Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get

[NoSleep]

Is gaining political power only possible via the Palace of Westminster?

Did he not say "by whatever means"?

It would be helpful for advice rather than the constant questions if you are implying alternative strategies. Just say what you mean.

[Johnny Yesno]

What actually has to happen for left wing people remaining in the Labour to finally get out?

I don't know yet, but I'm not leaving while there's still the likes of McD, Burgon, Sultana, Butler, etc. who need our support.

You'll note that none of these are soppy whingers but people with the nerve to deal with the situation as it is.

[Endicott]

I don't know yet, but I'm not leaving while there's still the likes of McD, Burgon, Sultana, Butler, etc. who need our support.

You'll note that none of these are soppy whingers but people with the nerve to deal with the situation as it is.

Abso-fuckin-lutely.

Crowdfunded and union funded legal action is going to fuck with Starmer and Evans, who are in a precarious position because what they are doing is against the LP constitution. This will eventually allow existing party infrastructure to be properly co-opted to a left wing platform, if there are enough members left to vote for it. It's the gagging of CLPs voices which is going to galvanise CLPs to take action.

This is an actual plan, which is actually being put into practice. I don't see anyone offering any realistic alternative. What I do see is plenty of calls to leave and to dishearten the very people who are trying to do something about this. It's no surprise to me then, that these people are getting pissed off.

[Buelligan]

The idea of staying has appeal but is it working?  My own view is that all righteous members and CLPs should force them to suspend us.  All of us.  That's solidarity.  A democratic voice.  I don't see it happening though.  I'm not sure the membership have the balls any more.

If Burgon and Sultana, McDonnell and Butler, all stood, shoulder to shoulder with Corbyn and all suspended members and CLPs (now whilst we still have them) and forced him to suspend them.  If we forced Starmer and Rayner to suspend thousands and thousands of us, if we took them to court.  That would make the papers, that would show every disengaged voter out there ticking the box exactly which side of the line their prospective MP stands on with regard to freedom of speech, freedom of association, equality, legality and democracy.

We recognise Starmer's failure, in the national conversation, to build and frame narrative, stating Labour's position, challenging the tories.  What are we doing?  We need to build that public discussion, that thought revolution, show the country what is happening behind closed doors.  Mass suspensions now.  Force their hand.

[Paul Calf]

No, I'd rather you share your "imaginative" alternative strategies as we are so sadly behind you in this area. But you only seem happy to spread your message of total doom.

I'm not about to openly suggest that on a public forum, am I?

[Paul Calf]

If Burgon and Sultana, McDonnell and Butler, all stood, shoulder to shoulder with Corbyn and all suspended members and CLPs (now whilst we still have them) and forced him to suspend them.  If we forced Starmer and Rayner to suspend thousands and thousands of us, if we took them to court.  That would make the papers, that would show every disengaged voter out there ticking the box exactly which side of the line their prospective MP stands on with regard to freedom of speech, freedom of association, equality, legality and democracy.

We recognise Starmer's failure, in the national conversation, to build and frame narrative.  What are we doing?  We need to build that public revolution, show the country what is happening behind closed doors.  Mass suspensions now.  Force their hand.

It would certainly show that the Labour Party is fatally, mortally wounded.

[NoSleep]

I'm not about to openly suggest that on a public forum, am I?

So you have no answers. Just fuck off then.

[holyzombiejesus]

I don't know yet, but I'm not leaving while there's still the likes of McD, Burgon, Sultana, Butler, etc. who need our support.

Me too. Whilst we still have the decent Labour MPs who defied the whip re the spycops and torture bills, and the members of the NEC that we elected who have expressed anger about the Liverpool mayor sham, I'm hanging on in there. To be honest, I'm relatively happy to pay £5 a month to be able to stand with Zarah Sultana and John McDonnell. I've said this loads of times before but I'm really glad that the likes of Corbyn and Abbott didn't flounce during the New Labour years.

If it does come down to conference to ratify David Evans' appointment, and the left are able and allowed to stop that, all the better.

[Buelligan]

It would certainly show that the Labour Party is fatally, mortally wounded.

But it isn't mortally wounded.  It can only die when we, all members, allow that, choose that.  What's happening now is a fight for it body and soul.  Most people are trying their damnedest to come up with a way to win.

The desperation and loss is coming, I'm afraid, from the lack of communication, strategy and action of our leaders, we need a unifying voice, from the Left, telling us how to unite and push. 

[Zetetic]

It would be helpful for advice rather than the constant questions if you are implying alternative strategies. Just say what you mean.

Local direct action groups. Renters unions etc. Absolutely not incompatible with Labour, of course.

Local political groups, emphasising geographical inequality and failure of England and Westminster/British political setup. Incompatible with Labour. Better chance to bring together materially and socially disparate groups than Labour now has. First steps in building political power away from Westminster.

Both of these are, I appreciate, in the immediate term aiming at something far smaller than a 2019 Labour victory was.

[chveik]

an armed revolution

[NoSleep]

Local direct action groups. Renters unions etc. Absolutely not incompatible with Labour, of course.

Local political groups, emphasising geographical inequality and failure of England and Westminster/British political setup. Incompatible with Labour. Better chance to bring together materially and socially disparate groups than Labour now has. First steps in building political power away from Westminster.

Both of these are, I appreciate, in the immediate term aiming at something far smaller than a 2019 Labour victory was.

In other words they do not exclude you from remaining within the party or that it is of no point to remain a member.

[NoSleep]

an armed revolution

Enter the edgelords.

[chveik]

Enter the marxists.

[NoSleep]

Enter the marxists edgelords.

[king_tubby]

Labour have said they will oppose the Tories raising corporation tax and imposing a windfall tax on companies who have seen a large increase in profits due to COVID.

[thugler]

I'm not about to openly suggest that on a public forum, am I?

Removed image

[thugler]

Local direct action groups. Renters unions etc. Absolutely not incompatible with Labour, of course.

Local political groups, emphasising geographical inequality and failure of England and Westminster/British political setup. Incompatible with Labour. Better chance to bring together materially and socially disparate groups than Labour now has. First steps in building political power away from Westminster.

Both of these are, I appreciate, in the immediate term aiming at something far smaller than a 2019 Labour victory was.

What fucking tosh.

Local political groups and renters unions aren't going to get poltical power on the level required. Endless tory government will have the power to utterly neuter them anyway if they did.

Aiming smaller is not really an option, it's an emergency right now and we need to follow the most likely route to success which is always going to be the Labour party until we get electoral reform.

[NoSleep]

Nah, fair do's, Thugler. You don't have to leave the Labour Party to be involved with any of the above.

[thugler]

Labour have said they will oppose the Tories raising corporation tax and imposing a windfall tax on companies who have seen a large increase in profits due to COVID.

Yeah this sort of crazy shit is exactly why he has no chance whatsoever of being leader in 2024. It's falling apart already.

Edit; IMAGE IS TOO FUCKING LARGE

It's pledge fucking 1, and written with no ambiguity whatsoever.

[Buelligan]

Can you resize your images please?

Also be a bit more polite to Zetetic, he's not being rude to you.

[NoSleep]

Ah, but economic justice for who?

[thugler]

Nah, fair do's, Thugler. You don't have to leave the Labour Party to be involved with any of the above.

Exactly, do all of that AND try to influence Labour policy and get them in power.

[Paul Calf]

What fucking tosh.

Local political groups and renters unions aren't going to get poltical power on the level required. Endless tory government will have the power to utterly neuter them anyway if they did.

Aiming smaller is not really an option, it's an emergency right now and we need to follow the most likely route to success which is always going to be the Labour party until we get electoral reform.

You're just being a dick now.

[NoSleep]

Exactly, do all of that AND try to influence Labour policy and get them in power.

Which is why Zetetic said that none of that was incompatible with Labour.

[thugler]

Well I'm fed up of this 'all hope is gone and democracy is dead' stuff being trotted out every 5 minutes. It's counterproductive

[NoSleep]

Don't get Zetetic mixed up with the naysayers.

[thugler]

I apologise, I'm just pissed off.

[king_tubby]

100 pages, we need a new thread.

Labour Party - Kieth is a ham faced cunt

[Buelligan]

Please start it.  That would be perfect.

Well I'm fed up of this 'all hope is gone and democracy is dead' stuff being trotted out every 5 minutes. It's counterproductive

How does attacking people fix that?  If people feel defeated or angry, does attacking them help?  I won't even bother to address the Zetetic thing because you don't appear to understand what he said.

Virtually everyone who posts here is a good socialist.  If they're feeling pushed beyond the limit of tolerance that should raise some questions.  Questions that will not be resolved by getting angry with them.

Especially you getting angry with them.  It wasn't so long ago you were getting angry with people for not supporting Starmer.