Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get

[Buelligan]

By the way, I saw this group, Labour in Exile and thought of all of you (almost all of you).

They're having a founding conference, next Saturday, the 27th, which you can sign up for on the website.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Siena Rodgers on twitter:

And from Anna herself:



https://twitter.com/CllrAnnaRothery/status/1364251466031108097

[thugler]

you won't pal. so who's really giving up the next decade?

Rubbish. The Labour membership has been fighting for policy positions on many fronts for a long time, many have been successful and are now more or less settled policy. There's absolutely no reason why electoral reform can't be another. As mentioned Clive Lewis (who was my favoured leadership candidate) has been banging on about this for a while as a priority, so it's hardly a totally fringe thing that could never happen.

[thugler]

Not if a left party is able to appeal to a broader local identity than Labour now is.

There's no way forward in "England", of course. That should be obvious now.

I would posit that this is much less likely than getting a Labour government that has a policy of electoral reform. There is an argument for it on both wings of the party.

For now, in most places a new party would just split the vote and let the tories in, and that's assuming it's pretty successful, which is unlikely. At best you're looking at a few seats, which is going to make little difference. The Labour party isn't going away.

[BlodwynPig]

Neither is the Tory party.

[jobotic]

Rothery's not even 'Corbynite' though, soft left and pro-unions, but nothing that would frighten the horses.

That's enough, unions should only exist to pump money to Starmer and have their leadership back him without consulting their membership who definitely would not have done.

She probably won't say that schools are safe.

[Buelligan]

She was endorsed by Corbyn.

For now, in most places a new party would just split the vote and let the tories in...

They are in.  They're appalling, have been for over a decade.  They are in. 

How is this inward-focused purging, waving through all the tory shit, how is that going to get us into a position to create electoral reform? 

[BlodwynPig]

She was endorsed by Corbyn.

They are in.  They're appalling, have been for over a decade.  They are in.

Give him a break, he still thinks Oasis are riding high in the charts

[thugler]

She was endorsed by Corbyn.

They are in.  They're appalling, have been for over a decade.  They are in.

Yes, but It would let them in in MORE places than they are already. A bigger majority.

[Buelligan]

A bigger majority?  They have an eighty seat majority.  They don't need a bigger one, especially with Keith abstaining on stuff like Spycops.  They can do whatever they like.

[thugler]

A bigger majority?  They have an eighty seat majority.  They don't need a bigger one, especially with Keith abstaining on stuff like Spycops.  They can do whatever they like.

But the idea is surely to reduce their majority rather than help increase it

[Buelligan]

Reducing it really wouldn't be enough, unless it was reduced to zero but again, give the absolute fucking chaotic self-defeating inward-looking purging antidemocratic shambles that is the current Labour Party, how do you imagine we even reduce that majority?  How do you think we'll get into government to enable us to change the electoral system?

This article in the Morning Star's worth a read - https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/e/labours-anti-democratic-antics-liverpool-have-national-significance

[BlodwynPig]

But the idea is surely to reduce their majority rather than help increase it

Whatabuttery

[thugler]

how do you imagine we even reduce that majority?  How do you think we'll get into government to enable us to change the electoral system?

Only via the labour party I'm afraid, so however shit it is we should continue to try and effect it. There are still good labour MP's,
and good people in the membership. A split will only be detrimental.

[Zetetic]

Yes, but It would let them in in MORE places than they are already.

Being in Westminster means that they're everywhere.

There is no way forward in Westminster.

[Buelligan]

Only via the labour party I'm afraid, so however shit it is we should continue to try and effect it. There are still good labour MP's,
and good people in the membership. A split will only be detrimental.

I know that you mean well but have you thought about what that means?  How do you really believe the Labour Party can get into government?  What has Starmer done since his election that has made you believe the chance of Labour forming a government is good, that anything he's done is improving things?  What have you seen, something the members have achieved since his election, that leads you to believe remaining in is getting the left anywhere?

[Kelvin]

What have you seen, something the members have achieved since his election, that leads you to believe remaining in is getting the left anywhere?

I don't think that's a fair question after such a short time. Things were bad for the left under Blair, and we eventually got Corbyn. It's not a quick or easy process, we all knew that before, but a lot of people seem to have forgotten it completely in the wake of 2019. They'll inflict the most pain at this stage of the process. We'll see the fewest victories. But just by having a vote, filling some internal positions with lefties, that's something. Or at least it might be, if another opportunity slips through years from now. And if it doesn't.... well, what was the alternative? Fuck all, right now. Fuck. All.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

There was pent up demand for a left leaning movement in the UK and Corbyn gave voice to it, legitimised it as a mainstream view.

[jobotic]

Starmer doesn't want to get into government, he wants to make sure that if Labour ever do. despite his efforts, that it won't do any damage to the Murdochs of this world.

It's the only explanation for his actions.

[peanutbutter]

Starmer doesn't want to get into government, he wants to make sure that if Labour ever do. despite his efforts, that it won't do any damage to the Murdochs of this world.

It's the only explanation for his actions.

I dunno, I still think there's a decent chance he was just a convenient fool to be the puppet of the Blairite wing because everyone thought he had good optics and that was seemingly more than anyone else was offering cos his haircut won over the bulk of the party but his lack of experience in politics made him someone who could be easily played.

Yet to see anything from him himself to suggest he's anything other than absolutely shite at all this. I'd feel a bit better if I felt like there was some kind of actual drive towards something in the middle of it all tbh.




He's definitely someone who has an initially very impressive aura that doesn't last at all and it's already getting to the point where he's somehow just looking silly in any still shot I see of him

[Goldentony]

he looks like the singer of The Beat in every photo which is annoying as fuck because I love that band and hate this clowns arse

[idunnosomename]

zip-up fleece

[Blumf]

he looks like the singer of The Beat in every photo which is annoying as fuck because I love that band and hate this clowns arse

Keir in the bathroom
Don't talk free
Selection is locked
By Blair and me

[Goldentony]

can I take you to a restaurant
thats been fucking flattened
by a massive scud
while people were eating

[EOLAN]

He's definitely someone who has an initially very impressive aura that doesn't last at all and it's already getting to the point where he's somehow just looking silly in any still shot I see of him

Haha
That cow legitimately has such better poise and posture compared to Captain Forensic.

[idunnosomename]

that cow is pretty incredible to be fair to sir action pants

[Fambo Number Mive]

The cow says "Moo Labour"

[BlodwynPig]

I don't think that's a fair question after such a short time. Things were bad for the left under Blair, and we eventually got Corbyn. It's not a quick or easy process, we all knew that before, but a lot of people seem to have forgotten it completely in the wake of 2019. They'll inflict the most pain at this stage of the process. We'll see the fewest victories. But just by having a vote, filling some internal positions with lefties, that's something. Or at least it might be, if another opportunity slips through years from now. And if it doesn't.... well, what was the alternative? Fuck all, right now. Fuck. All.

Optimist. I'll be dead when Corbyn rises again and the planet will be ashes.

[BlodwynPig]

[Paul Calf]

This can't be fixed from within the Westminster parliamentary system: stay in the Labour Party, leave the Labour Party, do what you want. None of it will make any significant difference. We're a one-party managed democracy now.

Don't give up. We are now fighting a hostile occupying force. Alter your strategies.