Author Topic: WW84  (Read 5701 times)

Famous Mortimer

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WW84
« on: December 26, 2020, 02:53:55 AM »
Anyone else watched it yet? My mate is doing a stream of it off HBO Max via Zoom, and...it's alright so far?


samadriel

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Re: WW84
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2020, 06:46:40 AM »
It's decent, i thought Wiig was the star of the show, and Pedro Pascal was good too. A few good fights, and establishing Diana as having given up her invincibility for Trevor made it kind of satisfying when she was bleeding a bit. She still wins - it's a mainstream movie - but it felt like she had to sweat for it.

Fun cameo in the credits.

Re: WW84
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2020, 11:38:38 AM »
Not as good as the first one but pretty decent. Agreed that Wiig is the star. A lot of people complaining about the length but I didn't find it dragged on too much, I quite like the epic Superman 1978-esque feel in these kinds of films.

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Re: WW84
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2020, 03:29:20 PM »
Very average, I thought. The whole making and/or denouncing your wish thing became very tedious after 2.5 hours

Good cast, but it feels so overblown, and waaaay too long. There's also a full hour in the middle where she's not even being Wonder Woman, which made it even more drawn out and tedious

I didn't hate it, and most of the action was good, but the first film was definitely better, and tighter, with a better story

I'd rather it was just a simple, straightforward story about WW Vs the Cheetah. I found the Elon Musk plot very tiresome. I don't really think Steve Trevor was needed either, but I kinda get why he was there, in terms of building on the WW character

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Re: WW84
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2020, 05:45:22 PM »
Unfortunately I thought it was fucking awful, and really wish I hadn't bothered watching it. I really enjoyed Wonder Woman, and thought Gal Gadot was great in the role but while she still is in this the rest of it is a pile of tedious dog shit, one of the worst big budget films I've ever seen. After the first two back to back set pieces it's over an hour before we see Diana in her Wonder Woman costume, the plot is a tedious one, Pedro Pascal is great as Maxwell Lord but there's hardly any action scenes at all, which wouldn't be an issue if the dialogue was strong but it's is so poor that it's all but unwatchable, and the ending where Diana gives a big speech that saves the world is one of the most embarrassing finales I've ever seen.  2.1/10

Random, sometimes spoiler-y sometimes pedantic thoughts:

It started strongly when we get what appears to be the Amazonian version of the tv series Wipeout, and the mall sequence is fun too. That's about the last time I found myself enjoying it though.

Actually that's a small lie, when everyone in the world gets to make a wish their idiocy led to the odd laugh. Of course the film then undoes that, and the ending is so unbelievably shit I found myself full of rage.

Extremely pedantic comment no.1: We see someone playing Operation Wolf in an arcade early on but that wasn't released until 1987, a mistake I'm foaming at the mouth about.

Wonder Woman drops criminals on a police car, semi-destroying it. Lucky no one was inside, eh Diana?

The monkey's paw thing is so badly handled, at least when it comes to the patronising dialogue.

Hey, it's Asim Chaudhry! I wonder what his hilarious character will do next? Nothing? Oh.

The 80's clothing montage mockery has been done to death, and it's not funny here just because it's a man in various outfits.

Extremely pedantic comment No.2: Escalators were invented in 1892 and by 1912 common in underground stations, I know Steve's American but chances are he'd have seen one or at least knew about them.

That winged suit Diana turns up in really does look ridiculous. And the big fight with her and Barbara is over with way too quickly given we don't get one with Max Lord.

The mid-credits cameo is cute but shows Carter to be a fairly dodgy actress.

Famous Mortimer

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Re: WW84
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2020, 06:35:11 PM »
I will also spoiler things:

Re: the mid credits cameo, why doesn't Linda pop and see Gal, and say "hey, you're not the last surviving Amazon"?

I really don't like those big, everyone needs to realise our connections, etc. endings, and I don't think it stands up to the slightest scrutiny. Like, why didn't anyone wish for no nukes? Or world peace? Did every single person have to rescind their wish? Because I bet a couple of people didn't want to. How did the dead woman in the English cafe rescind her wish? Why did no horny teenagers wish to have sex with Gal Gadot? When you factor in that the mid 80s, especially in the West, was a time of privatisation and unemployment, things like a few people helping out a homeless person with a meal does not end the problem of homelessness.

Everyone seems very chill at the end, and the movie doesn't pause for a second to contemplate the enormous psychological scar of everyone in the world wishing everyone else in the world dead, but does have plenty of time to pan across Gal Gadot's smiling face. It felt like they didn't spend anything like enough time contemplating what their ending actually meant.

Also, CGI still hasn't figure out how to animate people flying through the air.

samadriel

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Re: WW84
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2020, 07:15:22 PM »
I will also spoiler things:

Re: the mid credits cameo, why doesn't Linda pop and see Gal, and say "hey, you're not the last surviving Amazon?"
Neither of them are "the last surviving Amazons", the island hasn't been disturbed since WW1, as far as we know. The first movie was vague on whether someone who leaves the island can ever go back, despite knowing it's there, but there's nothing about the Amazons being wiped out. Even that bloodthirsty tool Snyder didn't write the Amazons being destroyed in JLA, as I recall.

I thought they handled flying CGI rather well; I liked how tiny she was against the massive cloud banks.

Re: WW84
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2020, 07:23:19 PM »
Thought this was boring as all arseholes. Just watch Wishmaster instead, innit.

Famous Mortimer

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Re: WW84
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2020, 07:27:24 PM »
Neither of them are "the last surviving Amazons", the island hasn't been disturbed since WW1, as far as we know. The first movie was vague on whether someone who leaves the island can ever go back, despite knowing it's there, but there's nothing about the Amazons being wiped out. Even that bloodthirsty tool Snyder didn't write the Amazons being destroyed in JLA, as I recall.

I thought they handled flying CGI rather well; I liked how tiny she was against the massive cloud banks.
But it didn't look like it was a human doing it, the movements didn't look right. And I thought there was a big storm that fucked all the Amazons, but I'm clearly remembering something different. Still, it's not like Diana pops home every ten minutes, might be nice to check in.

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Re: WW84
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2020, 07:43:28 PM »
I will also spoiler things:

Re: the mid credits cameo, why doesn't Linda pop and see Gal, and say "hey, you're not the last surviving Amazon"?

I really don't like those big, everyone needs to realise our connections, etc. endings, and I don't think it stands up to the slightest scrutiny. Like, why didn't anyone wish for no nukes? Or world peace? Did every single person have to rescind their wish? Because I bet a couple of people didn't want to. How did the dead woman in the English cafe rescind her wish? Why did no horny teenagers wish to have sex with Gal Gadot? When you factor in that the mid 80s, especially in the West, was a time of privatisation and unemployment, things like a few people helping out a homeless person with a meal does not end the problem of homelessness.

Everyone seems very chill at the end, and the movie doesn't pause for a second to contemplate the enormous psychological scar of everyone in the world wishing everyone else in the world dead, but does have plenty of time to pan across Gal Gadot's smiling face. It felt like they didn't spend anything like enough time contemplating what their ending actually meant.

Also, CGI still hasn't figure out how to animate people flying through the air.

I thought the same thing on the wishing front, so yeah, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny in the slightest.

I might've been a bit over the top with my negativity about the film but I'd been looking forward to it ever since they announced the HBO Max release date, and I'm working a fair bit over the Christmas period so feel very frustrated when wasting so much time watching something so shit.

Re: WW84
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2020, 08:03:22 PM »
Absolute dog eggs.

I do like how Chris Pine is slowly turning into Huey Lewis as he gets older.

Also, she would’ve crushed those kids she saves on the road.

Dr Rock

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Re: WW84
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2020, 03:59:21 PM »
Didn't Wonder Woman kinda do a rape?

Kelvin

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Re: WW84
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2020, 04:07:33 PM »
I'm trying to imagine a film so bad that Gal Gadot is one of the best things in it.

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Re: WW84
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2020, 04:18:49 PM »
Didn't Wonder Woman kinda do a rape?

A friend hated that aspect of it, and um, well, yeah, the answer appears to be yes.

Neomod

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Re: WW84
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2020, 04:20:40 PM »
Meh.

Was there an actual reason to set this in the 80's that I missed?[1] I must admit to only half watching it as I got bored pretty quickly.
 1. apart from the 'comedy' style montage

Re: WW84
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2020, 04:27:01 PM »
Is it something to do with keeping it consistent with the DC Universe timeline? See also: the mall cameras being destroyed so no-one knows about her existence, since she isn't supposed to "appear" until after Batman and Superman are known to the public.

I'm trying to imagine a film so bad that Gal Gadot is one of the best things in it.

I mean, she's great in the previous Wonder Woman film, but that's generally a very good film. This one I think is average and she just doesn't seem as endearing for whatever reason (the script, I guess).

Kelvin

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Re: WW84
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2020, 04:35:18 PM »
I mean, she's great in the previous Wonder Woman film, but that's generally a very good film. This one I think is average and she just doesn't seem as endearing for whatever reason (the script, I guess).

I thought she was abysmal in the first one, certainly one of the worst mainstream leading role performances I've ever seen. She had a decent physicality, but in every other way, her performance was excruciating. In fact looking back over my comments in the original thread, I pointed out that even her face acting was bizarre. I have never understood why she gets such praise for the role. It's like people praising Keanu Reeves in Dracula*.

*Alright, she's not quite that bad.

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Re: WW84
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2020, 05:24:55 PM »
She's not a very good actress no, but she does bring a presence and likeability to the role. Her trying to be Cleopatra and do "proper acting" is going to be interesting

The more I think about this film, the more I dislike it.

It had that moronic thing of having a clearly beautiful and charismatic woman, Kristen Wigg, and trying to get across that no one gives her the time of day or even notices her. Which is ludicrous. See also: Michelle Phieffer in Batman Returns

It was also really OTT that literally every single man she passed afterwards was letching and shouting out sexist comments. But, oh, no, she asked a magic stick to be like Wonder Woman. Even though WW doesn't get these comments much herself. Then the extended beatdown of Chester The Molestor, even though WW had handed him his arse a few minutes earlier

The film is full of strange choices. The aforementioned WW saving the kids, yet clearly they'd have been at least injured, falling directly on concrete, at speed, and then having WW roll over them

A lot of the humour falls flat. And no, there's no reason for it to be based in the 80s

Strange strange film. What a disappointment. It actually undoes a bit of the goodwill for the first film, as it makes that feel like a bit of a fluke

Re: WW84
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2020, 05:27:29 PM »
I have a couple of questions.


Why did Lord bother visiting the Egyptian guy when he'd already (according to the film) struck half the world's supply of oil? Why does everyone want more oil and more nukes? Why doesn't anyone/everyone want a giant Mr Stay Puft?

Why did Diana say Barbara was so "free" (whatever that means) and to be envied when there was no evidence of that? All she'd done was be movie-dorky. Why did everyone suddenly notice she was attractive after she made her wish, when she looked exactly the same? Why are there so many drunk rapists hanging around the Smithsonian?

Why does #1 apex predator = furry who loses easily in minutes? Why did she even want to be that when she'd just stated nobody could fuck with her anyway, even without a tail? Why wasn't her second wish to simply become a giant Mr Stay Puft?

How/why does she get two wishes anyway, when it's made clear at least three times in the film, once by her, literally seconds before she states her second wish, people only get one wish? How/why does Lord's kid's wish not work? Did she get his? Why didn't he want a gi- ah forget it.

What the fuck was the objective of Lord anyway? Everyone having their wish? How does that help him at all? Seemed to be just making him unwell. Why was he worried about being hounded by the taxman when he'd just become the most powerful man in the world? Why didn't he just wish he was the president of the world in the first place or everyone else was his slave?

I know she's in the IDF, but why is Diana's solution to a minor travel inconvenience invading an Arab country's airspace with a military fighter? Why does Steve pick that plane, when as a WWI pilot he's as competent to fly it as me?

Why does someone who understands the science behind flight not understand what to do on an escalator? I don't think I was that confused when I first saw one and I was five.

Why does Diana talk about Steve's "gift", flight, that she doesn't understand, as if it's him flying and not the plane? It's a gift lots of people have. In 60 years she never asked anyone else who can fly how to fly, like Sully Sullenberger or Superman?

Why is the gold suit that's in so much of the (70s looking) promo material only in five dark minutes of the film? Because outside the promo stuff it looks shit?

Why does a guy want to drop a little girl to her death in an otherwise silly shopping mall caper in a bubble gum movie popular with little girls? That's darker than anything I've seen in Batman.

Why do kids in Egypt not step off the road for 30 seconds when a column of armoured cars are coming their way? Why don't their parents tell them to move? How does Wonder Woman still have a rope after it's slipped out of her hand? How do you lasso a cloud, or was that another plane half a mile away? How long is that lasso anyway?

Why does small Diana think she's going to win the competition when she didn't even hit all the targets?

Why does the White House choppa still ferry Lord around after he renounced his wish and returned to being a "loser"?

Why does Wonder Woman go on about humanity when she drops people six floors into car roofs, has zero issues with permanently erasing someone's life to continue having weird necrophiliac sex [the issues with this one are unbelievable; she's even flirting with the guy at the end, six month's after she invaded his home, went through his clothes and raped his body], spends waaay too long weighing up whether murdering Lord is an option, and doesn't even offer to accompany Barbara home after she's attacked in a park. Just "go home".


Thanks.

Edit: Diane/Diana
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 05:39:00 PM by Crisps? »

Shameless Custard

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Re: WW84
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2020, 05:33:42 PM »
Heh, great post Crisps. And all valid questions

Kelvin

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Re: WW84
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2020, 05:47:12 PM »
falling directly on concrete, at speed, and then having WW roll over them

I never want to learn the context for this scene.

Dr Rock

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Re: WW84
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2020, 06:05:46 PM »
Why did WW's wish have to involve borrowing somebody else's body (without consent and all that) - if people's wishes can make nuclear weapons and big walls appear out of thin air, why didn't Diana's wish simply pluck Steve from nothingness? No need to rape anyone then.

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Re: WW84
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2020, 06:08:53 PM »
Then she had the gall to exchange small talk with him at the end

This Wonder Woman is losing her wonder

Re: WW84
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2020, 06:27:18 PM »
I thought she was abysmal in the first one, certainly one of the worst mainstream leading role performances I've ever seen. She had a decent physicality, but in every other way, her performance was excruciating. In fact looking back over my comments in the original thread, I pointed out that even her face acting was bizarre. I have never understood why she gets such praise for the role. It's like people praising Keanu Reeves in Dracula*.

*Alright, she's not quite that bad.

I kind of see it as more like Arnie in Terminator. He's a shit actor but it worked for me for the fish-out-of-water role.

Keanu in Dracula was just awful in every way, although I still like that film.

Re: WW84
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2020, 08:03:56 PM »
The film is full of strange choices. The aforementioned WW saving the kids, yet clearly they'd have been at least injured, falling directly on concrete, at speed, and then having WW roll over them

That struck a sour note with me, because I was just thinking they'd be covered with bruises and then she tells them to keep it secret. "Hey kids, where did you get those bruises?" "It's a secret." Sure, that won't raise any red flags.

Re: WW84
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2020, 08:56:10 PM »
I thought it was weird because who is it supposed to be a secret from? Their parents and other relatives right there on the side of the road who saw it all?

I have to admit I like this film, either despite or because of the inexplicable/WTF moments in it.

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Re: WW84
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2020, 09:58:25 PM »
Unsurprisingly a third film has already been announced

https://screenrant.com/wonder-woman-3-confirmed-patty-jenkins-returning/

Let's hope it's nine hours long

Re: WW84
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2020, 01:02:19 AM »
Absolute dog eggs.

I do like how Chris Pine is slowly turning into Huey Lewis as he gets older.


I sorta thought he's turning into Beau Bridges. He evens sounds like him.

Anyway, I just saw it and it was kinda disappointing. Really needed way more action and fights. I remember the no man's land action sequence in the first film just blowing me away and this film needed an injection of that.  It did have a bit of soul, mind you.

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Re: WW84
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2020, 12:32:52 PM »
Kelvin, you need to watch it. This can't be a DCU thread without your input!

I was thinking I might rewatch it, but 2.5 hours? Maybe I could watch it in chunks

Kelvin

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Re: WW84
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2020, 03:51:24 PM »
Kelvin, you need to watch it. This can't be a DCU thread without your input!

Heh, that's flattering, but I haven't watched any of the DCEU films since Justice League. I'm curious about Snyder's own bizarro take on that film, but that's it.

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