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Kurosawa

Started by Chedney Honks, January 04, 2021, 10:23:05 PM

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Chedney Honks

Yeah.

Let's just do it.

Fucking mind-blowing how amazing this guy's direction is. You can tell a Kurosawa shot in about a second. There's so much energy or drama or movement, some kind of force, depth, layered emotion or symbolism, symbiosis of man and nature. I love the broad strokes and boldness of the performances he gets, but there's also often so much depth and nuance there.

Entry level as fuck choice but Seven Samurai is the one for me. Every time I watching it, I come back away more amazed at how much is in every shot. How can that be planned even? I guess it's like Virgil or Homer, beyond the conceived impacts, there's just a density of layers and emotions mirrored and heightened and subverted through unconscious familiarity, appreciation and genius for the tools and form.

What do you like about Akira Kurosawa films?

wasp_f15ting

I love Ikiru for its restraint and slow building energy, I haven't seen it a number of years and have the Criterion on order. So shall come back after my re-watch but that movie just hit me so hard.

sevendaughters

I like that he does seemingly disparate things (stillness/motion, chaos/procedure, image-telling/word-telling, etc) incredibly masterfully. I like that his work transcends his national context (he's considered too American by Japanese cinephiles) in a way that suggests a certain universality to his work. I like that there is a moral philosophy at the heart of his work that isn't posturing and simplistic. I like how he bridges the arthouse-mainstream gulf. I like his love of gentle humour. I like how he wore his heart on his sleeve, so when he got depressed and nihilistic and tried to kill himself, it came out in his later work. I like how his list of his favourite films includes films being made not long before he died, suggesting someone who was really engaged with the practice he was in.

Sin Agog

His autobiography's worth a read.  It culminates just after the release of Rashomon as he didn't want the mythos to eclipse all the nitty-gritty filmy shit.  The thing that sticks with you the most is his short-lived older brother making little Aki walk through town and face the victims of an earthquake to harden up (the same brother killed himself a few years later).  Watching him describe the elaborate hierarchy of the Japanese film industry was quite interesting to get into as well.  There are a ton of pre-war masterpieces like Humanity & Paper Balloons* and Mr. Thank You that are all-but lost to the world, but they had one of the most humane film industries at the time, so it was nice to hear more about some of its participants who made their bones at the same time as A.K.


I once got so hyped up after a viewing of Seven Samurai that I tried to ball up a clump of basmati rice.  Everyone in the movie all drooled over that shit like it was manna from Devon, but...well, it just tasted like rice.  My cousin said they flavoured them by boiling the rice in bamboo, but I can't imagine that'd make such a massive difference.  Piece of shit film.

*I see Kurosawa dropped that guy's other surviving film, Sazen Tange and the Pot Worth a Million Ryo, on his list

wasp_f15ting

Thanks for that list, some great films on there, I need to get into the Wim filmography.

sevendaughters

Quote from: Sin Agog on January 04, 2021, 10:46:42 PM
Watching him describe the elaborate hierarchy of the Japanese film industry was quite interesting to get into as well.

He goes into this in this 2hr interview with Oshima. Very hierarchical and rigid. Having to jump through hoops to get his first gig. Opposite of the BBC in the 60s where you could rock up and say "I'd like to direct a TV play please!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwIYlXffoMk

Sin Agog

Ta for the link!  I'm super curious how the poster child of the New Wave and Kurosawa got on.  I imagine Oshima was much more of a Europhile than Kurosawa and his Fordian ways.

Sin Agog

#7
Just thought I'd redeem myself for killing the thread by linking to this guy's Internet Archive page which has quite a few great Kurosawa fillums available to stream, amidst a load of other old Nipponny goodness like Kwaidan, Onibaba, Tokyo Drifter, tons of Kamen Riders etc.  Immense resource- I remember the same dude used to have a youtube channel which I assume must have gotten too many notices. https://archive.org/details/miscellaneous-japanese-tv?&sort=-week&page=4

I can still remember randomly picking up a Kurosawa joint- Hidden Fortress, I think- in my first foray to the foreign video shelf.  I think T.F.V.S. must have only had about fifteen movies on it total, but four of them were by Kurosawa and it tore open a strange new world for me where not everything was pre-emptively sanitised for the theoretically confused.  Cheers, The Foreign Video Shelf.

bgmnts

Seven Samurai, Hidden Fortress, Yojimbo and Throne of Blood.

Beautiful.

Urinal Cake

Yeah he's a great bunch of lads. Obviously his 'period pieces' are great but Ikiru is a great example of how to make a 'soppy' film.

Magnum Valentino

Ched you know your stuff when it comes to these things, would the BFI blu-ray set do me alright to get started or is it worth going for the more expensive (but supposedly better) individual Criterion sets?

Chedney Honks

Quote from: Magnum Valentino on January 05, 2021, 08:48:40 AM
Ched you know your stuff when it comes to these things, would the BFI blu-ray set do me alright to get started or is it worth going for the more expensive (but supposedly better) individual Criterion sets?

That BFI Samurai Collection set is excellent, great quality images, sound is as good as you can get pretty much. The film selection is obviously somewhat narrow, but they are all quite different and frankly, they're all brilliant. It's worth it for Seven Samurai and Yojimbo alone. As a collection it's a steal and a great place to start.

It's on sale at HMV for £25:

https://store.hmv.com/store/film-tv/blu-ray/kurosawa-samurai-collection?gclid=CjwKCAiAudD_BRBXEiwAudakX3SEI9cHrRxXRrpkmMWUq44iAmFhp0XiYXsVzUWrEy3W9nGBjBBfNxoCzYYQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I've only got one of the Criterion releases (Seven Samurai) and while it's a little better, and has reams of extras, it cost me almost twice as much as that entire set. I justified it for one of my absolute favourite films but I wouldn't do it for anything else there. No need at all.

If you want to see Kurosawa in colour, Ran (1985) is a another absolute classic and the UK BD is great. It's actually a Studio Canal '4K Restoration' in 1080p and it's this one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Digitally-Restored-Blu-ray-Tatsuya-Nakadai/dp/B01BF2766W/ref=asc_df_B01BF2766W/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=259612670385&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=258415751533665548&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006523&hvtargid=pla-574461298446&psc=1&th=1&psc=1

I'm being specific because there are some underwhelming BD releases of Ran, so this is the one to go for. It's a true epic.

Would definitely be interested in your thoughts as and when.

touchingcloth

I've always fancied getting into Kurosawa, but the >200 min running time of Seven Samurai has always proven a barrier because I'm extremely busy and important. Is there a cut where there's just a couple of samurai which I can toe the waters with?

Chedney Honks

Quote from: touchingcloth on January 05, 2021, 09:40:17 AM
I've always fancied getting into Kurosawa, but the >200 min running time of Seven Samurai has always proven a barrier because I'm extremely busy and important. Is there a cut where there's just a couple of samurai which I can toe the waters with?

Well, it's literally never been described this way because it's laughably inaccurate but Yojimbo kind of is 'The One Samurai'. You still get peak Kurosawa and peak Toshiro Mifune, some similar themes, great little story and a more manageable running time.

Or do what I do and watch films in half-hour chunks because I am constantly knackered!

sevendaughters

apropos of nothing I decided that my own criteria for 'favourite directors' should be "how many great films do I think they've made", not really good films, great ones that shake you out of your boots, and I haven't seen all of Kurosawa but I had him on 6 (Rashomon, Ikiru, Seven Samurai, Yojimbo, Kagemusha, Ran) which is as many as Hitchcock and that's the most I can think - in my still limited experience of cinema - anyone has had.

greenman

Quote from: wasp_f15ting on January 04, 2021, 10:48:18 PM
Thanks for that list, some great films on there, I need to get into the Wim filmography.

Paris Texas is definitely an easy recommendation, the recent German remaster especially...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Paris-Texas-Digital-Remastered-Blu-ray/dp/B07YMFVRWL/ref=tmm_blu_title_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

I think you can see why he'd love that as well since he did obviously take quite a bit from John Ford and other westerns, why his plotlines were easy to recycle back into westerns I spose.




wasp_f15ting

Quote from: greenman on January 05, 2021, 10:50:34 AM
Paris Texas is definitely an easy recommendation, the recent German remaster especially...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Paris-Texas-Digital-Remastered-Blu-ray/dp/B07YMFVRWL/ref=tmm_blu_title_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

I think you can see why he'd love that as well since he did obviously take quite a bit from John Ford and other westerns, why his plotlines were easy to recycle back into westerns I spose.

I was thinking of getting the Criterion version, is this better?

On Kurosawa has anyone seen Dreams ? - worth a pick up?

sevendaughters

Quote from: wasp_f15ting on January 05, 2021, 11:11:17 AM
I was thinking of getting the Criterion version, is this better?

On Kurosawa has anyone seen Dreams ? - worth a pick up?

it's lovely to look at. not sure it's one of his better films in other respects, but a visual treat. i prefer his last film proper (Madadayo) as a thing to watch.

notjosh

My favourite is Red Beard. Melodramatic to the extreme, but the beautiful photography and Mifune's stoic beard-tugging performance somehow make it work. A couple of properly heartbreaking scenes in that:

Spoiler alert
Red Beard telling the daughter of the old man who died horribly that he had a peaceful end, and her thanking him because after all he had endured, anything else would be too cruel.

The little girl shouting down the well to stop her friend from joining the afterlife.
[close]

Chedney Honks

I've never seen Red Beard but I really should.

Just watched half of Yojimbo this evening and Mifune is simply at the peak of his powers. He does and says very little besides amble around wryly but he's utterly magnetic. I've got to go to bed but I can't wait for tomorrow when I can finish it.

greenman

#20
I think you could argue Yojimbo might be the single most influential film post WW2, besides the plot being recycled so many times Mifunes performance doesnt just sign post to the modern anti hero its theer just about fully formed and could be dropped into anything since without feeling outdated.

Quote from: wasp_f15ting on January 05, 2021, 11:11:17 AM
I was thinking of getting the Criterion version, is this better?

On Kurosawa has anyone seen Dreams ? - worth a pick up?

That version is better, a recent remaster, the Criterion uses the same older master as the standard UK bluray, not bad but the new one is one of the best looking BR's I'v ever seen and as close as you can get to UHD without having it. Only negative of the German version is no english subs, it does have the original english language track.

Personally I think Paris; Texas, Kings of the Road and Wings of Desire are Wenders best.

Sin Agog

I remember Alice in the Cities being really touching in an unsentimental kind of way.  Getting a knock-off Wenders box-set in the early days of ebay and seeing some of the completely ill-judged shite he did in the '90s and '00s (not including WOD and Buena here) made me question what I saw in those earlier films, but I guess a person has a right to a heyday and a purple patch without everything else they do throwing shade on it.  Lightning Over Water was also pretty interesting as a Nicholas Ray fan, getting to be invited in on his death.  Some of Wenders' films have a weirdly stagnant anti-atmosphere, though, like being in an anechoic chamber.


By the way, I still wish more people would watch Kurosawa's Dersu Uzala.  It's such a sweet, sad movie which touches on so many big subjects with perfect grace.  It also still has some of those scenes of perfect action-directing synergy for the Samurai cats, albeit with nature as the sometimes ally, sometimes opponent.  May be my favourite of his.

touchingcloth

Quote from: Chedney Honks on January 05, 2021, 10:03:52 AM
Well, it's literally never been described this way because it's laughably inaccurate but Yojimbo kind of is 'The One Samurai'. You still get peak Kurosawa and peak Toshiro Mifune, some similar themes, great little story and a more manageable running time.

Or do what I do and watch films in half-hour chunks because I am constantly knackered!

I don't think one samurai would give me enough of the Kurosawa experience. Is there anything like Two Samurais and a Little Lady?

sevendaughters

Quote from: touchingcloth on January 06, 2021, 04:07:39 PM
I don't think one samurai would give me enough of the Kurosawa experience. Is there anything like Two Samurais and a Little Lady?

how about one bandit, one samurai, one little lady, and a ghost?

greenman

Quote from: Sin Agog on January 06, 2021, 03:40:47 PM
I remember Alice in the Cities being really touching in an unsentimental kind of way.  Getting a knock-off Wenders box-set in the early days of ebay and seeing some of the completely ill-judged shite he did in the '90s and '00s (not including WOD and Buena here) made me question what I saw in those earlier films, but I guess a person has a right to a heyday and a purple patch without everything else they do throwing shade on it.  Lightning Over Water was also pretty interesting as a Nicholas Ray fan, getting to be invited in on his death.  Some of Wenders' films have a weirdly stagnant anti-atmosphere, though, like being in an anechoic chamber.

By the way, I still wish more people would watch Kurosawa's Dersu Uzala.  It's such a sweet, sad movie which touches on so many big subjects with perfect grace.  It also still has some of those scenes of perfect action-directing synergy for the Samurai cats, albeit with nature as the sometimes ally, sometimes opponent.  May be my favourite of his.

Not easy to get hold of and I'm been holding off watching it hoping for some kind of remaster like a lot of other Mosfilm stuff in recent years.

Wings of Desire does I spose signpost the problems we both likely have with his latter work, on the face of it the concept is very arch and having Faulk/Cave playing themselves does seem like celeb pandering but the former espeically I think works wonderfully.

touchingcloth

Quote from: sevendaughters on January 06, 2021, 04:12:24 PM
how about one bandit, one samurai, one little lady, and a ghost?

That's more than half of seven. What's the runtime?

sevendaughters

Watched High and Low tonight. B-tier Kurosawa is still incredible. Three distinct parts (chamber play, police procedural, trap-setting) that just loses a little steam toward the end. Mifune plays slightly against type as a businessman scared of feeling shame, but being shamed into paying 30m yen for a ransom. Loads of great touches.

GoblinAhFuckScary

Quote from: sevendaughters on January 07, 2021, 01:00:00 AM
Watched High and Low tonight. B-tier Kurosawa is still incredible. Three distinct parts (chamber play, police procedural, trap-setting) that just loses a little steam toward the end. Mifune plays slightly against type as a businessman scared of feeling shame, but being shamed into paying 30m yen for a ransom. Loads of great touches.

I watched that for the first time last week! I thought it was terribly well-executed. Quite Hitchcock? Mifune's less cheeky and more refrained performance is wonderful

Twit 2

#28
Quote from: Chedney Honks on January 04, 2021, 10:23:05 PM
Fucking mind-blowing how amazing this guy's direction is. You can tell a Kurosawa shot in about a second. There's so much energy or drama or movement, some kind of force, depth, layered emotion or symbolism, symbiosis of man and nature. I love the broad strokes and boldness of the performances he gets, but there's also often so much depth and nuance there.

https://youtu.be/doaQC-S8de8

Good thread. Takes me back to 2003 when you could become an art house connoisseur off the back of a coupla visits to FOPP.

Chedney Honks

#29
Whew. I am one insightful mother fucker. Never even done film studies GCSE.

Also, there's no no need to be a bad guy. People are just having a very nice time.