Topic: SuperCovid is not UK-specific so open the damn borders

[George Oscar Bluth II]

I think we were right to do what we did, and I think nearby countries were probably right initially to cut us off but yeah...if this version has been around since September, and was a big deal in Kent...it's in all of those places already isn't it

[Buelligan]

This has raised concerns the UK is being punished for discovering the variant.

I mean, what the fucking fuck? 

People, huge numbers of people, have died, are dying.  Even people who aren't are losing loved ones, losing their jobs, suffering in so many ways.  People we all know and care about.  And you wibble on about the UK being punished?  Get a fucking grip.

[jobotic]

Ferguson didn't say we were being punished, it was an idiotic question that was put to him and he disagreed and pretty much said what Shoulders said.

Odd that Pinball should quote the whole exchange like that.

[Buelligan]

My post was directed at Pinball, I should have been clearer.  I notice he didn't reply to my question about whether he'd be up in arms about closed borders if the new strain was said to be emanating from Paris or Delhi - would you be welcoming travel from those destinations in that circumstance Pinball?

[Zetetic]

...it's in all of those places already isn't it

I don't think the idea is that it's not present in France but that they don't want any more of KentVid if it's not spreading in the same uncontrolled fashion as in Kent.

Not clear what viable border checks would have been several days ago. PCR tests? Hard to get rapid turnaround for the sorts of flow through Dover, I would have thought.

[Cuellar]

Great now there's a super South African strain in the country. Reparations NOW

[chveik]

in the spring most borders were closed, even when the countries concerned had already covid cases reported. I don't think it's that dissimilar, and I don't remember cab poster Pinball getting outraged about it.

[George Oscar Bluth II]

The borders weren't closed to lorries in the spring. It was quite reasonably decided that doing that was counterproductive.

[Cuellar]

I'm personally loving the banter from our French cousins, absolutely top drawer banter. No fruit - love it!

[bgmnts]

On ne passe pas!

[Pinball]

My post was directed at Pinball, I should have been clearer.  I notice he didn't reply to my question about whether he'd be up in arms about closed borders if the new strain was said to be emanating from Paris or Delhi - would you be welcoming travel from those destinations in that circumstance Pinball?

The science is fairly clear that this variant has spread everywhere, but the UK is wrongly perceived as a hotspot because it does most of the genomic sequencing i.e. 45% of the world's total, and approx 1000x more than France, certainly 100sx. I think we need scrupulous border checks e.g. why on earth hasn't rapid testing been introduced as standard for travellers and hauliers? But closing the borders should have ended fairly quickly.

So in answer, I wouldn't welcome any international travel in either direction, but would allow it with appropriate border testing/checks, and certainly would allow freight.  Closing the UK's borders has had a strong political element, and I would prefer science to drive policy (a naive dream, I know).

[Pinball]

Great now there's a super South African strain in the country. Reparations NOW

Similar to the UK situation, as in South Africa does far more genomic tests per capita than most countries, and the most problematic mutation - N501Y - is the same as is found in the UK-discovered variant. As these mutations may be most prone to arise in immunocompromised patients, and there are many HIV patients in South Africa, may be a variable, but how can we be sure South Africa is the origin?

I'm sure that in time we'll know, as there are thousands of recorded Covid mutations, and this fingerprint allows tracking.

[Pinball]

Ferguson didn't say we were being punished, it was an idiotic question that was put to him and he disagreed and pretty much said what Shoulders said.

Odd that Pinball should quote the whole exchange like that.

BBC verbatim. Not selectively done I assure you.

[Pinball]

The borders weren't closed to lorries in the spring. It was quite reasonably decided that doing that was counterproductive.

This.

Closing the border to accompanied freight was huge. Unnecessary and very, very damaging. I'm not so bothered about tourists.

[Cursus]

[Zetetic]

The science is fairly clear that this variant has spread everywhere

Are you prepared to accept that this variant had clearly spread to a far greater extent in SE England than elsewhere in the UK at one point?

(And that this then changed.)

[Zetetic]

I think we need scrupulous border checks e.g. why on earth hasn't rapid testing been introduced as standard for travellers and hauliers?

Do you want scrupulous ones or rapid ones?

(Noting, again I believe, that NERVTAG minutes specifically raised the issue of needing to verify whether LFDs were any less reliable at detecting KentVid, setting aside the general problem of getting hauliers to reliably self-sample when they're strongly disincentivised from getting a positive if they can avoid it.)

[Buelligan]

The science is fairly clear that this variant has spread everywhere, but the UK is wrongly perceived as a hotspot because it does most of the genomic sequencing i.e. 45% of the world's total, and approx 1000x more than France, certainly 100sx.

How have we established this amazeballs clear science if these johnny foreigners aren't doing tests?  You just told us that it was everywhere but just seemed to be emanating from the UK because they do more testing.  Now you're alleging it's everywhere and that's established even though it's not tested because something something something.

As far as freight goes.  Travelling from the UK to France takes around 35 minutes if you use the tunnel.  How long does the virus last outside the human body, in the air or on diverse surfaces?  Is it less than 35 minutes, scientifically speaking?

[BlodwynPig]

Finding tings.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-55421730

"The new variant of coronavirus is almost certainly in the majority of European countries already, according to Prof Neil Ferguson, from Imperial College London.

He was giving evidence to the House of Commons Science and Technology Committee alongside other experts from the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group, which advises government.

The variant has already been detected in other countries such as Denmark, but is likely to have spread much wider.

Prof Ferguson said: “I’m almost certain in my view, that this virus has been introduced into the great majority if not all European countries at this time.”

The UK has sequenced 45% of all the genetic codes of coronavirus in the world and it is still not certain whether it originated in the south east of England or was just first detected there.

This has raised concerns the UK is being punished for discovering the variant.

At the same hearing, Prof Peter Horby, from the University of Oxford, said: "I think it's fair to say countries that have more extensive and rigorous science and are more transparent do expose themselves to important information being made available to others.”"

It's been found in Denmark because we've been shipping (now flying charter) our wastewater to Denmark.

[Johnny Yesno]

It's been found in Denmark because we've been shipping (now flying charter) our wastewater to Denmark.

Whaaaat? Why on earth do we do that?

[Kelvin]

It's been found in Denmark because we've been shipping (now flying charter) our wastewater to Denmark.

Jesus, they'll buy any old shit.

[greenman]

Closing the border to accompanied freight was huge. Unnecessary and very, very damaging. I'm not so bothered about tourists.

It is probably some grandstanding by Macron I'd agree although I think not helped by the way the situation was handled by the Tories who seemed rather oblivious to the way the release of information would be handled. They should have been ready for this kind of reaction and made sure things like driver testing were in place already.

I do think the location of the UK outbreak seems a little coincidental, not in areas were cases were high previously but rather located close to the channel ports.

[Buelligan]

And close to London and the most densely populated areas in the UK.  Also, in direct line of sight to the moon.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Whaaaat? Why on earth do we do that?

Stop the shit farm overflowing on boxing day.

[BlodwynPig]

Stop the shit farm overflowing on boxing day.

I've been banging on about using ammonia to normalise the virus load - I think Boxing Day and the 3 days after will finally get those in power to listen to my pleas.

[Zetetic]

Hope I get some fucking graphs out of it then.

(Well, not from you.)

[hamfist]

confirmed 2 cases of BritVid in Switzerland.



they’re British LOLz

[JamesTC]

It might be like that mink strain and this one grown specifically in British people. A British cull is in order. I am willing to make the sacrifice so long as I can be part of a British mass grave that explodes from gas build-up.

[Uncle TechTip]

Let's just save the admin and extra swabs and just kill anyone not wearing a mask.

[Buelligan]

And from the brilliantly illuminating BBC News spout -

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said more than 10,000 tests had been done.

He said out of those lorry drivers who had been tested, 24 were positive for coronavirus.

The Department for Transport said all but three of the 2,367 coronavirus tests carried out on the lorry drivers had come back negative.

Which is reassuring.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-55445809