the tremendous social democratic achievements of successive Labour governments.

“But alongside that during the last four years has been a completely different Labour Party: A rag-bag of far-left individuals who people cannot relate to… and throughout have associated with the poison of anti-Jewish racism.

“As long as Jeremy Corbyn and the people around him are there, I think this is going to create endless confusion for the public. And while Jeremy persists in what he is doing, he is going to render the Labour Party unelectable.”

And, in case we forget, here is Mandelson speaking at a Jewish Chronicle event in 2017 about how he works every single day to remove Jeremy Corbyn from the Labour Party.

https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/lord-mandelson-corbyns-presence-threatens-to-render-the-party-unelectable/

George Oscar Bluth II

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2020, 10:59:39 AM »
Westminster voting intention:

LAB: 40% (+3)
CON: 37% (-1)
LDEM: 5% (-2)
BREX: 5% (+1)
GRN: 5% (-1)

via
@YouGov

It's going really badly lads, really need Jeremy back.

Sin Agog

  • Dogs fucked the pope; no fault of mine
Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2020, 11:05:41 AM »
Interesting how YouGov always bypasses me whenever it makes a political poll.  I knew I'd've gotten my fifty bob ten times quicker if I'd got my gammon on.

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2020, 11:11:09 AM »
It's going really badly lads, really need Jeremy back.

Yes, the country is doing very badly, thanks to Starmer's staunch, consistent support for the Tory government. Not sure if Jeremy in particular is needed, but having an opposition leader even remotely progressive - someone not a member of the neoliberal Trilateral Commission, at least - would help in resisting Johnson's oppression and murder of poor, sick, and elderly people.

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2020, 11:11:37 AM »
Westminster voting intention:

LAB: 40% (+3)
CON: 37% (-1)
LDEM: 5% (-2)
BREX: 5% (+1)
GRN: 5% (-1)

via
@YouGov

It's going really badly lads, really need Jeremy back.

The tories have run the pandemic well, have they?  Value for money?  Everyone getting looked after properly?  No problems with voting to keep kiddies starving.  Or letting their servants rape and murder with impunity?  No worries about the border on the island of Ireland?  You fucking imbecile.  You should be ashamed.

Captain Z

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2020, 11:16:48 AM »
Westminster voting intention


George Oscar Bluth II

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2020, 11:18:02 AM »
The tories have run the pandemic well, have they?  Value for money?  Everyone getting looked after properly?  No problems with voting to keep kiddies starving.  Or letting their servants rape and murder with impunity?  No worries about the border on the island of Ireland?  You fucking imbecile.  You should be ashamed.

Imagine having this level of self confidence when it was your leader who gave the Tories an 80 seat majority and you who decided anyone who suggested a change of course was some kind of traitor.

You can't blame the people who told you something was a shit idea when it turns out to be a shit idea lads, not how it works.

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2020, 11:18:25 AM »
Westminster voting intention:

LAB: 40% (+3)
CON: 37% (-1)
LDEM: 5% (-2)
BREX: 5% (+1)
GRN: 5% (-1)

This is what I mean when I talk about how some people seem to think that the end goal is for Labour to 'win' and that the poll above is somehow evidence of things going well. When you think of what the party currently stands for and represents, to celebrate them being 3 points (woo!) ahead of the tories just seems so fucking gormless.

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2020, 11:19:51 AM »
Imagine having this level of self confidence when it was your leader who gave the Tories an 80 seat majority and you who decided anyone who suggested a change of course was some kind of traitor.

You can't blame the people who told you something was a shit idea when it turns out to be a shit idea lads, not how it works.

Oh dear.

Buelligan

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2020, 11:21:40 AM »
Imagine having this level of self confidence when it was your leader who gave the Tories an 80 seat majority and you who decided anyone who suggested a change of course was some kind of traitor.

You can't blame the people who told you something was a shit idea when it turns out to be a shit idea lads, not how it works.

It's a shit idea to oppose the will of Lord Mandelson?  It's a shit idea to believe in shit like Truth, Solidarity and Loyalty?  It's a shit idea not want your country led by a bunch of shifty lying cunts?  Wake up, you stupid vain twat.

Ah but, whilst you're here, can you remind me of the numbers involved in the antisemitism amongst Labour members thing?  How many antisemites did they find amongst the membership?

George Oscar Bluth II

  • Karma: +69 / -420
Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2020, 11:28:03 AM »
This is what I mean when I talk about how some people seem to think that the end goal is for Labour to 'win' and that the poll above is somehow evidence of things going well. When you think of what the party currently stands for and represents, to celebrate them being 3 points (woo!) ahead of the tories just seems so fucking gormless.

The alternative to Labour winning is the Conservative Party, the most malevolent force in UK politics winning so yes, I would prefer Labour win.

It's a shit idea to oppose the will of Lord Mandelson?  It's a shit idea to believe in shit like Truth, Solidarity and Loyalty?  It's a shit idea not want your country led by a bunch of shifty lying cunts?  Wake up, you stupid vain twat.

A shit idea to have a party leader who was wildly unpopular and who would go on to gift the Tories an 80 seat majority, yes.

Buelligan

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2020, 11:30:01 AM »
And Labour would have won, in 2017, if it wasn't for Madelson's chums, people like Starmer, people that you supported.  A Labour government in 2017, three years ago.

Just in case you missed this, I'll ask again -

Ah but, whilst you're here, can you remind me of the numbers involved in the antisemitism amongst Labour members thing?  How many antisemites did they find amongst the membership?

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2020, 11:30:14 AM »
Imagine having this level of self confidence when it was your leader who gave the Tories an 80 seat majority and you who decided anyone who suggested a change of course was some kind of traitor.

You can't blame the people who told you something was a shit idea when it turns out to be a shit idea lads, not how it works.

What's self-confidence got to do with it? It's not being governed by scum, whether it be Tories or their equivalents in Labour.

Your "lad" supports apartheid and wants everyone who doesn't gone (despite his rather different views in the past).

Your "lad" supports backs the Covert Human Intelligence Sources bill that mandates official lawbreaking and covert surveillance on British citizens?

Your "lad" supports war crimes with impunity.

What his lead is or isn't doesn't make him anything other than what he is.

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2020, 11:33:12 AM »
The alternative to Labour winning is the Conservative Party, the most malevolent force in UK politics winning so yes, I would prefer Labour win.


As would I. That doesn't mean that I think things are going well or would go sneering on a messageboard when a party led by a cowardly toady lickspittle with no idea about the fundamental changes needed is 3 points ahead of the tories. Your willingness to blame JC for the scale of the election defeat points to you either being politically illiterate or disingenuous.

Cuellar

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2020, 11:33:44 AM »
The alternative to Labour winning is the Conservative Party, the most malevolent force in UK politics winning so yes, I would prefer Labour win.

I don't know, I know we've basically been a two-party system since forever, but we're basically in US territory here. I don't want to vote against someone, I want to vote FOR someone. And do I want to vote FOR Labour at the moment? Not really.

George Oscar Bluth II

  • Karma: +69 / -420
Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2020, 11:39:52 AM »
If you hate the Labour Party and think it's indistinguishable from the Tories you should probably leave it imo. Genuinely. Some good might even come of it.

As would I. That doesn't mean that I think things are going well or would go sneering on a messageboard when a party led by a cowardly toady lickspittle with no idea about the fundamental changes needed is 3 points ahead of the tories. Your willingness to blame JC for the scale of the election defeat points to you either being politically illiterate or disingenuous.

Hate to re-litigate Jeremy Corbyn yes or no for the billionth time but the bloke was the least popular opposition leader in recent times. You can argue about why that was,[1] you can complain that it's not fair but it doesn't change that it was true. Swap him for anyone else in autumn 2019 and I don't think the Tories get an 80 majority. https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/jeremy-corbyn-most-unpopular-opposition-leader-of-past-45-years-says-poll

I don't know, I know we've basically been a two-party system since forever, but we're basically in US territory here. I don't want to vote against someone, I want to vote FOR someone. And do I want to vote FOR Labour at the moment? Not really.

This is all fine and good but like the US we have a system where there's a certain segment of the population who decide elections. I am not in that segment. As a poster on here you are almost certainly not in that segment either. A candidate who speaks to us and our priorities, who outright says the things we want out loud isn't going to get anywhere.
 1. And I'll point out, one of the issues I had back in 2015 was that the media would have so much to go on to destroy him

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2020, 11:44:29 AM »
Imagine having this level of self confidence when it was your leader who gave the Tories an 80 seat majority and you who decided anyone who suggested a change of course was some kind of traitor.

You can't blame the people who told you something was a shit idea when it turns out to be a shit idea lads, not how it works.

It's been gone over a million times but Labour being temporarily ahead in one poll says nothing about Starmer or Corbyn, or how left or centrist the party is. We all know that any of the leadership candidates, whether that be RLB or Nandy, would be in roughly the same position now, because Labour is a brand.

Corbyn was ahead in 2019 too, but then faced an election 1) during Boris Johnson's honeymoon period; 2) in the context of Brexit which could only have produced a better result if Labour's messaging matched the Tories, I.e. "we will also get Brexit done", which Starmer is chiefly responsible for taking off the table; and 3) during a gloomy winter when no one wanted to hear about politics anymore, no one wanted an election, and no one had much optimism, which is obviously going to hurt a person / party which requires people to have faith that altering the status quo will work, not make things worse.

The latter point is one of the key reasons 2017 was successful - the festival appearances, the weather, people being out on the street / in the garden and happy to talk to canvassers, all created an optimistic atmosphere and an appetite for change. That is in stark contrast to 2019 when the prevailing mood was exhaustion and resignation (I was frustrated to hear Labour supporting in-laws say after the election "I understand though, we need to just get brexit over with now").

The situation we're in now is a totally different context; cruelly the reverse of Brexit, a context in which it's much easier to make a case for Corbyn's policies, if Labour could be arsed to do it. That Labour are ahead in this context is a surprise to no one.

But let's say that you have a crystal ball and can see that if an election was held tomorrow with Starmer as leader or with Corbyn, and both would win, which would you choose? Starmer is not interested in the change we need. He won't regulate the media; he won't transform the curriculum; he's already proving that he prefers there to be less democracy. So all the corruption and ignorance in this country will go unchecked and he'll just be keeping the seat warm for the next decade of Tory rule. That's not good enough.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 11:57:37 AM by colacentral »

Buelligan

  • STOP being afraid
Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2020, 11:46:13 AM »
Absolutely!

If you hate the Labour Party and think it's indistinguishable from the Tories you should probably leave it imo. Genuinely. Some good might even come of it.

Hate to re-litigate Jeremy Corbyn yes or no for the billionth time but the bloke was the least popular opposition leader in recent times. You can argue about why that was,[1] you can complain that it's not fair but it doesn't change that it was true. Swap him for anyone else in autumn 2019 and I don't think the Tories get an 80 majority. https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/jeremy-corbyn-most-unpopular-opposition-leader-of-past-45-years-says-poll

This is all fine and good but like the US we have a system where there's a certain segment of the population who decide elections. I am not in that segment. As a poster on here you are almost certainly not in that segment either. A candidate who speaks to us and our priorities, who outright says the things we want out loud isn't going to get anywhere.
 1. And I'll point out, one of the issues I had back in 2015 was that the media would have so much to go on to destroy him

As long as you're winning though eh?  You're like a sectarian, so busy beating the drum like your daddy before you, you forget that it's not the people on the other side of the barrier with their feet on your neck.  Starmer, Mandelson, they're just as dirty and polluted as Johnson.  There's no difference.  I'm in this game to get rid of them all and I'm not going to give up because I might not win in my lifetime, some things are more important than that. 

When you have time, I'd like an answer to this

Ah but, whilst you're here, can you remind me of the numbers involved in the antisemitism amongst Labour members thing?  How many antisemites did they find amongst the membership?

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