Zappa (Frank Zappa Documentary film about Frank Zappa)

[the science eel]

It's a great piece. Penman could be impenetrable but this makes its points brilliantly.

I've made my own points clear elsewhere.

[the science eel]

I've been a Frank fan for 30 years, I think there's a lot you can take from his stuff in terms of musical concepts and ideas. However, I'm also very wary of hero worship, and in the aging boomer music biz there's this received wisdom that Zappa was a musical genius who could write and play absolutely anything. I know that's extremely not true, because he was not capable of writing a popular song. He tried, he could not.

Well, he actually DID, but the results - mainly 'Dancin Fool' and 'Valley Girl' (and maybe 'Bobby Brown' which I remember German mates playing on a school exchange in 1982 and all nodding and singing along) - were absolutely fucking horrible.

[NoSleep]

I've made my own points clear elsewhere.

That you think he's a wanker and you don't like his music? Lacks detail. Especially coming from an Oasis[nb]Two wankers who made horrible derivative music[/nb] fan.

[daf]

This is the only place online I'm likely to read about Zappa,

He often crops up on the Steve Hoffman forum - loads of threads

[famethrowa]

Well, he actually DID, but the results - mainly 'Dancin Fool' and 'Valley Girl' (and maybe 'Bobby Brown' which I remember German mates playing on a school exchange in 1982 and all nodding and singing along) - were absolutely fucking horrible.

I guess so with those ones but yeah they're pretty much the worst. Bobby Brown was probably the first Zappa I ever heard, in the school music room as the older lads played a tape and guffawed away at the mention of vaseline. I'm certainly not the most enlightened soul around, but even then in my young years it seemed a blatant, tasteless go at getting laughs out of "gay stuff".

[chveik]

I think he stinks. my dad used to listen to him, Shut Up & Play Your Guitar, Sheik Yerbouti, the earlier stuff, I find it all unbearable.

[Dropshadow]

That Frank Zappa, eh? Still, he made one really great song - "The Dangerous Kitchen" - which is a sort of achievement, isn't it? Anyway, let's cut to the chase. If you really, really, REALLY want to yank a Zappa fan's chain, say to him (or her; could be a lady) "The best thing that ever happened to Frank Zappa was Trevor Charles Howell". The results can be interesting.

[LynnBenfield69]

http://www.mr-agreeable.net/2001/12/12/frank-zappa/

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

Ian Penman writes quite wittily and perceptively about the load of hoary old shit that top self- important musician Frank Fucking Zappa and His Beard produced.

FTFY.

[NoSleep]

Point missing (as usual).

[Petey Pate]

The bass guitar playing by Scott Thunes in Valley Girl is stellar and elevates it above a tacky novelty song. Amazingly, it was originally not going to feature any bass part at all.

That Penman piece is total shit. If you want a better take down of Zappa, listen to either Jim Cox's 'Frankie's In Town' parody or Tom Sharpling and Jon Wurster's 'Jazz Fart' call from The Best Show on WFMU. They're at least funny.

[Noodle Lizard]

It's probably not cool to like Valley Girl (or Bobby Brown for that matter). I find both of them very funny and musically solid, but I acknowledge that I don't necessarily have the finest taste. I also like You Are What You Is more than most seem to - probably because my first real exposure to Zappa was the The Torture Never Stops live performance, but also because that whole stretch about religion and government really appealed to the 17-year-old militant atheist I was at the time. Still like it though.

[Famous Mortimer]

I've tried, occasionally, since my teens to find something to like about Zappa, but I never have. The article posted on the previous page is pretty accurate, re: my feelings towards him. Not funny or clever, and a chore to listen to whenever I tried or anyone around me played something by him.

[lazyhour]

Weird Al's (affectionate) Zappa parody is lots of fun. Warning: contains Weird Al.

https://youtu.be/hQTNBWIdLeI

[Pauline Walnuts]

If you want a better take down of Zappa, listen to either Jim Cox's 'Frankie's In Town' parody

I've never heard of this, it's good!

https://youtu.be/oJPK35hChAk

And apparently Frankie hated it, so that's a bonus.

[famethrowa]

Tom Sharpling and Jon Wurster's 'Jazz Fart' call from The Best Show on WFMU. They're at least funny.

Ha I forgot about that one! Great stuff.

JAZZ FART JAZZ FART

[spaghetamine]

I've never heard of this, it's good!

https://youtu.be/oJPK35hChAk

And apparently Frankie hated it, so that's a bonus.

this is great, I like a fair of Zappa's music but there's something of a sneering, unpleasant quality to a lot of it - i can totally see him as someone who could dish it out but not take it

[The Bumlord]

Weird Al's (affectionate) Zappa parody is lots of fun. Warning: contains Weird Al.

https://youtu.be/hQTNBWIdLeI

Never heard that before. It's great!

[Petey Pate]

Weird Al's (affectionate) Zappa parody is lots of fun. Warning: contains Weird Al.

https://youtu.be/hQTNBWIdLeI

And Dweezil Zappa.

I might have told this story before on CaB but when I saw Zappa Plays Zappa a few years ago the definite highlight of their set was a note perfect rendition of Johnny 'Guitar' Watson's I Want To Ta Ta You Baby, with Dweezil getting Johnny's guitar style down as well as his dad's. Scheila Gonzalez also did an excellent job singing it. I think it stood out because it was a straight ahead r&b song with zero irony and sang with total sincerity.

[Pauline Walnuts]

a note perfect rendition of Johnny 'Guitar' Watson's I Want To Ta Ta You Baby, with Dweezil getting Johnny's guitar style down as well as his dad's.

That sounds like a worthwhile use of everyones time, instead of staying at home and listening to a Johnny 'Guitar' Watson's album or something.

[Shit Good Nose]

If you really, really, REALLY want to yank a Zappa fan's chain, say to him (or her; could be a lady) "The best thing that ever happened to Frank Zappa was Trevor Charles Howell". The results can be interesting.

A statement I, a fairly hardcore Zappa fan, not only strongly agree with, but one I've been saying for years and have said several times on CaB.  Chunga's Revenge and some (SOME) of 200 Motels aside, I think it's the absolute nadir of his entire career, even worse than the synclavier stuff.  Except for Jeff Simmons, everyone involved with the Flo and Eddie Mothers - including Zappa himself - said that unit could have gone on for at least a few more years and albums, with the songs being created the same way.  Were it not for FZ being laid up for a very long period of time, he wouldn't have spent as much time pracitising guitar or composing music, ergo potentially no Wazoo orchestras, no Roxy, no Beefheart collab, etc etc etc.


I'm not going to argue with anyone who doesn't like his music, but that Ian Penman article is absolute bollocks.  There is absolutely NO WAY he listened to every re-release in that first Ryko batch as he claimed.  I defy anyone sitting back doing that to not mention the Flo and Eddie Mothers (either as an abysmal or underrated thing), make no single mention of Ruth Underwood, no mention of Beefheart other than the fact that FZ was no Beefheart, no mention of the numerous guitar-less pieces, or any other musicians than Steve Vai, Jean Luc Ponty and Terry Bozzio.


Anyway, I have the doc downloaded but haven't watched it yet.

[Glitch King]

.

[thugler]

http://www.mr-agreeable.net/2001/12/12/frank-zappa/

Such tosh..

There's so much cliched writing in general that goes on and on about how jazz or anything left field whatsoever is 'pointless' 'inexpressive' 'artless' 'pompous' music only to be taken seriously by pseuds and wankers. It's an absolute piss take to say he had nothing to offer. And worse still to suggest it's because he didn't invent an entire new musical style, although the specific genre blending style he did use was pretty original I would say. What a ridiculous bar that is for any artist to meet. And I'm quite happy to criticise some of the garbage he made.

Looking forward to watching this film

EDIT: Fucking hell, that penman one is even worse. When you spend three quarters of the article complaining about the behaviour of Zappa fans and what they say and think, or complaining over and over about shallow smutty lyrics (something most fans would not see as great either), it seems to me that he isn't able to broach the quality of the music at all, to the point that I doubt very much they've listened to it. Also I don't think Zappa had contempt for the music he made whether it was modern classical or jazz or rock or whatever. It's character assassination dressed up as music criticism.

[Glitch King]

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[Pauline Walnuts]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-LpfuWKlZM

Must be legit, it's on Youtube.

[Chriddof]

Such tosh..

There's so much cliched writing in general that goes on and on about how jazz or anything left field whatsoever is 'pointless' 'inexpressive' 'artless' 'pompous' music only to be taken seriously by pseuds and wankers.

David Stubbs is well into stuff like free improv and Stockhausen, so he's not coming at it from that angle.

[thugler]

David Stubbs is well into stuff like free improv and Stockhausen, so he's not coming at it from that angle.

That's fair, I wasn't aware of that. I still think it's a harsh summary.

[SteveDave]

DAVID STUBBS! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWK EXPERT!