John Cleese - Easily The Only Python We Haven't Done A Thread On Yet?

[McChesney Duntz]

Had to be done.[nb](Disclaimer: absolutely did not have to be done.)[/nb]

[Retinend]

This joke is no more! It has ceased to be!

[Phoenix Lazarus]

He's a one-man charity for young gold-digging females.

[lankyguy95]

I think we can all agree that mine was the funniest and this was overkill.

[McChesney Duntz]

Wrong. My forthcoming "Tim Brooke-Taylor - Easily The Best Python Who Wasn't, In Point Of Fact, A Python?" thread - now that'll be overkill.

[lankyguy95]

No that would be the funniest.

[vainsharpdad]

Just wait for my 'Desperate Dan - Easily the best Pie Fan' thread

[Jake Thingray]

Wrong. My forthcoming "Tim Brooke-Taylor - Easily The Best Python Who Wasn't, In Point Of Fact, A Python?" thread - now that'll be overkill.

Good idea, but it's Marty Feldman for me. Rather relieved, on hearing about the New Year's Honours List the other day, that there was no knighthood for Cleese, still hope it won't happen, despite some eager fans' forecasting a while back.

[idunnosomename]

big tall cunt

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

big tall cunt

Annette Funicello demands rewrite.

[dissolute ocelot]

Whatever happened to the SDP?

[DrGreggles]

Whatever happened to the SDP?

They were rebranded. They're now the Sugababes again.

[evilcommiedictator]

There's this amazing news story "Old man was asked for a soundbite that we took out of context for something for clicks"
And now that old man (or his media wench) just doubles down online for more clicks, because being incredibly rich in America is clearly boring as hell

[Revelator]

Rather relieved, on hearing about the New Year's Honours List the other day, that there was no knighthood for Cleese, still hope it won't happen, despite some eager fans' forecasting a while back.

Cleese turned down a peerage--why would he accept a knighthood?

[Menu]

Good idea, but it's Marty Feldman for me. Rather relieved, on hearing about the New Year's Honours List the other day, that there was no knighthood for Cleese, still hope it won't happen, despite some eager fans' forecasting a while back.

MF always seems really pretentious and pompous in interviews. Puts me off.

Surely Cleese wouldn't accept a knighthood.

[Jake Thingray]

MF always seems really pretentious and pompous in interviews. Puts me off.

Surely Cleese wouldn't accept a knighthood.

Can't see that in Marty's interviews at all, to be honest. Have mentioned this before on CaB, so apologies for the repetition, but Jonathan Margolis, near the end of his biography Cleese Encounters, states its subject "surely cannot be far off the ultimate indignity of being made Sir John Cleese". This may have seemed likely to eventually happen at the time of that book's first publication in 1992, but not now, after too long dwelling in the not-funny-any-more pastures, and latterly, unfortunate Twitter moanings. Leaving aside Python, the solo Hollywood career silly sods like me hoped he would continue to have after A Fish Called Wanda was over in a few years, and lasted for about as long as the aforementioned Marty's (in terms of British comedy performers as Hollywood film stars, Dudley Moore actually had a longer tenure).

May seem a daft analogy, but looking at the 1950's kitchen sink playwrights, Harold Pinter ended up a Companion of Honour, Arnold Wesker was knighted but John Osborne got nowt; defenders of Osborne might claim he was too radical to be honoured, but it's more likely his later theatrical failures and increasingly reactionary views worked against him, I see Cleese as similar. It really does make me very sad to say this, but in Britain now, Fawlty Towers, once seen as an imperishable classic and regularly repeated, is now some steps below Dad's Army and Only Fools And Horses in the public's affections.

If a Python had to be knighted at all, Palin doesn't seem a bad choice. Not only was he a fine actor in GBH and his 1980's films, but he made a highly successful second career out of the travel stuff, a very British, modest way of knowing when to change horses. Unlike Cleese and Idle tiresomely going on being "wacky and zany", mainly for American audiences.

[Menu]

Yes I agree very much with your last paragraph. I find that americanised 'silliness' very irksome and not quite in the spirit of the original output. Palin's not immune to that either though. Don't get me started about how they themselves have forgotten the original meaning of 'Always Look On The Bright Side of Life' either. They seem, especially Idle, quite happy for it to become a sort of comedy national anthem, thereby removing the punch in the gut that it should leave audiences with at the end of LOB. All that 'crowd conducting' they did to it at the live shows made me feel queasy. It's not meant to be rousing or joyous, it's meant to represent the last injustice Brian is put through before he dies. All these idiots on crosses singing along to this rubbish song while they all get fucking crucified. And then they start whistling! And Brian has to suffer it all, after every other indignity he's just been put through.

But it's got completely stripped of that meaning by the Pythons themselves and is now just a rubbish song that Eric Idle can lead the idiot crowds through at the Royal Jubilee. Ugh. We are all Brian now.

Where was I....?

Ah I think I was saying not that Cleese might not be offered a knighthood but that surely he wouldn't accept one? He might have been offered one already of course and done the right thing.

The Feldman interview I've seen most often is that one he does with other writers/performers on the meaning/purpose of comedy? I think he gets into a barney with Johnny Speight about something or other. I think I agreed with his point but he made it in such an unctuous way it put me off a bit.

[Autopsy Turvey]

Don't get me started about how they themselves have forgotten the original meaning of 'Always Look On The Bright Side of Life' either. They seem, especially Idle, quite happy for it to become a sort of comedy national anthem, thereby removing the punch in the gut that it should leave audiences with at the end of LOB. All that 'crowd conducting' they did to it at the live shows made me feel queasy. It's not meant to be rousing or joyous, it's meant to represent the last injustice Brian is put through before he dies. All these idiots on crosses singing along to this rubbish song while they all get fucking crucified. And then they start whistling! And Brian has to suffer it all, after every other indignity he's just been put through.

Whenever I hear it discussed by the Pythons, they say it was simply conceived as a deliberate and complete contrast to the miserable circumstances, solely to end the film on an upbeat note. It's a song about relieving sadness with humour and laughter in the face of despair, I've never heard any Python claim it was meant to be the final grinding indignity for the harrowed and dying Brian. It used to annoy me too, its misappropriation by 'plebs' as a mindless 'cheer up mate' terrace chant, but happily I'm over that. It is rousing and joyous, and the crowd conducting had an inescapable layer of irony with it, flagged up by Cleese physically forcing his mouth into an exaggeratedly wide grin.

[kalowski]

Good idea, but it's Marty Feldman for me. Rather relieved, on hearing about the New Year's Honours List the other day, that there was no knighthood for Cleese, still hope it won't happen, despite some eager fans' forecasting a while back.

John Cleese, in 1999, stated that he "did not wish to spend winters in England" and being a peer would be "ridiculous", had previously declined appointment as CBE in 1996

[dissolute ocelot]

They seem more reluctant to give honours to people who fuck off overseas and don't pay taxes in the UK (I assume Cleese doesn't). Unless they're good friends of the PM. Apparently even Lewis Hamilton's sir was controversial. And Lords are really meant to pay UK tax, after rows over Lord Ashcroft of Belize. I suspect Cleese was holding out for an OM or CH (playwrights were mentioned but another analogy is Hockney/Bacon/Lucian Freud; most held out for big prizes but Bacon considered himself Irish and fuck the Queen.)

[Revelator]

In Cleese's words: "Paddy [Ashdown] was going to offer me one when he ceased to be leader of the Lib Dems, for political services -- not because I was such a wonderful human being, and because I'd helped them [Lib Dems] a lot. But I realised this involved being in England in the winter and I thought that was too much of a price to pay."

[Jake Thingray]

Cleese's present reputation in Britain might be higher if, instead of Hold the Sunset which nobody watched, he'd taken over from Timothy West as Lee Mack's father-in-law in Not Going Out, rather than Geoffrey Whitehead.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

Cleese's present reputation in Britain might be higher if, instead of Hold the Sunset which nobody watched, he'd taken over from Timothy West as Lee Mack's father-in-law in Not Going Out, rather than Geoffrey Whitehead.

I can actually imaginie him doing quite well in that role. Just imagine him verbally sparring away with Bobby Ball.

[Jockice]

Whenever I hear it discussed by the Pythons, they say it was simply conceived as a deliberate and complete contrast to the miserable circumstances, solely to end the film on an upbeat note. It's a song about relieving sadness with humour and laughter in the face of despair, I've never heard any Python claim it was meant to be the final grinding indignity for the harrowed and dying Brian. It used to annoy me too, its misappropriation by 'plebs' as a mindless 'cheer up mate' terrace chant, but happily I'm over that. It is rousing and joyous, and the crowd conducting had an inescapable layer of irony with it, flagged up by Cleese physically forcing his mouth into an exaggeratedly wide grin.

The first time I saw it happen was on a children's TV programme in the early 80s so not that long after the film came out) when there was a group of kids and an adult with a guitar doing a totally straight version (without any naughty words obviously). I was still in my mid teens at the time but was practically screaming at the screen: "You really don't get it do you?"

I remember mentioning this to a friend of mine, a very intelligent bloke, Cambridge graduate, huge Python fan, and he just looked puzzled and said: "But it is a song about looking on the bright side of life." So even he didn't see it in the same way that I (and obviously Menu) did.

Once a song is out there, it's up to the public what it becomes known for. I'm just grateful the same thing never happened to Every Sperm Is Sacred.

[Glebe]

Just starting reading his bio, So, Anyway... which he Sis got me for Christmas (along with the new David Jason book). His wry prose style reminds me Terry Pratchett, oddly enough. If Terry Pratchett was writing about John Cleese's personal life.

[Revelator]

At the moment I'm a series-and-a-half into the 2019 DVD set of At Last the 1948 Show. Now that almost all of the show is available for viewing, it's clear how much Cleese dominates it. Chapman is underused and often plays straightmen and stolid authority figures. As a performer Cleese hasn't yet reached his peak--he's a little rawer and a good deal more shouty than in the Flying Circus. And the Chapman/Cleese sketches are less intricate and more aggressive and violent here. It's very much a young man's show.

Watching the near-complete 1948 also suggests why Cleese was so avid to work with Palin. Excellent as Brooke-Taylor and Feldman are, Palin was a better--more substantial--foil. Acting with Cleese, Brooke-Taylor's characters tend to be flighty and nervous--naturally overwhelmed--and Feldman's are needling and grotesque, even without visuals. They yielded fine results, but as a comedic actor Palin had a "solidity" that better complemented (and pushed back against) Cleese's presence.

[TheMonk]

It really does make me very sad to say this, but in Britain now, Fawlty Towers, once seen as an imperishable classic and regularly repeated, is now some steps below Dad's Army and Only Fools And Horses in the public's affections.

Only Fools possibly, Dad's Army surely not.

[dissolute ocelot]

Only Fools possibly, Dad's Army surely not.

Kind of off topic, but Dad's Army popularity seems to have declined since the 2016 film. It's not repeated as often.

I think Cleese could have done more proper acting if he'd been bothered; he was never going to play King Lear, but certainly his work in comic roles shows he could have played in more stuff he hadn't (co)written.

[Alternative Carpark]

I think Cleese could have done more proper acting if he'd been bothered; he was never going to play King Lear, but certainly his work in comic roles shows he could have played in more stuff he hadn't (co)written.

Although he did play Petruchio in Jonathan Miller's production of The Taming Of The Shrew, so he has some Shakespeare experience.

[Fr.Bigley]

Kind of off topic, but Dad's Army popularity seems to have declined since the 2016 film. It's not repeated as often.

It's never been off since early December, then the documentary then talking pictures immediately afterwards about John le mesurier.