Author Topic: Labour Party - Just about as bad as you can get  (Read 46316 times)

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2020, 11:49:37 AM »
If you hate the Labour Party and think it's indistinguishable from the Tories you should probably leave it imo. Genuinely. Some good might even come of it.

Hate to re-litigate Jeremy Corbyn yes or no for the billionth time but the bloke was the least popular opposition leader in recent times. You can argue about why that was,[1] you can complain that it's not fair but it doesn't change that it was true. Swap him for anyone else in autumn 2019 and I don't think the Tories get an 80 majority. https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/jeremy-corbyn-most-unpopular-opposition-leader-of-past-45-years-says-poll

This is all fine and good but like the US we have a system where there's a certain segment of the population who decide elections. I am not in that segment. As a poster on here you are almost certainly not in that segment either. A candidate who speaks to us and our priorities, who outright says the things we want out loud isn't going to get anywhere.
 1. And I'll point out, one of the issues I had back in 2015 was that the media would have so much to go on to destroy him

You're not really engaging with why people are pissed off with Starmer, it's policy and political direction. He made pledges and has gone back on them. Corbyn was liked because of the policies he advocated, most of which are individually very popular if you ask people seperately to the issue of his personal popularity. On top of that, he looks to be attacking the left of the party for no reason. The membership voted for him based on the idea that he was going to keep major policies from the manifesto he had pledged to, when that's already in tatters what reason was there to vote for him? that he isn't Corbyn?

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2020, 11:49:56 AM »
The alternative to Labour winning is the Conservative Party, the most malevolent force in UK politics winning so yes, I would prefer Labour win.

A shit idea to have a party leader who was wildly unpopular and who would go on to gift the Tories an 80 seat majority, yes.

How much different from the Tories would a Labour government headed by Keir Starmer be? If Labour wins in 2024, will it be a carbon copy of New Labour and bring in more privatisation of the public services and start another war?

Quote
This is all fine and good but like the US we have a system where there's a certain segment of the population who decide elections. I am not in that segment. As a poster on here you are almost certainly not in that segment either. A candidate who speaks to us and our priorities, who outright says the things we want out loud isn't going to get anywhere.

I'm not sure who this segment of the population who decides elections are but it would be better to stick to what we believe and try and convince this segment that our priorities are the right ones rather than just trying to give this segment what they want. Because if you do that, either you abandon all the pledges you made during the election (having moved the Overton window further to the right) or you do what Blair did and throw the left a few bones and then carry on governing as Tories with red rosettes.

Labour should also be campaigning for the rights of the most vulnerable in this society. When's the last time Keir Starmer went on a march against welfare benefit cuts or for the rights of disabled people mistreated in "care homes", for example.

Also, the next election is in 2024. What is the Labour Party going to do to help improve the country between now and 2024?


Old Nehamkin

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2020, 11:55:55 AM »
There's really not any point trying to engage G.O.B. seriously about any of this. As always he just wants to goad folk into calling him a cunt so he can indulgently perform his standard adult-in-the-room schtick. It's a very old dance and there's not a shred of good faith in it.

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2020, 11:58:22 AM »
Westminster voting intention


ELECT HER YES

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2020, 11:58:45 AM »
How much different from the Tories would a Labour government headed by Keir Starmer be? If Labour wins in 2024, will it be a carbon copy of New Labour and bring in more privatisation of the public services and start another war?

I doubt a Starmer led Labour would be a carbon copy of the Blair years, but I don't think that's such a high bar. We should absolutely aspire to better than that and there are urgent challenges that we have no choice but to deal with. A green new deal is an essential policy. Also there's the question of whether Blairism or Starmerism would be a winning strategy anyway. I don't think there's much evidence that the electorate is crying out for centrism any more than they were for Corbyn, who's loss was more due to his own unpopularity in addition to brexit than it was to do with his key policies.

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2020, 12:02:34 PM »
This is all fine and good but like the US we have a system where there's a certain segment of the population who decide elections. I am not in that segment. As a poster on here you are almost certainly not in that segment either. A candidate who speaks to us and our priorities, who outright says the things we want out loud isn't going to get anywhere.

Not sure about this. Corbyn was 'saying the things we want out loud' in 2017 and he didn't do badly. Also not sure what this implies: you say that anyone espousing left wing policies isn't going to get anywhere, so was Labour's performance in the last election the fault of Corbyn's personal unpopularity or Labour's policies? Surely it doesn't matter who Labour has as a leader if it's left wing ideas as such that make the party unpopular.

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2020, 12:07:51 PM »
I'm not sure who this segment of the population who decides elections are

Maybe you should do some elementary reading on how the UK political system works then. You might discover swing seats and the fact that a load of old cunts in their 50s are the ones who decide our elections. Which is in itself a good anti-starmer argument.

Also, the next election is in 2024. What is the Labour Party going to do to help improve the country between now and 2024?

This seems an unfair bar to hold a party to when they're facing an 80 seat majority.

As long as you're winning though eh?  You're like a sectarian, so busy beating the drum like your daddy before you, you forget that it's not the people on the other side of the barrier with their feet on your neck.

I actually have lots of criticisms of Starmer, many of which have been made in reply to me. Not a sectarian for him at all, definitely open to arguments that he's the wrong guy, definitely have a feeling he'll get pulled to bits in 2024 over some combo of his time as DPP/lack of charisma/some invented culture war shit.

But let's say that you have a crystal ball and can see that if an election was held tomorrow with Starmer as leader or with Corbyn, and both would win, which would you choose? Starmer is not interested in the change we need. He won't regulate the media; he won't transform the curriculum; he's already proving that he prefers there to be less democracy. So all the corruption and ignorance in this country will go unchecked and he'll just be keeping the seat warm for the next decade of Tory rule. That's not good enough.

I mean, I think at the basic can-he-do-the-actual-job level, like Boris Johnson, Jeremy Corbyn isn't equipped to be Prime Minister. We need to take a long hard look at a political system that turned up the two of them as the main candidates for PM imo.

At base I think Starmer's domestic agenda is mostly irrelevant if he doesn't have a commitment to some form of proportional representation in it. That's what the country needs and all kinds of positive change flows from it. Not least, the ability for there to be openly competing parties of the left and centre left with their own, open agendas.

Not sure about this. Corbyn was 'saying the things we want out loud' in 2017 and he didn't do badly. Also not sure what this implies: you say that anyone espousing left wing policies isn't going to get anywhere, so was Labour's performance in the last election the fault of Corbyn's personal unpopularity or Labour's policies? Surely it doesn't matter who Labour has as a leader if it's left wing ideas as such that make the party unpopular.

Except the gap in 2017 was only 800,000 votes but Labour were still 60odd seats behind the Tories and a long, long way off being able to form a government alone. Awful to say it but there were a lot of wasted votes in '17. The 20,000 plus majorities in Bristol, Liverpool and London just aren't useful, under our current system.

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2020, 12:09:12 PM »
For many of the centrists both high up and at local level, the politics don't matter anyway. They'd never dream of engaging with trade unions for example. It's a club, in which all the members get to feel that they are clever and righteous, and any efforts they make are towards getting rid of the disruptive club members. Tories don't matter, they have their own club.

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2020, 12:09:16 PM »
Not sure about this. Corbyn was 'saying the things we want out loud' in 2017 and he didn't do badly. Also not sure what this implies: you say that anyone espousing left wing policies isn't going to get anywhere, so was Labour's performance in the last election the fault of Corbyn's personal unpopularity or Labour's policies? Surely it doesn't matter who Labour has as a leader if it's left wing ideas as such that make the party unpopular.

I think there is a point in there about focus and presentation of policies. The 2019 manifesto was fucking amazing, but it probably wasn't beneficial that it had so much in it. Would've been better to endlessly bang on about 3 or 4 key policies that are really popular. The tories had basically 1 message only and that's all that said. But the idea that some of those manifesto policies weren't super popular and would only have helped our hopes of winning the elections is wrong. In a potential Starmer election, unless he has policies to actually stand for then he's going to lose badly even if he has the media onside a bit more, just for different reasons.

Buelligan

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2020, 12:13:10 PM »
...

You forgot to answer this

Ah but, whilst you're here, can you remind me of the numbers involved in the antisemitism amongst Labour members thing?  How many antisemites did they find amongst the membership?

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2020, 12:13:13 PM »
At base I think Starmer's domestic agenda is mostly irrelevant if he doesn't have a commitment to some form of proportional representation in it.


He absolutely doesn't support this.

In fact, the only Labour MP's I've heard who've given this support are on the left.

George Oscar Bluth II

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2020, 12:18:17 PM »
You're not really engaging with why people are pissed off with Starmer, it's policy and political direction. He made pledges and has gone back on them. Corbyn was liked because of the policies he advocated, most of which are individually very popular if you ask people seperately to the issue of his personal popularity. On top of that, he looks to be attacking the left of the party for no reason. The membership voted for him based on the idea that he was going to keep major policies from the manifesto he had pledged to, when that's already in tatters what reason was there to vote for him? that he isn't Corbyn?

My base assumption with Starmer is that once we get to 2024 the agenda put to the electorate actually will be pretty good but that in getting there he's going to have loud fights with the left. Disowning Jeremy Corbyn and making sure people notice it is probably part of the strategy.

He absolutely doesn't support this.

In fact, the only Labour MP's I've heard who've given this support are on the left.

I mean, pretty much the only Labour MP saying this stuff is Clive Lewis so I don't hold out much hope for wider adoption. Even under Corbyn it never went further than "abolish the Lords, more devolution" which is just standard stuff isn't it. Labour is too tribal to see how important ditching our stupid electoral system is to the country in the long term.

Buelligan

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2020, 12:20:30 PM »
Don't forget to answer this

Ah but, whilst you're here, can you remind me of the numbers involved in the antisemitism amongst Labour members thing?  How many antisemites did they find amongst the membership?

Fambo Number Mive

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2020, 12:22:13 PM »
Quote
Maybe you should do some elementary reading on how the UK political system works then. You might discover swing seats and the fact that a load of old cunts in their 50s are the ones who decide our elections. Which is in itself a good anti-starmer argument.

Charming. I am aware of what swing seats are thank you very much. Why not just say that instead of "segment of the population" which could mean anything. As for "load of old cunts in their 50s are the ones who decide our elections" (50 isnt old by the way, unless that was an attempt at a joke) Corbyn was doing well at inspiring younger people to come out and vote. Not sure Keir Starmer is inspiring anyone.

The Labour Party might face an 80 seat majority, but there are things they can do to help the country such as supporting grassroots campaigns and doing more to support the trade union movement. It's not just what happens in the House of Commons. From a more cynical point of view, if people such as the disabled and trade union members can see the Labour Party and its leadership is fully behind them they will be more likely to turn out and vote for them at election time. It might turn a few Tory safe seats into your beloved swing seats or even turn them red.

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2020, 12:25:27 PM »
My base assumption with Starmer is that once we get to 2024 the agenda put to the electorate actually will be pretty good but that in getting there he's going to have loud fights with the left. Disowning Jeremy Corbyn and making sure people notice it is probably part of the strategy.

I can't see why Starmer would bring a progressive agenda to the 2024 election having spent years having "loud fights" (a gift to the right-wing media who can write about splits in the Labour Party) with MPs who support progressive measures. Any attempts for a progressive agenda will be seized upon by the right-wing press. Will Starmer stand firm against them like Corbyn or capitulate?

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2020, 12:26:27 PM »
Westminster voting intention:

LAB: 40% (+3)
CON: 37% (-1)
LDEM: 5% (-2)
BREX: 5% (+1)
GRN: 5% (-1)

via
@YouGov

It's going really badly lads, really need Jeremy back.

Yougov giving Labour a 3-point lead... just like they were at this point of Corbyn's leadership.

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2020, 12:34:28 PM »
My base assumption with Starmer is that once we get to 2024 the agenda put to the electorate actually will be pretty good but that in getting there he's going to have loud fights with the left. Disowning Jeremy Corbyn and making sure people notice it is probably part of the strategy.

I mean, pretty much the only Labour MP saying this stuff is Clive Lewis so I don't hold out much hope for wider adoption. Even under Corbyn it never went further than "abolish the Lords, more devolution" which is just standard stuff isn't it. Labour is too tribal to see how important ditching our stupid electoral system is to the country in the long term.

That was my hope in voting for him, that he'd keep at least most of the stuff he'd pledged. It's abundantly clear now that he won't be doing that and I think it's very wishful thinking that he'd run on anything much beyond a Miliband platform. Having Corbyn as a backbencher is dealing with him quite enough, he was the same during the Blair years. this desire to keep up this endless factional war over very spurious reasons is doing far more damage than it could possibly be worth. He could quite easily have said that he disagrees with the statement he made, but that it's not a disciplinary matter and we wouldn't have had this dragged out bullshit that is again making the party look like it's in a constant civil war. It's a bad strategy at the very least. He's lost the trust of the membership and the left MP's we have left. Most of the members who voted for him will likely have voted for Corbyn in the past so it's absurd to thinking booting him out without good reason was going to be a good idea, strategy or otherwise.

Yes Clive Lewis is the main one campaigning for this and would have made a great candidate for leader that is not ultra closely associated with Corbyn but still on the left and advocating mostly the same policies. The factional stuff continually damages the party and we'd absolutely be better off with a split given the electoral system change. This is why I don't think Starmer will last till the election

Buelligan

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2020, 12:41:25 PM »
And more news from the Jewish Labour Movement's one day conference

Quote from: The Jewish Chronicle
[Starmer] was later asked by a former member who had campaigned for Liberal Democrat candidate Ms Berger if strict rules on rejoining the party could be relaxed as a result of the antisemitism crisis.

Sir Keir said: “I know this affects a number of people who left our party over the last few years and found themselves campaigning for other candidates, or even standing as candidates.  “The usual rule as you know is that if you support another candidate at an election, that’s a five-year exclusion from the Labour Party. I think we need to look again at that where people left the party because of antisemitism.  "This is not people who chose to leave the party to go and necessarily support another political party, it’s people who felt driven out of our party. I think that’s a different set of circumstances and I think we need to look at how we address that.  “I think there will be an number of people in that position and if those – perhaps yourself – are beginning to say ‘I think the Labour Party might be a safe space for me again’ then first of all that’s an amazing important thing from my point of view…

“We therefore need to find a way to make that happen. That obviously depends on the rule et cetera… Every rule must have an exception for exceptional circumstances, and I’m very happy to have a debate with people about how we make that happen.”

The move could also open the door to former MPs who quit the party in 2019 to rejoin Labour under new leadership.  Speaking at the JLM event earlier in the day, ex Labour MPs Joan Ryan and Mike Gapes earlier in the day said they had not yet applied to rejoin the party.

In the morning session Labour’s deputy leader offered a hardline approach to those on the left of the party seeking to pass motions in support of the ex-leader at local meetings.  Ms Rayner said: “It’s about education as well. It’s about having this approach where we don’t accept that people – you know, we have debates but there’s no debating what the EHRC said.  “There’s no debating whether antisemitism exists in the Labour Party. It does, and we’ve got to do everything we can to stamp it out.”

Other senior Labour figures to speak at the all day event included front benchers Anneliese Dodds, Lisa Nandy and Wes Streeting.

Ms Nandy re-confirmed her opposition to the Boycott Sanctions of Divestment (BDS) movement saying:“We’re not in favour of boycotts or the BDS (boycotts, divestments and sanctions) movement.  " I’ve always felt that the best way to advance the situation is to take people with you. BDS pushes people away instead of bringing people together."

Manchester Metro mayor Andy Burnham also spoke alongside Ms Rayner in a session on the situation in the UK’s second largest Jewish city.

Later Lord Mandelson praised Sir Keir and described his chances of achieving power as “formidable.”  He added:"“As long as Jeremy Corbyn and the people around him are there, I think this is going to create endless confusion for the public. And while Jeremy persists in what he is doing, he is going to render the Labour Party unelectable.”  Lord Mandelson also said:"“Under Jeremy, the party’s brand was trashed and its organisation was reduced to rubble. Nobody knew what a vote for Labour meant anymore and didn’t much like it.”

He also questioned the role of an independent complaints process - one of the main recommendations of the EHRC report - suggested such a body could become bogged down in "legalism", which would not take into account the culture of the Labour Party.

The journalist John Ware, who made the revealing BBC Panorama documentary on antisemitism, also spoke of his admiration for the whistleblowers who had shared crucial evidence of Labour’s failure on the issue.

I don't think I need to add anything to that.

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/starmer-corbyn-s-response-to-antisemitism-report-about-as-bad-as-you-can-get-1.509187

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2020, 12:59:49 PM »
feel like pure shit just want mike gapes back

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2020, 01:00:08 PM »
Ms Nandy re-confirmed her opposition to the Boycott Sanctions of Divestment (BDS) movement saying:“We’re not in favour of boycotts or the BDS (boycotts, divestments and sanctions) movement.  " I’ve always felt that the best way to advance the situation is to take people with you. BDS pushes people away instead of bringing people together."


What does that even fucking mean. Christ. How can you not be in favour of boycotts, if someone wants to boycott something it's their choice. There is no default position where you take no notice whatsoever of where you spend/invest your money.

Buelligan

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2020, 01:11:51 PM »
Because there is a concerted movement to make boycotting Israel illegal.  Because Israel knows this is a way that the Palestinian people might actually get back some rights.  Johnson is already going along with it, now Labour, Nandy, is promising that whoever gets into power, choices about ethical investment will become illegal.

Read it and weep.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws#United_Kingdom

But this is fine, isn't it GOBII?  Because it doesn't affect you.

Buelligan

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2020, 01:22:38 PM »

Paul Calf

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2020, 01:30:54 PM »
LOL WHY DO YOU KEEP PUNCHING YOURSELF IN THE FACE YOU FUCKING TOOL?

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2020, 01:32:39 PM »
SAY THANK YOU! SAY THANK YOU YOU GRIMY WHORE!

TrenterPercenter

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2020, 01:34:17 PM »
Yougov giving Labour a 3-point lead... just like they were at this point of Corbyn's leadership.

Corbyn had 1x 1-point lead and 2x 3-point leads (on the 12th and 26th April 2016) since he took over the leadership in Sept-2015.

The next lead Labour had over the tories wasn't until June 2017.

Starmer has recorded a 5-point lead, a 2-point lead and a 3-point lead (just in Yougov polls) in the same timescale.

He is already ahead on average, with a year to go.

I'm on your side but you need to choose better modes of attack - for example let's see what happens to his polling when the Tories save everyone with a vaccine and everyone collectively forgets all the people that needlessly died.

He has also set Corbyns reprieve date right in the middle of the likely vaccine roll out - "forensic"

Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2020, 01:45:46 PM »
Quote
Keir Starmer, the Labour party leader, faces the threat of resignations from his frontbench team should he order MPs to vote in favour of a Brexit deal agreed by the government.

Labour sources said that there were shadow ministers willing to step down if ordered to vote for the deal that could be agreed this week, with one describing it as a “dangerous moment” for the Starmer’s authority.

The Brexit row is just one of the issues facing the party over the next few months that are set to test Starmer, as he attempts to rejuvenate Labour after its crushing election defeat last year. Figures close to him said that early in the new year, he would begin to spell out how the party would foster a post-Covid recovery and move beyond attacks on the government’s competence.

Since he became leader, Starmer has closed a Tory lead of more than 20 points in the polls to level pegging in recent weeks, but many in the party believe that a combination of unrest on the left, Labour’s reluctance to discuss Brexit and the economic damage wrought by Covid will pose greater challenges for him. Others think the emergence of Covid vaccines in the spring will help Boris Johnson’s government stabilise its reputation after a torrid 2020.

One Labour veteran said that while Starmer had made a strong start by focusing on his competence, many in the party were “worried about Keir, because they don’t feel they know enough about where he sits on the political spectrum”. He added: “I think there is some degree of confusion within the Labour party as to where he stands and what his values are. And that is because of the lack of things that he’s fighting for beyond competence. He has to establish not a set of detailed policies, but a political position, which tells the public that we stand for our values. It has to be about much more than competence.”

How Starmer orders MPs to vote on the Brexit deal, should it be agreed, is already causing anguish among his team. One influential MP said that there was nervousness among frontbenchers and within the shadow cabinet over backing the deal, adding they would “consider their position” should Labour vote for it.

Another said: “There would be several junior ministerial resignations if we were forced to vote for it. I think that it would be a terrible mistake and there are many more people who feel that way in the PLP [parliamentary Labour party] and in the shadow cabinet than has been suggested.”

Figures at the top of the party are convinced voting through a deal is the only realistic option, with sources suggesting that Starmer is ready to order his MPs to back it. However, concern has built since a meeting of Labour MPs early last week, when several spoke in favour of backing a Brexit deal. Some present said they felt the event had been coordinated.

*snigger*

Hoisted by his own petard.

TrenterPercenter

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #56 on: November 30, 2020, 01:59:08 PM »
I can't see why Starmer would bring a progressive agenda to the 2024 election having spent years having "loud fights" (a gift to the right-wing media who can write about splits in the Labour Party) with MPs who support progressive measures. Any attempts for a progressive agenda will be seized upon by the right-wing press. Will Starmer stand firm against them like Corbyn or capitulate?

The question is will he need to;

If Starmer is this secret Tory looking to go balls deep into neoliberal doctrine what is the left going to do about it? If he doesn't need the votes of the "actual left" as he can replace them with soft left, centrist and rightwing votes then what is there to stop him?

As it happens I don't think he is[1] or wanting to do this (or rather we still cannot discern what his policies will be because he hasn't and doesn't need to tell anyone yet, that is of course his gift he can give after he has finished reorganising things and making the calculation on what he needs to do) however as always there will be mission creep.  I suspect he has already taken some loans that will need paying back.
 1. simplistic assessment that promotes an unhelpful view with lots of unhelpful mission creep itself

Buelligan

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Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #57 on: November 30, 2020, 02:04:21 PM »
Quote
Keir Starmer, the Labour party leader, faces the threat of resignations from his frontbench team should he order MPs to vote in favour of a Brexit deal agreed by the government.

Labour sources said that there were shadow ministers willing to step down if ordered to vote for the deal that could be agreed this week, with one describing it as a “dangerous moment” for the Starmer’s authority.

The Brexit row is just one of the issues facing the party over the next few months that are set to test Starmer, as he attempts to rejuvenate Labour after its crushing election defeat last year. Figures close to him said that early in the new year, he would begin to spell out how the party would foster a post-Covid recovery and move beyond attacks on the government’s competence.

Since he became leader, Starmer has closed a Tory lead of more than 20 points in the polls to level pegging in recent weeks, but many in the party believe that a combination of unrest on the left, Labour’s reluctance to discuss Brexit and the economic damage wrought by Covid will pose greater challenges for him. Others think the emergence of Covid vaccines in the spring will help Boris Johnson’s government stabilise its reputation after a torrid 2020.

One Labour veteran said that while Starmer had made a strong start by focusing on his competence, many in the party were “worried about Keir, because they don’t feel they know enough about where he sits on the political spectrum”. He added: “I think there is some degree of confusion within the Labour party as to where he stands and what his values are. And that is because of the lack of things that he’s fighting for beyond competence. He has to establish not a set of detailed policies, but a political position, which tells the public that we stand for our values. It has to be about much more than competence.”

How Starmer orders MPs to vote on the Brexit deal, should it be agreed, is already causing anguish among his team. One influential MP said that there was nervousness among frontbenchers and within the shadow cabinet over backing the deal, adding they would “consider their position” should Labour vote for it.

Another said: “There would be several junior ministerial resignations if we were forced to vote for it. I think that it would be a terrible mistake and there are many more people who feel that way in the PLP [parliamentary Labour party] and in the shadow cabinet than has been suggested.”

Figures at the top of the party are convinced voting through a deal is the only realistic option, with sources suggesting that Starmer is ready to order his MPs to back it. However, concern has built since a meeting of Labour MPs early last week, when several spoke in favour of backing a Brexit deal. Some present said they felt the event had been coordinated.
*snigger*

Hoisted by his own petard.

He so richly deserves this.  He's used Brexit and antisemitism to further his own career, I hope they eat him alive.

Sebastian Cobb

  • bad opinion haver
Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2020, 02:21:47 PM »
The IDS' have done him in a Stormzy parody now, lol https://twitter.com/TheIDSmiths/status/1333355057056780288

Bernice

  • a turkey is a bad person
Re: Labour Party Desolation v4: Just about as bad as you can get
« Reply #59 on: November 30, 2020, 02:38:08 PM »
tories win more elections, and are therefore better.

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