Author Topic: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get  (Read 93832 times)

Buelligan

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Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2910 on: February 23, 2021, 07:56:56 PM »
By the way, I saw this group, Labour in Exile and thought of all of you (almost all of you).

They're having a founding conference, next Saturday, the 27th, which you can sign up for on the website.


Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2912 on: February 23, 2021, 09:08:37 PM »
you won't pal. so who's really giving up the next decade?

Rubbish. The Labour membership has been fighting for policy positions on many fronts for a long time, many have been successful and are now more or less settled policy. There's absolutely no reason why electoral reform can't be another. As mentioned Clive Lewis (who was my favoured leadership candidate) has been banging on about this for a while as a priority, so it's hardly a totally fringe thing that could never happen.

Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2913 on: February 23, 2021, 09:14:53 PM »
Not if a left party is able to appeal to a broader local identity than Labour now is.

There's no way forward in "England", of course. That should be obvious now.

I would posit that this is much less likely than getting a Labour government that has a policy of electoral reform. There is an argument for it on both wings of the party.

For now, in most places a new party would just split the vote and let the tories in, and that's assuming it's pretty successful, which is unlikely. At best you're looking at a few seats, which is going to make little difference. The Labour party isn't going away.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2914 on: February 23, 2021, 09:15:50 PM »
Neither is the Tory party.

Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2915 on: February 23, 2021, 09:17:55 PM »
Rothery's not even 'Corbynite' though, soft left and pro-unions, but nothing that would frighten the horses.

That's enough, unions should only exist to pump money to Starmer and have their leadership back him without consulting their membership who definitely would not have done.

She probably won't say that schools are safe.

Buelligan

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Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2916 on: February 23, 2021, 10:18:09 PM »
She was endorsed by Corbyn.

For now, in most places a new party would just split the vote and let the tories in...

They are in.  They're appalling, have been for over a decade.  They are in. 

How is this inward-focused purging, waving through all the tory shit, how is that going to get us into a position to create electoral reform? 

BlodwynPig

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Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2917 on: February 23, 2021, 10:19:50 PM »
She was endorsed by Corbyn.

They are in.  They're appalling, have been for over a decade.  They are in.

Give him a break, he still thinks Oasis are riding high in the charts

Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2918 on: February 23, 2021, 10:20:08 PM »
She was endorsed by Corbyn.

They are in.  They're appalling, have been for over a decade.  They are in.

Yes, but It would let them in in MORE places than they are already. A bigger majority.

Buelligan

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Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2919 on: February 23, 2021, 10:22:14 PM »
A bigger majority?  They have an eighty seat majority.  They don't need a bigger one, especially with Keith abstaining on stuff like Spycops.  They can do whatever they like.

Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2920 on: February 23, 2021, 10:29:02 PM »
A bigger majority?  They have an eighty seat majority.  They don't need a bigger one, especially with Keith abstaining on stuff like Spycops.  They can do whatever they like.

But the idea is surely to reduce their majority rather than help increase it

Buelligan

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Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2921 on: February 23, 2021, 10:33:04 PM »
Reducing it really wouldn't be enough, unless it was reduced to zero but again, give the absolute fucking chaotic self-defeating inward-looking purging antidemocratic shambles that is the current Labour Party, how do you imagine we even reduce that majority?  How do you think we'll get into government to enable us to change the electoral system?

This article in the Morning Star's worth a read - https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/e/labours-anti-democratic-antics-liverpool-have-national-significance

BlodwynPig

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Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2922 on: February 23, 2021, 10:36:37 PM »
But the idea is surely to reduce their majority rather than help increase it

Whatabuttery

Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2923 on: February 23, 2021, 10:44:40 PM »
how do you imagine we even reduce that majority?  How do you think we'll get into government to enable us to change the electoral system?



Only via the labour party I'm afraid, so however shit it is we should continue to try and effect it. There are still good labour MP's,
and good people in the membership. A split will only be detrimental.

Zetetic

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Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2924 on: February 23, 2021, 11:04:18 PM »
Yes, but It would let them in in MORE places than they are already.
Being in Westminster means that they're everywhere.

There is no way forward in Westminster.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 11:23:19 PM by Zetetic »

Buelligan

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Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2925 on: February 23, 2021, 11:22:30 PM »

Only via the labour party I'm afraid, so however shit it is we should continue to try and effect it. There are still good labour MP's,
and good people in the membership. A split will only be detrimental.

I know that you mean well but have you thought about what that means?  How do you really believe the Labour Party can get into government?  What has Starmer done since his election that has made you believe the chance of Labour forming a government is good, that anything he's done is improving things?  What have you seen, something the members have achieved since his election, that leads you to believe remaining in is getting the left anywhere?

Kelvin

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Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2926 on: February 23, 2021, 11:52:51 PM »
What have you seen, something the members have achieved since his election, that leads you to believe remaining in is getting the left anywhere?

I don't think that's a fair question after such a short time. Things were bad for the left under Blair, and we eventually got Corbyn. It's not a quick or easy process, we all knew that before, but a lot of people seem to have forgotten it completely in the wake of 2019. They'll inflict the most pain at this stage of the process. We'll see the fewest victories. But just by having a vote, filling some internal positions with lefties, that's something. Or at least it might be, if another opportunity slips through years from now. And if it doesn't.... well, what was the alternative? Fuck all, right now. Fuck. All.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 12:48:44 AM by Kelvin »

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Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2927 on: February 24, 2021, 12:01:06 AM »
There was pent up demand for a left leaning movement in the UK and Corbyn gave voice to it, legitimised it as a mainstream view.

Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2928 on: February 24, 2021, 12:09:59 AM »
Starmer doesn't want to get into government, he wants to make sure that if Labour ever do. despite his efforts, that it won't do any damage to the Murdochs of this world.

It's the only explanation for his actions.

Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2929 on: February 24, 2021, 12:49:52 AM »
Starmer doesn't want to get into government, he wants to make sure that if Labour ever do. despite his efforts, that it won't do any damage to the Murdochs of this world.

It's the only explanation for his actions.
I dunno, I still think there's a decent chance he was just a convenient fool to be the puppet of the Blairite wing because everyone thought he had good optics and that was seemingly more than anyone else was offering cos his haircut won over the bulk of the party but his lack of experience in politics made him someone who could be easily played.

Yet to see anything from him himself to suggest he's anything other than absolutely shite at all this. I'd feel a bit better if I felt like there was some kind of actual drive towards something in the middle of it all tbh.




He's definitely someone who has an initially very impressive aura that doesn't last at all and it's already getting to the point where he's somehow just looking silly in any still shot I see of him


Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2930 on: February 24, 2021, 12:54:37 AM »
he looks like the singer of The Beat in every photo which is annoying as fuck because I love that band and hate this clowns arse

Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2931 on: February 24, 2021, 12:57:57 AM »
zip-up fleece

Blumf

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Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2932 on: February 24, 2021, 01:07:00 AM »
he looks like the singer of The Beat in every photo which is annoying as fuck because I love that band and hate this clowns arse

Keir in the bathroom
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Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2933 on: February 24, 2021, 01:08:20 AM »
can I take you to a restaurant
thats been fucking flattened
by a massive scud
while people were eating

Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2934 on: February 24, 2021, 01:51:10 AM »

He's definitely someone who has an initially very impressive aura that doesn't last at all and it's already getting to the point where he's somehow just looking silly in any still shot I see of him



Haha
 That cow legitimately has such better poise and posture compared to Captain Forensic.

Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2935 on: February 24, 2021, 02:20:25 AM »
that cow is pretty incredible to be fair to sir action pants

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2936 on: February 24, 2021, 08:40:53 AM »
The cow says "Moo Labour"

BlodwynPig

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Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2937 on: February 24, 2021, 08:42:08 AM »
I don't think that's a fair question after such a short time. Things were bad for the left under Blair, and we eventually got Corbyn. It's not a quick or easy process, we all knew that before, but a lot of people seem to have forgotten it completely in the wake of 2019. They'll inflict the most pain at this stage of the process. We'll see the fewest victories. But just by having a vote, filling some internal positions with lefties, that's something. Or at least it might be, if another opportunity slips through years from now. And if it doesn't.... well, what was the alternative? Fuck all, right now. Fuck. All.

Optimist. I'll be dead when Corbyn rises again and the planet will be ashes.

BlodwynPig

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Re: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #2939 on: February 24, 2021, 08:51:03 AM »
This can't be fixed from within the Westminster parliamentary system: stay in the Labour Party, leave the Labour Party, do what you want. None of it will make any significant difference. We're a one-party managed democracy now.

Don't give up. We are now fighting a hostile occupying force. Alter your strategies.

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