Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 04:24:12 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Rumour Patel wants to bring back death penalty

Started by Fambo Number Mive, December 27, 2020, 05:12:42 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Dex Sawash


Butchers Blind

I'm in favour but only if they show it primetime, somewhere between The One Show and EastEnders.  Not late night after Newsnight, don't want nightmares.

idunnosomename

could be weekday mornings, maybe one day a week.



What's the sign on the lollypop!?

doodle dada doo da doodoo da dooo

*whizz*

IT'S THE EXECUTIONER'S STOP!!!

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Rumour Patel much more insidious sister of Synthesizer.

Sebastian Cobb


Paul Calf

Quote from: BlodwynPig on December 27, 2020, 10:05:25 PM
This is how the forum first reacted when brexit was first mooted. Be careful what you wisecrack at.

Yesh. Government sees a cheap way to silence political enemies by branding them terrorists and just offing them. I wonder whether PaddyPower have a market...?

Lord Mandrake

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on December 27, 2020, 05:12:42 PM
https://twitter.com/BameFor/status/1342495556732649478

Former Scum editor Kelvin McKenzie has called for a referendum on the issue: https://twitter.com/kelvmackenzie/status/1342496004298465281

The State should not be allowed to put people to death in any country in my view, but when you consider how many miscarriages of justice have occurred in the UK since the death penalty was abolished, we'd have seen dozens of innocent people killed. The pro-death penalty side say that DNA evidence makes this less of an issue now but if this is true (and I haven't seen any evidence that this couldn't be tampered with) it doesn't make it impossible.

The death penalty isn't a deterrent - very few people think about being caught before deciding whether or not to commit a crime

Funniest thing I've read today and I've been reading the funnies all day sweetheart.

canadagoose

Quote from: idunnosomename on December 27, 2020, 11:51:53 PM
could be weekday mornings, maybe one day a week.



What's the sign on the lollypop!?

doodle dada doo da doodoo da dooo

*whizz*

IT'S THE EXECUTIONER'S STOP!!!
I bet a load of daft folk our age would cheer it on. HUR HUR IT LIKE THE PLAYDAYS WOT WE HAD!!!

Noodle Lizard

100% against the death penalty, but borne more out of a core mistrust in government institutions than anything else. It's astonishing/depressing the amount of ostensibly liberal-minded people who agree with such a thing when it suits them, despite otherwise acknowledging that the judicial system and governments are frequently an incompetent shamble of cunts.

From what I remember reading, there's not even a financial advantage to it (i.e. it costs more to execute a prisoner than to house them for the rest of their life) and the "deterrent" argument has been disproven since BCE. I sometimes kick myself remembering that my liberal utopia of California still has it and has routinely struck down attempts to abolish it.

idunnosomename

yes it costs more to administrate death row inmates than just to have life sentences.

death penalty made more sense back when people believed in eschatological judgement. in our secular age it's just revenge.

Sebastian Cobb

Aren't there people who've been sat on death row for the time of a life sentence anyway? Dragging it out for an indefinite period seems uniquely awful.

From what I can gather likelihood of getting caught has always trumped harshness of sentencing. And obviously there's far more productive, and ways of reducing crime that are far more beneficial to wider society other than simply funding a police force well enough to catch lots of criminals.

Paul Calf

Quote from: idunnosomename on December 28, 2020, 02:20:44 AM
yes it costs more to administrate death row inmates than just to have life sentences.

Unless you decide to cut the red tape and get 'em strung up double-quick.

Kelvin

Quote from: idunnosomename on December 28, 2020, 02:20:44 AM
death penalty made more sense back when people believed in eschatological judgement. in our secular age it's just revenge.

This is the core of it, and why all arguments about cost and morality will fall on deaf ears if it goes to a referendum. Just as with Brexit, its supporters are making an emotional, rather than logical decision. They just want bad people to suffer.

idunnosomename

Quote from: Paul Calf on December 28, 2020, 02:33:53 AM
Unless you decide to cut the red tape and get 'em strung up double-quick.
yeah this is the essential dilemma. either it's endlessly drawn out for the demands of justice or you hang patsies.

arguably something like the reign of terror was necessary though. and we could do with one here too

idunnosomename

Quote from: Kelvin on December 28, 2020, 02:37:59 AM
This is the core of it, and why all arguments about cost and morality will fall on deaf ears if it goes to a referendum. Just as with Brexit, its supporters are making an emotional, rather than logical decision. They just want bad people to suffer.
facts dont care about your feelings!!!!!

Menu

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on December 27, 2020, 05:12:42 PM
https://twitter.com/BameFor/status/1342495556732649478

Former Scum editor Kelvin McKenzie has called for a referendum on the issue: https://twitter.com/kelvmackenzie/status/1342496004298465281

The State should not be allowed to put people to death in any country in my view, but when you consider how many miscarriages of justice have occurred in the UK since the death penalty was abolished, we'd have seen dozens of innocent people killed. The pro-death penalty side say that DNA evidence makes this less of an issue now but if this is true (and I haven't seen any evidence that this couldn't be tampered with) it doesn't make it impossible.

The death penalty isn't a deterrent - very few people think about being caught before deciding whether or not to commit a crime, and as I understand it it costs a lot of money to execute people in America, some of whom have appeal after appeal. I find the whole aspect of the "last meal" nauseating - someone has been deemed evil enough to be put to death but not evil enough not to enjoy whatever they want to eat before they are killed. It's just twisted.

I can see the death penalty being a slippery slope. They'd start out with it just being for the murder of a police officer, a child or mass murder (and I wouldn't support it no matter what the crime) and in a few years it would be for all sorts of crimes. I don't think the current prison system in the UK works (no offence to icehaven or anyone else on here who works in the prison service) but I don't think killing people is the answer.

I can imagine the Tories trying to bring in the death penalty in a few years and Starmer would probably whip Labour to abstain. They might even have televised executions hosted by a celebrity during the National Lottery or something, I wouldn't put anything past the tossers currently in charge.

Anyone on here support the death penalty?

They usually fly these 'culture war' kites when they want to distract the media and the public from something. Remember when they floated the possibility of Paul Dacre becoming Chair of Ofcom and Charles Moore to be BBC DG? And then a few days later it was forgotten.

I think in this case they are trying to distract the Brexit-supporting newspapers and the ERG from how bad the Brexit deal is.

pingus

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on December 27, 2020, 07:32:10 PM
Possibly, but she's been publicly for the death penalty before she was home secretary. She was on some thing arguing with Ian Hislop about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DrsVhzbLzU

"You really do need ultimate burden of proof, you really do."

Jesus, she really is dumb as a bag of rocks

Sebastian Cobb

Probably just wants to lock people up with fewer proof.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on December 28, 2020, 02:30:50 AM
Aren't there people who've been sat on death row for the time of a life sentence anyway? Dragging it out for an indefinite period seems uniquely awful.

If I remember correctly, in Japan death row inmates aren't even given advance notice of their execution date. As far as they're concerned, they could be dragged from their cell to the chamber at any time.

Bronzy

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on December 28, 2020, 04:41:02 AM
If I remember correctly, in Japan death row inmates aren't even given advance notice of their execution date. As far as they're concerned, they could be dragged from their cell to the chamber at any time.

It's a bit like a surprise party then, except everyone who turns up hates you and there's no chocolate digestives.

Chedney Honks

The death penalty should be reserved for the ruling classes.

Schlunk.

Next!

BlodwynPig

Quote from: Chedney Honks on December 28, 2020, 05:56:15 AM
The death penalty should be reserved for the ruling classes.

Schlunk.

Next!

I'm closing the mobile guillotine!... for an hour

Sherringford Hovis


Fambo Number Mive

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on December 28, 2020, 04:41:02 AM
If I remember correctly, in Japan death row inmates aren't even given advance notice of their execution date. As far as they're concerned, they could be dragged from their cell to the chamber at any time.

I keep forgetting Japan has the death penalty. It's quite shocking 56 countries still use it.

Statistics from 2019 can be seen here:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/04/death-penalty-in-2019-facts-and-figures/

QuoteAmnesty International recorded 657 executions in 20 countries in 2019, a decrease of 5% compared to 2018 (at least 690). This is the lowest number of executions that Amnesty International has recorded in at least a decade.

Most executions took place in China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Egypt – in that order.

China remained the world's leading executioner – but the true extent of the use of the death penalty in China is unknown as this data is classified as a state secret; the global figure of at least 657 excludes the thousands of executions believed to have been carried out in China.

Excluding China, 86% of all reported executions took place in just four countries – Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Egypt.

Bangladesh and Bahrain resumed executions last year, after a hiatus in 2018. Amnesty International did not report any executions in Afghanistan, Taiwan and Thailand, despite having done so in 2018.

Executions in Iran fell slightly from at least 253 in 2018 to at least 251 in 2019. Executions in Iraq almost doubled from at least 52 in 2018 to at least 100 in 2019, while Saudi Arabia executed a record number of people from 149 in 2018 to 184 in 2019...

Bringing back the rope is one of the rationales for leaving the EU.  There's little the opposition can do if they introduce a private member's Bill and the Tories allow a 'free' vote (which would remove the tricky aspect of this not being in their manifesto).

Or, they could take that fucker Mackenzie's option and hold a referendum.  Let's be honest here - the public would be happy to start stringing people up.  One of the many justifications for a representative democracy is stopping the mob getting their way on stuff like this.

Should this happen, I wonder how many miscarriages of justice it'll take before it's banned again.  It took a few prominent ones previously - and if someone could point out to Kelvin that DNA evidence wouldn't have exonerated Timothy Evans, Derek Bentley or Ruth Ellis - the three most prominent cases which brought state-sanctioned murder to an end - that would be just swell.

jobotic

It will only be used in extreme cases of economic sabotage - taking industrial action or going to tribunals about being bullied out of your job.

Zetetic

Setting aside international reaction, I'd hope that judicial review would actually see off any serious attempt at this while we remained under the ECHR.

I wonder how many judges would actual issue such a sentence (but if we're imagining a dystopia, I suggest the Home Secretary probably issues them herself in deserving cases).

George Oscar Bluth II

OK I don't think this will actually happen (soon, anyway) for a few reasons:

- Wish I could find this but surveys of MPs have shown that Conservative MPs are widely opposed and slightly more opposed to the death penalty than Labour voters. With Labour members and MPs even more opposed obviously.
- We literally can't do it if we're still in the ECHR. The only European country that isn't is Belarus, so extracting ourselves from that is...quite a job

BUT

- Conservative members fucking love the death penalty
- Priti Patel is literally pro-death penalty as this excruciating clip from Question Time shows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5aodBfdFTA
- Priti Patel is widely thought to be on her way out of Cabinet because she's completely fucking useless
- How much longer will our beloved Prime Minister survive in the job with Brexit "done" and the Covid crisis continuing to spiral out of control partly because of his ineptitude and inability to do his fucking job
- Being forced to leave cabinet because she just wants to bring back PROPER justice for the nonces and the traitors is a pretty platform for
- Priti Patel to be next Tory leader and prime minister?

A referendum on the European Convention on Human Rights/repealing the Human Rights Act/bringing back the rope is one of my nightmare scenarios incidentally. Wonder if the Tories have noticed they could stay in power basically forever and repeatedly fuck the Labour Party by having a divisive referendum on a hot button issue once every five to ten years.

Zetetic

Quote from: George Oscar Bluth II on December 28, 2020, 03:08:25 PM
- We literally can't do it if we're still in the ECHR.

Laws aren't magic.

(And it might be argued that we only have to withdraw from certain protocols to be able to legally kill people.)

Fambo Number Mive

Quote from: George Oscar Bluth II on December 28, 2020, 03:08:25 PM
Priti Patel is widely thought to be on her way out of Cabinet because she's completely fucking useless

I didn't know this, I thought most Tory members and cabinet ministers loved her. All that "form a square around the Prittster" shite from Johnson.