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not sure I really get how to rate stand up comedy

Started by willbo, December 30, 2020, 10:37:57 PM

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willbo

I tried to get into stand up a few years ago, and I wasn't really sure how it's quality is measured. Like I saw some Michael Mcintyre on tv, and I thought he was kind of mildly amusing in a time passing way. Then I went on google and found that he's kind of reviled as a conservative (as in conventional and bland, if not politically) comedian. I was kind of surprised...just that it hadn't crossed my mind really.

For example years ago my family got me some Peter Kay videos because I liked his sitcoms/shows. And I watched them and laughed, I liked his funny voices and stories about biscuits and weight loss. Then I heard Frankie Boyle saying how Kay's stuff is like, there's nothing challenging or thought provoking in it. Which I thought was true, but I didn't really get why all stand up had to be. I don't love Kay's stand up enough to want to fight for it or anything, I was just confused. Like a lot of the cool alternative-approved ones like Stewart Lee talk about silly everyday stuff too sometimes.

I've watched ones over the years like Bill Bailey, Eddie Izzard etc and enjoyed them. There was a spot at college where everyone was going on about Lee Evans for ages. I really enjoyed a Jack Dee show on tv once, but I wasn't sure if he was considered a good or crap stand up. I hate Ricky Gervais's ones just for how lazy they sound.

I guess like with sitcoms I feel quite confident in assessing whether one is cool or uncool, left leaning or more conservative, generic or experimental. But stand up seems a more esoteric world.



markburgle

You watch it. You ask yourself "Do I like this - Yes or No?". What's with all the hand wringing?

dissolute ocelot

There's only one metric for good standup: how many callbacks are there?


lankyguy95

If you find it funny then who cares what anyone else says?

Zetetic

Quote from: markburgle on December 31, 2020, 11:19:39 AM
You watch it. You ask yourself "Do I like this - Yes or No?". What's with all the hand wringing?
Welcome to, uh, Comedy Chat.

Zetetic

Quote from: lankyguy95 on December 31, 2020, 11:34:01 AM
If you find it funny then who cares what anyone else says?
Welcome to, uh, Comedy Chat.

Zetetic


Chedney Honks

I was gonna say something funny but can't beat that.

the

Quote from: willbo on December 30, 2020, 10:37:57 PMI tried to get into stand up a few years ago, and I wasn't really sure how it's quality is measured. Like I saw some Michael Mcintyre on tv, and I thought he was kind of mildly amusing in a time passing way. Then I went on google and found that he's kind of reviled as a conservative (as in conventional and bland, if not politically) comedian. I was kind of surprised...just that it hadn't crossed my mind really.

For example years ago my family got me some Peter Kay videos because I liked his sitcoms/shows. And I watched them and laughed, I liked his funny voices and stories about biscuits and weight loss. Then I heard Frankie Boyle saying how Kay's stuff is like, there's nothing challenging or thought provoking in it. Which I thought was true, but I didn't really get why all stand up had to be. I don't love Kay's stand up enough to want to fight for it or anything, I was just confused. Like a lot of the cool alternative-approved ones like Stewart Lee talk about silly everyday stuff too sometimes.

I've watched ones over the years like Bill Bailey, Eddie Izzard etc and enjoyed them. There was a spot at college where everyone was going on about Lee Evans for ages. I really enjoyed a Jack Dee show on tv once, but I wasn't sure if he was considered a good or crap stand up. I hate Ricky Gervais's ones just for how lazy they sound.

I guess like with sitcoms I feel quite confident in assessing whether one is cool or uncool, left leaning or more conservative, generic or experimental. But stand up seems a more esoteric world.

Enjoyment of stand-up can be quite a personal thing (and not just in a 'personal preference' way) - there will usually be 'a hook' about a stand-up that their particular audiences latch onto and seek out.

The more established a stand-up gets, the more they will attract this particular audience that specifically wants to see them (as opposed to playing to whichever room they've found themselves in, when they're an unknown on a bill with other relatively unknown acts).

This 'personal relationship' doesn't mean that you have to 900% agree with everything they ever say ever, nor that you have to fall in love with them and worship them, but there will be some element of their material and their shtick* that resonates with you if you like them.

* By shtick I mean this 'hook' - all comedians have some shtick that defines them from the others - it will relate in some way to their [stage] personality, what they represent, how they react to situations, how they interpret the world, what their viewpoint is, etc etc. But shtick doesn't have to be about 'what this person thinks about X' at all, it can also be purely about giving a comedy performance (in the theatrical sense).

There'a also often a variance between certain comedian's audiences, in how much they want to be surprised versus how much they want to be entertained within comfortably familiar parameters.

From your post you sound a little unsure of yourself and what you're looking for in being entertained, and perhaps listening a bit too much to other peoples' esteem of acts. As mentioned, you don't have to feel duty bound to agree with a stand-up or get something intellectual out of their material in order to confidently say 'yep, I enjoy this'.

Quote from: willbo on December 30, 2020, 10:37:57 PM
I hate Ricky Gervais's ones just for how lazy they sound.


You mean how they sound when you've heard about them at second hand? 



Shoulders?-Stomach!

It is odd to recognise lazily conceited, corporate hackwork when it's occurring in sitcom or sketch format but not recognise it when it's one person standing on a stage.

Icehaven

Quote from: willbo on December 30, 2020, 10:37:57 PM
Then I heard Frankie Boyle saying how Kay's stuff is like, there's nothing challenging or thought provoking in it. Which I thought was true, but I didn't really get why all stand up had to be.

It doesn't. Boyle was presumably just explaining why he didn't like it himself, either because he genuinely only likes comedy that's challenging or thought provoking, or because he wanted to appear as if he does. I suspect the latter, because anyone who claims they've never once laughed at You've Been Framed or a well-timed pie in a face is lying. I don't like Michael Macintyre at all and apart from Phoenix Nights I'm not fussed about Peter Kaye, but I can see a lot of the ire they provoke is because they're so popular, and comedians doing smarter, more complex material understandably get the hump because they're doing gigs to audiences a fraction of the size. But it's the same with music, films, books, any art form isn't it? Simplicity sells, always has done.

thenoise

I think if you had been watching a lot of stand up over a number of years then a few topics start to make you roll your eyes each time they come up. The differences between men and women is a big one - there are, indeed, some differences, but I've sat through so many hours of stand ups pointing them out I doubt a comic's abilities to point out something new. Unhelpful shop staff. Supermarkets. Being drunk/nights out. I enjoyed all this stuff the first time I heard it, but I would much rather hear something a bit different. Which is where your 'cool' comics come in.

I tried to watch Lee Evans 'Monsters' the other day. Ee gad. Absolute textbook stand up cliches, 2 hours of them. Hes a lively performer, likeable and tries really hard, but he needs to hire a writer or four. Bit late now,' but at least we have Mousehunt.

thenoise

All the stand ups you listed are fine, pretty good at what they do. Maybe try some others and see if you like them more,or less. Plenty of Stewart Lee shows on youtube last time I checked.

paruses

One metric I like is if the person is described as "a comic's comic". That way I don't feel bad for not enjoying the set.

I like thenoise's post in terms of seeing where something is boringly derivative. After a (short) while you've heard the jokes before.

The last stuff I watched on the same day was Sean Morley and George Fouracres. SM was very inventive and abstract and narrative but had me laughing consistently for the set. George Fouracres was a lot more traditional observational humour about growing up in the Black Country but had me laughing consistently for the set.

In solidarity with the OP I would say it's harder for me to say why Fouracres was so funny since he took such a well trodden path (albeit it that I haven't heard many routines about Sketchley's in Bloxwich on Live at the Palladium).

Benjaminos

I think the only worthwhile metric (as others have pointed out) is 'did it make you laugh'. I like plenty of standup sets from comedians who are probably considered uncool/too mainstream - Lee Mack, Nick Helm, some early Sarah Millican stuff, and I think I even laughed at a Michael Mcintyre joke once, etc etc.

The trick is to offset it by liking all the liberal elite intelligentsia comics too. I've also gone to a bunch of Stewart Lee and Kitson gigs, so when we're all rounded up and tried as part of the culture wars, I can build a rapport with whichever side looks like it's winning.

My only hard and fast rule is that Nina Conti and Tom Allen are shit.



chocky909

A pretty simple and obvious way to look at this is how, if you haven't been exposed to much comedy in your life then you are not going to appreciate the more 'sophisticated' stuff until you've gone through more 'basic' stuff. It's not a question of quality always but of expectations and innovation. If you've never seen stand up before, the most hackneyed set done decently will blow you away. Maybe later in life you've seen this a million times and seek out something different or at least look for the best examples of each type of comedian.

Years later you end up here where only the most awkward, confusing anti comedy raises a smile...

thenoise

Quote from: Benjaminos on December 31, 2020, 06:05:07 PMI think I even laughed at a Michael Mcintyre joke once, etc etc.
I laughed quite hard at his visual impression of a pair of scissors. It was in the middle of a fairly tedious extended bit about Christmas wrapping paper and it really caught me off guard.

lankyguy95

McIntyre's clearly a very talented performer. Listen to fellow stand ups talk about how difficult it is to follow him on a bill. If it was that easy, far more comics would do what he does.

His style isn't really for me but there are a lot worse than him.

willbo


Mister Six

Makes me laugh loads = four stars
Does that AND has an interesting structure/makes me see things in a new light = five stars

You can work out the ratings below that for yourself.

JesusAndYourBush

If you like something then great, watch it, listen to it and enjoy it.  It doesn't matter if someone else doesnt like it, fuck them, you like it and that's all that matters.

The Lurker

Quote from: lankyguy95 on December 31, 2020, 09:21:16 PM
McIntyre's clearly a very talented performer. Listen to fellow stand ups talk about how difficult it is to follow him on a bill. If it was that easy, far more comics would do what he does.

His style isn't really for me but there are a lot worse than him.

Agreed. He's very good with people, working an audience and - like all arena comics - giving his fans what they want. His stand up isn't my thing but I can see why he's so popular.

McFlymo

Quote from: lankyguy95 on December 31, 2020, 07:03:30 PM
I know what I'd rather have with my pizza.

Garlic bread and pizza?

Garlic bread and pizza?

McFlymo

Quote from: Mister Six on January 01, 2021, 06:06:00 AM
Makes me laugh loads = four stars
Does that AND has an interesting structure/makes me see things in a new light = five stars

You can work out the ratings below that for yourself.

Sometimes I find myself wanting to give some comedians more because I like what they represent, socially / politically, or I have friends who like them and I want to be as impressed as they are. Or the comedian has a certain look and style that I have decided is something I want to like and find amusing, but when I see them perform I'm willing myself to find it funnier than I really do.