Characters added late to a sitcom that the writers love that you hate.

[bigfatheart]

Pretty sure most of those were introduced in the first season - I was watching a few episodes recently and sure that Bulldog, Gill and Noel featured. I think I would really call all recurring characters. Not a huge depth to them to be sure, but I was particularly fond of Gill and Bulldog.

Yep, Bulldog's the designated 'next in line after the main cast' supporting character from the off, and both Noel and Gil show up in the first season. Kenny comes in at the very end of the fifth season, and does start to get a lot more focus in the last couple of seasons, more than the character demands I'd say.

I love the show, but its biggest flaw (for me) was that outside of a small handful of good supporting characters - and I'd agree on Gil and Bulldog being among them - most characters outside the central cast were dull or irritating, something which only got worse over time. I'm not sure if the nadir would be Kirby, the Sideshow Bob-haired slacker cliché, his Mum, a tedious and unconvincing love interest for Frasier, or Felicity Huffman's character, who was an even more tedious and unconvincing love interest for Frasier. Hmm, might be a theme there.

[neveragain]

Hated Kirby and his Sex and the City-ish mom, and never cared for the Cam Winston plots, but liked Felicity Huffman's character and that whole sub-plot. Frasier's co-workers and Daphne's (intentionally) multi-accented family were also funny enough to get a pass.

[dead-ced-dead]

Hated Kirby and his Sex and the City-ish mom, and never cared for the Cam Winston plots, but liked Felicity Huffman's character and that whole sub-plot. Frasier's co-workers and Daphne's (intentionally) multi-accented family were also funny enough to get a pass.

The Felicity Huffman character elicited one of Frasier's best freak outs.

"Hey Frasier, nice towels, it's like an old woman lived here."
"GET OUT!"

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Kramer

[Thursday]

He wasn't introduced late, you're thinking of Elaine.

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Easily confused, those two.

[stonkers]

Pretty sure most of those were introduced in the first season - I was watching a few episodes recently and sure that Bulldog, Gill and Noel featured. I think I would really call all recurring characters. Not a huge depth to them to be sure, but I was particularly fond of Gill and Bulldog.

Bulldog got as far as being a regular, opening credits character for a few seasons. In fact was there not some talk of a Bulldog spinoff at one point?

I always thought Gill was the best candidate if they wanted to do a spinoff but he was maybe a bit zany to be a main character.

[Icehaven]

Bulldog got as far as being a regular, opening credits character for a few seasons. In fact was there not some talk of a Bulldog spinoff at one point?

I always thought Gill was the best candidate if they wanted to do a spinoff but he was maybe a bit zany to be a main character.

I'd have loved a Gil spinoff and it'd have been interesting to see how they handled a sitcom about a closeted gay man in the early 2000s. Might have been considered a bit outdated coming a while after Ellen and Will and Grace though, unless decloseting him was dealt with fairly early on, although that was a major facet of the character in Frasier so he'd had to have been fleshed out in a completely different direction, as it were.

[willbo]

Are there any long running sitcoms which are generally considered good/classic/watchable in their later series/seasons? I always thought King of the Hill and Malcolm in the Middle had nicely surreal later seasons.

[Bobloblawslawbomb]

Are there any long running sitcoms which are generally considered good/classic/watchable in their later series/seasons? I always thought King of the Hill and Malcolm in the Middle had nicely surreal later seasons.

It's always sunny in Philadelphia still put out at least 4-5 high quality episodes per season from s8 onwards

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

I'm actually quite a fan of the bizarre arc that " Not Going Out" followed, starting off as a sitcom about Tim and Lee joking their way through life, with Tim's American girlfriend completing the trio of wisecracking funsters. Then the American actress  fucked off after one series, so they had to change it to Lee moving in with Tim's sister,  retaining  the nucleus of the daft laugh duo, and Tim's Sister would also join in with her own jokes when she wasn't telling Lee to fuck off and stop trying to get into her knickers. Timalso acquired a sitcom trope classic, the chronically dim person who wouldn't actually be able to function in real life, in the form of his unintelligent girlfriend. Anyway, when Tim fucked off after five series, his alarmingly thick girlfriend remained, and would more often than not hang out with Lee and Lucy ( Tim's Sister), to form another trio of jolly jokers, and never mentioning Tim again, which might seem a bit strange I suppose, but the gags kept - a- comin. Lee also acquired a new friend in the form of Top Slight Jah Wobble lookalike Hugh Dennis, married to a woman who appeared to absolutely fucking hate him for more trad sit com laughs, then Lucy married Lee despite spending about six series telling him to fuck off and stop trying to shag her, then the series fast forwarded to about eight years into the fucking future, and Lee and Lucy were married with three kids, the unintelligent to the point of mentally impaired girlfriend fucked off, and the cast was augmented by Lucy's parents, who joined the rest of the cast in never, ever mentioning Tim,Lucy's fucking brother, and their own fucking son ever, ever again, He doesn't even come to visit the cunts at Christmas, and they never mention him, fucking NEVER, and Bobby Ball, and the three kids didn't actually fuck off in later series, but they very rarely would be present for the storylines, and the show remains part of BBC 1's glittering comedy line up to this very day, through all them permutations.
And I don't think there's ever been a duff series. Always makes me laugh, so it does. A lot of the episodes are quite well plotted, but I think Lee Mack is just content to get gag after gag out there, which is what a comedy show should be doing, really. So that's my contribution to the recent more positive tone this thread has taken. I'm wondering if I should just have started a separate thread specifically devoted to " Not Going Out" now.
Oh yeah, Miranda Hart played a clumsy cleaner in the early serieses too, innit?

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"Ricky Gervais" in the office

[Starlit]

I'm actually quite a fan of the bizarre arc that " Not Going Out" followed, starting off as a sitcom about Tim and Lee joking their way through life, with Tim's American girlfriend completing the trio of wisecracking funsters. Then the American actress  fucked off after one series, so they had to change it to Lee moving in with Tim's sister,  retaining  the nucleus of the daft laugh duo, and Tim's Sister would also join in with her own jokes when she wasn't telling Lee to fuck off and stop trying to get into her knickers. Timalso acquired a sitcom trope classic, the chronically dim person who wouldn't actually be able to function in real life, in the form of his unintelligent girlfriend. Anyway, when Tim fucked off after five series, his alarmingly thick girlfriend remained, and would more often than not hang out with Lee and Lucy ( Tim's Sister), to form another trio of jolly jokers, and never mentioning Tim again, which might seem a bit strange I suppose, but the gags kept - a- comin. Lee also acquired a new friend in the form of Top Slight Jah Wobble lookalike Hugh Dennis, married to a woman who appeared to absolutely fucking hate him for more trad sit com laughs, then Lucy married Lee despite spending about six series telling him to fuck off and stop trying to shag her, then the series fast forwarded to about eight years into the fucking future, and Lee and Lucy were married with three kids, the unintelligent to the point of mentally impaired girlfriend fucked off, and the cast was augmented by Lucy's parents, who joined the rest of the cast in never, ever mentioning Tim,Lucy's fucking brother, and their own fucking son ever, ever again, He doesn't even come to visit the cunts at Christmas, and they never mention him, fucking NEVER, and Bobby Ball, and the three kids didn't actually fuck off in later series, but they very rarely would be present for the storylines, and the show remains part of BBC 1's glittering comedy line up to this very day, through all them permutations.
And I don't think there's ever been a duff series. Always makes me laugh, so it does. A lot of the episodes are quite well plotted, but I think Lee Mack is just content to get gag after gag out there, which is what a comedy show should be doing, really. So that's my contribution to the recent more positive tone this thread has taken. I'm wondering if I should just have started a separate thread specifically devoted to " Not Going Out" now.
Oh yeah, Miranda Hart played a clumsy cleaner in the early serieses too, innit?

I've never really thought about the show arc before, but you're right, it's very odd.

Lucy and Lee managed to move to what appears to be a three bedroom detached house in a nice suburb of, presumably, London. (Coincidentally their upstairs neighbours Hugh Dennis and his wife also moved to the same area).
However, Lee definitely doesn't work and I don't think we see Lucy working any more. She said something about seeing parents at the school everyday which suggests that she probably doesn't have a 9 to 5 job.
At least in the earlier series Lucy had a job in PR that I believe could have paid for the flat that they lived in.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

Lee *does* work, he's a car salesman.
I really don't think Lee Mack's that arsed about realism, as long as he can knock out decent gags.

[Starlit]

Lee *does* work, he's a car salesman.
I really don't think Lee Mack's that arsed about realism, as long as he can knock out decent gags.

I think I've seen every episode of Not Going Out, most more than once when they've been on. I have no recollection of Lee being a car salesman. I can remember the hilarious one off jobs, such as handing out leaflets dressed in a silly costume, but not anything like a proper job.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

He was an ice cream man for a while, wasn't he?
The only reason I know he's supposed to be a car salesman in the current incarnation of the series is that he mentions to one of his kids , in one of the episodes when he could be fucked with writing the kids into the show, that he sells cars.
( maybe this show * should* have its own thread?)

[lankyguy95]

( maybe this show * should* have its own thread?

It's got one

https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,84330.0.html

[Phil_A]

Definitely Gil in the Simpsons. The kind-of character who been fine as a one-of spoof of Jack Lemmon in Glengarry Glenn Ross, but then they started putting him in every episode and the joke got thin verrrry quickly. It was one the early signs that the show was past it's peak and heading into decline, if only we'd known how bad things would get after that.

[thr0b]

Lee *does* work, he's a car salesman.
I really don't think Lee Mack's that arsed about realism, as long as he can knock out decent gags.

And of course, Tim did come back for the wedding episode.

I like the show. It exists as a vehicle for bits of Mack's stand up (and in earlier episodes, Vine's), in a similar way to Seinfeld/Raymond. Let the jokes inform the logic, rather than the other way around.

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Growler - a needlessly upscaled Werebear that had no transformative abilities and came with his own laugh track voice box



mate if you're so good we can do our own laughter at you

[Botty Cello]

I always thought Gill was the best candidate if they wanted to do a spinoff

Good point, but the elephant in the room was Daphne. You could always tell she was acting. The show got 37 Emmys and she didn't get one. Even the dog upstaged her.

[AsparagusTrevor]

Definitely Gil in the Simpsons. The kind-of character who been fine as a one-of spoof of Jack Lemmon in Glengarry Glenn Ross, but then they started putting him in every episode and the joke got thin verrrry quickly. It was one the early signs that the show was past it's peak and heading into decline, if only we'd known how bad things would get after that.

Same for Disco Stu, he was a great punchline one time, no need to keep bringing him back.

Family Guy was/is also a bastard for this. Looking at you, Greased-up Deaf Guy.

[St_Eddie]

Same for Disco Stu, he was a great punchline one time, no need to keep bringing him back.

"Mmm yeah, baby.  Time for something new, no more Disco Stu."