Topic: queer/trans comrades thread

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

Idk thread about the fucking state of all this here. As one of the resident trans people on this here forum I want to ask for support and to have a space where we can maybe talk about relevant things without it being specifically glued to the conduit of the suzanne moores, the glinners, the rowlings specifically, although that's not something that's off-topic per se.

Myself, I'm struggling, I'm increasingly affected on the ability to even leave my house. Deeply frightened. I've only been posting on cab this year and I've been so extraordinary, pleasantly surprised with the attitudes towards trans people. Many of you are real comrades and I wish to express a deep gratitude for that.

Have a memoji of my Jae (me) face

[Theremin]

Sending my energy for your ultimate spirit bomb, comrade.

Look after yourself, and please remember that normal people aren't usually 1% as psychotic as the Bri'Ish Meeja likes to pretend.

[buttgammon]

It's horrible and shameful. That said, I suspect the current wave of transphobia in Britain is the sort of desperate flurry that comes from people who know they've already lost all of the arguments. We all need to see them off and shut them down, but there will be better days around the corner. Until then, love and solidarity!

[Buelligan]

Really sorry to hear you're having negative feelings about leaving the house - you with that beautiful new dress and all.  As others have said, love and solidarity comrade.  Hugs too.

[Twit 2]

The best revenge is living well. If someone’s getting furious about the existence of trans people, then they’re the ones who are not happy with their life, the ones missing something.

your life is your life.
know it while you have it.
you are marvelous
the gods wait to delight
in you.

[tookish]

I'm so sorry to hear you're struggling so much. It is a terrible toxic environment for trans people in this country at the moment, and it is frightening to see how it has spiralled.

Where are you based, Goblin? When we are able to maybe we could go for a pint?

[dead-ced-dead]

My mother's a TERF, which really made me aware of just how horrible an environment trans and non-binary people had it. I never paid attention to newspapers and it was only when she started sharing articles from The Times, The Spectator and The Guardian that I realised how rampant it is. It's shameful and horrible that we've allowed ourselves to reach this state.

You have me as an ally and a comrade.

[tookish]

My mother's a TERF, which really made me aware of just how horrible an environment trans and non-binary people had it. I never paid attention to newspapers and it was only when she started sharing articles from The Times, The Spectator and The Guardian that I realised how rampant it is. It's shameful and horrible that we've allowed ourselves to reach this state.

You have me as an ally and a comrade.

That must be difficult to manage. My parents are quite transphobic which I've found difficult to navigate as I transition - in fact I've stalled for five years on starting hormones because my mother tearfully begged me not to 'ruin myself' any further. I shouldn't let it stop me but it is hard to stand up to.

[dead-ced-dead]

That must be difficult to manage. My parents are quite transphobic which I've found difficult to navigate as I transition - in fact I've stalled for five years on starting hormones because my mother tearfully begged me not to 'ruin myself' any further. I shouldn't let it stop me but it is hard to stand up to.

It must be horrible to have your mum speak like that to you. I'm sorry. Fortunately, as a cis ally, it's a topic I can sidestep when I go home to visit. Just stay off certain topics and derail any conversation that's going that way, usually by talking about something completely different. But that's only possible for me due to my cis privilege and I know I should correct her more when she's wrong but it can be exhausting. 

[Zetetic]

please remember that normal people aren't usually 1% as psychotic as the Bri'Ish Meeja likes to pretend.

Yeah. I don't want to overplay this - because I know you only need a single shit to ruin your day, and I don't know what recent physical-world unpleasantness you might well have been subjected to - but the overwhelming majority of people
1) have not been brought to any sort of strong feelings on "trans issues" in the abstract (despite the screeching of a section of the commentariat) and
2) regardless, when faced with any actual person would rather be polite and agreeable and rather see that person happy than not.

Which I know isn't a fantastic offer, from the Great British Public, but I think it's still something to hold on to beyond your front door.

[greenman]

Yeah. I don't want to overplay this - because I know you only need a single shit to ruin your day, and I don't know what recent physical-world unpleasantness you might well have been subjected to - but the overwhelming majority of people
1) have not been brought to any sort of strong feelings on "trans issues" in the abstract (despite the screeching of a section of the commentariat) and
2) regardless, when faced with any actual person would rather be polite and agreeable and rather see that person happy than not.

Which I know isn't a fantastic offer, from the Great British Public, but I think it's still something to hold on to beyond your front door.

I'd guess as much of the fear factor can be the middle ground, when your not directly interacting with someone and some kind of empathic connection or at least basic manners might come into play, feeling that passers by are thinking negatively of you.

I would say as well this is pretty obviously a political movement, the right have picked up on transphobia as something to take the place of racism, sexism, religious hatred, etc in environments were that kind of bigotry isn't accepted, its why I suspect terfs play such a big role.

It is also I think seeing how conservatism maintains itself, people believing the values they grew up with represent the perfect situation.

[ImmaculateClump]

Don't let the fuckers grind you down. Me and my sister were walking through some woods the other day and we were like "woah, look at all the well dressed, smiley people!". Everyone was being way more friendly than normal and playing with the dog and stuff and I was on google later and turns out it was international transgender day or something and we were like "aaaaaaaaah!"

Don't be frightened.
I know that it must feel like you're a soldier on the front lines a lot of the time, having to be brave just living your life day to day when you probably just want to relax and be happy.

Most people either don't care or are on your side. It won't feel like that because you're in the middle of it all and you'll be mostly hearing the same repetitive shite from the vocal minority.

Most people are friendly and cool and inclusive and open minded out there, you'll be seeing the very worst people society has to offer on the internet. Try to remember that it's not representative, same with the newspapers, it's very skewed.

[Zetetic]

I'd guess as much of the fear factor can be the middle ground,

Maybe it's dumb thought, but then I do hope that stickers and posters and anything that claims the built environment helps that sort of thing.

[flotemysost]

Just want to offer love and solidarity and I'm so sorry that you're feeling like this because of a minority of idiots. Please know there are many many more who are here for you.

Also for what it's worth your memoji is very cute. I'd love to be able to pull off a baby pink fringe and a septum piercing.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Solidarity.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The best revenge is living well. If someone’s getting furious about the existence of trans people, then they’re the ones who are not happy with their life, the ones missing something.

Apart from the ones who don't really care but know they can make a few bob and important contacts from saying so.

[Flouncer]

Hey GAFS, just wanted to say it's really nice to have you here - it's always interesting to hear your views on trans issues but your contributions to other topics are consistently of a good quality too. I'll have to respectfully disagree about Pink Floyd being shite, though. I'm sorry you're having a rough time. I've seen friends and family members go through the same sort of thing so I have a vague idea of how hard it must be for you. I hope things get better soon. xxx

[Jumblegraws]

It's horrible and shameful. That said, I suspect the current wave of transphobia in Britain is the sort of desperate flurry that comes from people who know they've already lost all of the arguments. We all need to see them off and shut them down, but there will be better days around the corner. Until then, love and solidarity!

I hope this is correct, it was my thinking about nine months ago, but I’m feeling a hell of a lot more pessimistic and worried for trans people after the two-hit of the Keira Bell case and the sop to trans exclusionism in Holyrood that was the amendment to the Forensic Medical Services bill. At this point it’s hard too see how they are consistently losing the argument when transphobes have had so much success framing the issue as trans people and their allies vs children and cis women.

[Sin Agog]

My aunt is one of those older women who'd probably have been a TERF if she wasn't trans herself.  I mean, she once ran to be the Conservative MP or councillor or somin of Chigwell.  She still defends Rowling and whatnot.  I tell people that it's not fair to expect her to suddenly be a leftie even though it's only crystal mamas and people like that who properly embrace her.  There are women on all sides of the political spectrum, so why should the act of having transitioned change that?

[Blinder Data]

sorry you're feeling shit, Goblin. I'm glad it might help to know there is a group of weirdos on here who wish you all the best.

How does the UK compare internationally RE: trans rights? I'm not saying it like "we're better than Poland!" but I'd be interested to know if there are countries out there where they're not fighting over this and it's less fraught. I'm guessing Nordic countries and some cities in US/Canada but even then you're at the mercy of who's elected into government

[Brundle-Fly]

Not all parents. My ninety-year-old dad (a retired scientist) once said over Sunday lunch while discussing Piers Morgan's beef with identity politics, that we must respect the fact that humans are progressing and it is all part of our evolution. He argued why wouldn't people be excited by this development rather than fear it? I felt quite proud.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

why should the act of having transitioned change that?

It shouldn't mean people suddenly change their political allegiance but there are all sorts of reasons to give to the above, first and foremost being the direct experience of identifying with a severely stigmatised, politically and socially persecuted group tends to move people towards acts of solidarity and into progressive circles.

Even from a downright Tory perspective I'm reminded of that MP who voted to scrap legal aid only to find himself in a specific situation where he needed it for personal circumstances, only to volte-face.

Given the whole journey is not only an opportunity for personal growth but pretty much personal growth itself, it wouldn't be too far-reaching to suggest that people might change their attitudes on all sorts along the way.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Not all parents. My ninety-year-old dad (a retired scientist) once said over Sunday lunch while discussing Piers Morgan's beef with identity politics, that we must respect the fact that humans are progressing and it is all part of our evolution. He argued why wouldn't people be excited by this development rather than fear it? I felt quite proud.

This is great.

[flotemysost]

Not all parents. My ninety-year-old dad (a retired scientist) once said over Sunday lunch while discussing Piers Morgan's beef with identity politics, that we must respect the fact that humans are progressing and it is all part of our evolution. He argued why wouldn't people be excited by this development rather than fear it? I felt quite proud.

Yeah, that's awesome.

I feel very fortunate in that my parents (70 and 71) have always been pretty liberal and open minded - I distinctly remember having a conversation with my mum when I was quite young along the lines of "Sometimes people don't feel comfortable as a boy/girl even if that's how they were born, there's nothing wrong with that and people can be who they want to be".

And my dad had a old friend and colleague who was a trans woman (who he knew pre-transition), I never met her but he only ever mentioned it as a very matter-of-fact thing, like it was no big deal.

I try to bear in mind that not everyone has grown up around tolerant views and while that's not an excuse for having bigoted views of your own, it might well mean that you've had to put in more work towards educating yourself - possibly at the expense of strained relationships with family/peers etc. However that seems like small fry compared to what actual marginalised individuals have to put up with, without any choice in the matter, and threads like this are a reminder that I and other cis folk need to ensure we're being the best trans allies we can be.

[canadagoose]

Yeah, the whole thing is getting me down too. It feels like, in the past, even though ignorance was widespread, it was "unconsidered" ignorance and was easier to combat. Now the bigots have got all their "gender critical" arguments that we have to volley like we're Andy bloody Murray or something. Not to mention, in Scotland, the SNP and pro-independence folk have been absolutely taken over by tervery since last year, in some kind of wedge-driving plot to get Gropey Eck back in Bute House and boot Sturgeon out. In the past eight or so years, the worst treatment I've had for being trans was from stupid saltire-shagging cybernats with a Salmond fetish.

I don't know why the onslaught is so pronounced now; there seems to be a lot of dark money involved somewhere. There was a full-page advert in The Scotsman yesterday for that bunch of clowns LGB Alliance, allegedly addressed to Boris Johnson (in the Scotsman?!) but I think we all know why they did it. I'm sick of it and sick of feeling nervous about entering female facilities after ten long years of no drama. Bloody fake-progressives have a lot to answer for.

[Jumblegraws]

Not all parents. My ninety-year-old dad (a retired scientist) once said over Sunday lunch while discussing Piers Morgan's beef with identity politics, that we must respect the fact that humans are progressing and it is all part of our evolution. He argued why wouldn't people be excited by this development rather than fear it? I felt quite proud.

I really wish voices like his (that is, people with a background in science) were heard more in this whole thing. I have a geneticist friend who gets extremely fucked off when transphobes appeal to “biological reality” and other bullshit ontological absolutes to simultaneously claim an intellectual high ground and pathologise (or simply ridicule) trans and non-binary people.

[Zetetic]

I'm not sure engaging with those things actually helps, partly because the whole thing is conceptual confused from the off usually (and trying to chip away at factual errors is usually orthogonal to that - and frankly are rarely aligned to anything more conceptually clear) but also because the "biological" arguments are generally post-hoc rationalisations for the broad attitudes that are motivating transphobia in the first place.

I won't claim to have huge experience successfully defusing people, but trying unpick practical issues with someone about their batshit fears and responses to them (like enforcing "female-only spaces") seems to stop it being about signalling those attitudes and ends up breaking apart some of the gender/sex stuff anyway (because of the way the practical appraisals of gender clearly are fuzzy for everyone).

[Jumblegraws]

Maybe, but I think what you’re saying may only be true to the extent that your audience is people already captured by so-called gender criticism. I’m thinking more of people who intuitively believe that trans women are women, trans men are men, that recognising this is both morally and scientifically sound, but don’t have the courage of their convictions to face down all the talk about chromosomes and gametes (my feeling that this characterises many ostensibly progressive politicians has grown steadily over the past year).

[TrenterPercenter]

I'm not sure engaging with those things actually helps, partly because the whole thing is conceptual confused from the off usually (and trying to chip away at factual errors is usually orthogonal to that - and frankly are rarely aligned to anything more conceptually clear) but also because the "biological" arguments are generally post-hoc rationalisations for the broad attitudes that are motivating transphobia in the first place.

I don't know, the old "it's not natural" argument has been fed into people with some dodgy science whilst it is quite obvious that changing sex is something that happens in nature.  It doesn't need to be more complicated than that really.  As you say generally in terms of knowing, people attach themselves to arguments, then colour in that argument in with evidence.  This then often leads to poeple finding only things that support their argument, which then bleeds into absolutism as an excuse for not properly considering counter evidence.   It might be overly complicated to have a full blown conversation about genetics but saying "what a about frogs then" to someone that says nowhere else in nature do animals change their sex and thinks that is something biologically impossible.

 

[chveik]

I prefer to think of it in terms of imprescriptible human rights, ie rights that any new scientific development shouldn't alter.

anyways I'm sorry to hear you're having a rough time Goblin and I hope things will get better soon.