Post-Brexit fallout - we can't have our cake or eat it

[Mr_Simnock]

I wonder if ironically red tape is in fact still easy to export.

[paruses]

Are there any pro-Brexit stories being made up pushed? I do my utmost not to look at the Mail or Express or that lot but I remember a notification on my phone from The Mail that Waitrose shelves were bare because of Brexit a few days ago.

Just wondered if the strategy for now was to ignore rather than propagandize things (might have made that verb up).

[Fambo Number Mive]

"I had no idea at all I was going to be charged any more for deliveries after Brexit... the extra costs were definitely a bit of a shock."

Ellie Huddleston, a 26-year-old Londoner, thought she would treat herself to some new work clothes in the January sales.

Having spotted a bargain, she placed an order for a coat and a number of blouses from two of her favourite clothes brands based in Europe.

But both deliveries were delayed, held up in customs checks for at least a week, she says.

She was surprised when she then received a text from courier company DPD, containing a link asking her to pay £58 in additional charges for her £180 order.

On top of that, the UPS courier for the second parcel showed up at her door several days later, asking for an extra payment of £82 for her £200 coat.

"I didn't even know when the parcels would be coming - so I sent both back without paying the extra fees and won't be ordering anything from Europe again any time soon."...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277

[Fambo Number Mive]

In other Brexit news, the UK is refusing to give EU ambassador  Joao Vale de Almeida the full diplomatic status that is granted to other ambassadors.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55742664

...The Foreign Office is insisting he and his officials should not have the privileges and immunities afforded to diplomats under the Vienna Convention.

It is understood not to want to set a precedent by treating an international body in the same way as a nation state.

As it stands, the ambassador would not have the chance to present his credentials to the Queen like other diplomatic heads of mission.

The British decision is in marked contrast to 142 other countries around the world where the EU has delegations and where its ambassadors are all granted the same status as diplomats representing sovereign nations...

What a load of petty Little Englanders our Government is made up of.

[Paul Calf]

I know people who vote Tory and they are still convinced that the NHS is safe with the Tories. One of them would be dead without the support of the NHS and another would be in millions of pounds of medical debt.

What can you do about this shit?

[frajer]

I know people who vote Tory and they are still convinced that the NHS is safe with the Tories. One of them would be dead without the support of the NHS and another would be in millions of pounds of medical debt.

What can you do about this shit?

I've had this discussion with a few people who feel the same way, and there is absolutely no logic to their reasoning. It got so heated and was ultimately pointless so I don't bother talking to people about it anymore.

Acquaintance: "Do you seriously think they'd turn people away and let them die if they couldn't afford treatment?"
Frajer: "Yeah."
Acquaintance: "So you're saying the govt will murder poor people rather than help them?! You just sound stupid."
Frajer: *shoots self in head*

And of course it'll be the same showers of shit who claim in hindsight they "had no idea" what they were voting for.

[sirhenry]

All these businesses vs. customs/HMRC stories seem to be exactly the same narrative: the cost of the paperwork is too high for us to make a profit selling the amount that we sell. It does look suspiciously as if the only companies that can afford to absorb the costs are the huge ones where each consignment is tens or hundreds of tons.

Good to see the Conservatives backing[nb]out of providing any support for[/nb] their one hope for our future economy, the SMEs that will grow into share-selling, speculatable multinationals.

[Paul Calf]

They really, truly don't give a fuck about the economy do they?

Corbyn really was their last chance to save consumer capitalism. Ironically.

[bgmnts]

The handling of covid alone also indicates that the tories give very few amount of shits about SMEs. That's what I will never understand about Tories, they do absolutely nothing but line pockets of people who do not need money.

[Hundhoon]

i was really against Brexit but i think it has the potential to be the best thing the UK ever did.

[An tSaoi]

Just wondered if the strategy for now was to ignore rather than propagandize things (might have made that verb up).

Any bad things are actually because of COVID, or the EU. Or the media. Or Remainers. Or even the Government. Anything but Brexit itself.

Brexiteers don't mind everything being awful as long as they can blame someone else for it. Think about all those things that could have been changed or scrapped or fixed while still in the EU, but weren't. There's no appetite for actually improving conditions for anyone. As long as it doesn't involve any self-reflection, and as long as the blame is placed squarely with outside forces, they'll put up with it.

[dissolute ocelot]

God, no. Once the UK fishing industry has collapsed, we'll just sell access to our waters to the highest bidder.

Nobody in Britain wants to eat British fish, like mackerel and all the weird brown oily shit (except farmed salmon which obviously doesn't require much effort to catch). You don't get many tuna in the North Sea, and most prawns and even cod are imported. It's a basic thing that if you're producing something that you need to export (oily fish and shellfish), then you need access to export markets. Sheep farmers will have the same trouble (most sheep meat is exported, alive or dead), so I'm hoping we'll see both our hills and our oceans turned into nature reserves. In practice, they'll probably turn them into huge breeders for biofuel or concrete them over or something.

[dissolute ocelot]

Regarding what happens when you order things from the EU/EEA[nb]The EEA includes Norway, Iceland, etc, and have basically the same trading rules[/nb] to Britain, the Guardian had an article about people paying £120 fees on a £230 jumpsuit from Norway. From my research, if you buy through an online marketplace like Amazon Marketplace or eBay from a firm in the EU/EEA, then the marketplace handles the VAT registration and all the other shit and it's easy (I bought from France via eBay), but if you buy direct the firm must pay to register with the UK VAT authorities and a bunch of other bullshit red tape, or you the customer must pay huge fees. So in summary, another victory for Amazon in their war against small business.

[paruses]

Any bad things are actually because of COVID, or the EU. Or the media. Or Remainers. Or even the Government. Anything but Brexit itself.

Brexiteers don't mind everything being awful as long as they can blame someone else for it. Think about all those things that could have been changed or scrapped or fixed while still in the EU, but weren't. There's no appetite for actually improving conditions for anyone. As long as it doesn't involve any self-reflection, and as long as the blame is placed squarely with outside forces, they'll put up with it.

Oh of course - that strategy was put in place even before anything happened. Piss is boiling just thinking about hearing various wankers adopt that over the last four years.

I was just thinking that while I've had notifications of how great Brexit will be articles over the last couple of years, I've not seen anything positive pop up. Guess those outlets are keeping their powder dry and letting Covid do the work for now. Or maybe they will just do what The Sun did when it went all in on backing Bubble on Big Brother; when he was voted  out a week later they just pretended he was nothing to do with them.

[Buelligan]

Regarding what happens when you order things from the EU/EEA[nb]The EEA includes Norway, Iceland, etc, and have basically the same trading rules[/nb] to Britain, the Guardian had an article about people paying £120 fees on a £230 jumpsuit from Norway. From my research, if you buy through an online marketplace like Amazon Marketplace or eBay from a firm in the EU/EEA, then the marketplace handles the VAT registration and all the other shit and it's easy (I bought from France via eBay), but if you buy direct the firm must pay to register with the UK VAT authorities and a bunch of other bullshit red tape, or you the customer must pay huge fees. So in summary, another victory for Amazon in their war against small business.

Just had a quick look, Ebay are applying substantial import charges on stuff like jumpers from the UK if they're sent to France.  £50 jumper will cost an extra £15 in customs charges, for example.

[dissolute ocelot]

Just had a quick look, Ebay are applying substantial import charges on stuff like jumpers from the UK if they're sent to France.  £50 jumper will cost an extra £15 in customs charges, for example.

Tariff-free trade, eh? According to the Guardian, their local version of VAT must be paid on goods sent to the EU, but customers in the EU must also complete a customs form for each thing they buy from the UK, and agents are charging big fees to cover the costs of someone filling out the form for you.

Still, someone I know is for their work attempting to ship products from Germany to Ireland via a distribution centre in Scotland and a port in Northern Ireland. Trivial pre-Brexit, now apparently impossible.

I'm awaiting the first Brexiteer to be fined or sent to jail for filling out their forms wrong.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Shit's getting real now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55711531

Processed goods like jelly or gravy could be unavailable in NI at the end of the protocol grace period, according to Stormont's agriculture minister.

I'm amazed that the magic of capitalism hasn't solved this problem. Come on Northern Ireland, build a fucking jelly factory.

[NoSleep]

Regarding what happens when you order things from the EU/EEA[nb]The EEA includes Norway, Iceland, etc, and have basically the same trading rules[/nb] to Britain, the Guardian had an article about people paying £120 fees on a £230 jumpsuit from Norway. From my research, if you buy through an online marketplace like Amazon Marketplace or eBay from a firm in the EU/EEA, then the marketplace handles the VAT registration and all the other shit and it's easy (I bought from France via eBay), but if you buy direct the firm must pay to register with the UK VAT authorities and a bunch of other bullshit red tape, or you the customer must pay huge fees. So in summary, another victory for Amazon in their war against small business.

Tried to buy a guitar pedal via Amazon yesterday (only place I could find that had stock) and was told my address (which has never been a problem before) could not be delivered to, no explanation. This must be something to do with the goods coming from the EU. A friend of mine suggested that the answer is to sign up to Amazon.fr and it'll be delivered to the UK no problem.

[Cuellar]

Nissan to commit to Sunderland with battery switch

So that's a nice thing for Nissan to commit to isn't it Andy?

Nissan intend to start making batteries in the UK rather than importing from Asia so they can export tarriff free to the EU

Under the terms of the FTA agreed late last year between the UK and EU, local content on EU-bound cars that qualify for free circulation does not include parts - such as battery cells - assembled in Britain but sourced from outside the UK and EU, for example from China or Japan. That pointed to a potential problem for UK-made EVs that source battery cells from Asia.

So that's good I suppose. Although there was nothing stopping them doing this before Brexit, of course. I imagine making the batteries here will be more expensive, but as Nissan say they're huge so it's peanuts to them.

[Buelligan]

What will happen to the price of batteries built in post-Brexit UK if the UK throw out workers' protection laws?  Will it give Nissan the ability to export cheap batteries to the EU, tariff free?

[Mr_Simnock]

God, no. Once the UK fishing industry has collapsed, we'll just sell access to our waters to the highest bidder.

Worldwide fishing has no future, it will collapse for all countries within the next 20 years then god knows what will happen.

What will happen to the price of batteries built in post-Brexit UK if the UK throw out workers' protection laws?  Will it give Nissan the ability to export cheap batteries to the EU, tariff free?

The only thing that will reduce the price of batteries is the drop in cost of the lithium and cobalt used and also increase in overall production around the world. There are some alternative battery technologies in development that could significantly slash raw material costs but who knows if they make it beyond the lab.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I'm awaiting the first Brexiteer to be fined or sent to jail for filling out their forms wrong

Matter of time, in fact it probably has already happened...

[monkfromhavana]

Come on Northern Ireland, build a fucking jelly factory.

I'm no builder, but wouldn't concrete be a better option?

[Buelligan]

The only thing that will reduce the price of batteries is the drop in cost of the lithium and cobalt used and also increase in overall production around the world. There are some alternative battery technologies in development that could significantly slash raw material costs but who knows if they make it beyond the lab.

So batteries produced with identical materials in a country that treats its workers properly and pays them correctly[nb]and, maybe, also takes care not to damage the environment too much[/nb] will cost exactly the same if they're produced in a country where they do not?

Won't it be great if Brexit makes it possible, not just possible, desirable, that workers' rights in Britain are destroyed and, because the products of those workers may be exported to the EU tariff-free, that under-cuts workers treated properly in Europe, losing them their jobs?

[lipsink]

I'm awaiting the first Brexiteer to be fined or sent to jail for filling out their forms wrong.

"I didn't realise what we were voting for!"
Will you continue to vote Tory?
"Oh, definitely!"

[Paul Calf]

I'm awaiting the first Brexiteer to be fined or sent to jail for filling out their forms wrong.

Nah, that's not how bureaucracy works.

"Sorry sir, but you seem to have omitted to complete section 4 of for UVL-95-C. You'll need to get an erratum form from window 9 of Portcullis Mews office and attach it with the information".

"Can't I just complete it now?"

"No sir, because the form is stamped and notarised"

"Oh, Can I just start the form again?"

"Of course sir-"

"-great-"

"You'll need to get a resubmission chit from Control, submit it in triplicate to Lengths and have it on the desk of the Area Administrator by Monday morning."

/kills self

[Mr_Simnock]

So batteries produced with identical materials in a country that treats its workers properly and pays them correctly[nb]and, maybe, also takes care not to damage the environment too much[/nb] will cost exactly the same if they're produced in a country where they do not?

Won't it be great if Brexit makes it possible, not just possible, desirable, that workers' rights in Britain are destroyed and, because the products of those workers may be exported to the EU tariff-free, that under-cuts workers treated properly in Europe, losing them their jobs?

No for your first point. The countries\companies that just pay their workers less will simply generate more profit per battery, anyway the pay for a production worker in creating the batteries is so small as to not make much noticable difference anyway if it's comparably low or high. The thing's I mentioned in my first email will lower the cost as well as competition between different battery producers.

The below quote is from https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1126308_electric-car-battery-prices-dropped-13-in-2019-will-reach-100-kwh-in-2023

From 2010 to 2019, lithium-ion battery prices (when looking at the battery pack as a whole) have fallen from $1,100 per kilowatt-hour to $156/kwh—an 87% cut

Your second point isn't worth pauseing to think about for even a femtosecond.

[bgmnts]

Can't we just go back to tin mining so we can make sturdy bronze? Those were the good old days when Britain had some industry.

Fuck the EU, we have tin.

[Paul Calf]

Your second point isn't worth pauseing to think about for even a femtosecond.

Not if you've been an enthusiastic cheerleader of a right-wing coup that's now coming apart before your eyes, no.

[Darles Chickens]

Won't it be great if Brexit makes it possible, not just possible, desirable, that workers' rights in Britain are destroyed and, because the products of those workers may be exported to the EU tariff-free, that under-cuts workers treated properly in Europe, losing them their jobs?

I think the level playing field clauses of the trade agreement would kick in. If the UK moves too far from EU rules in a way which is deemed unfair to EU businesses by an independent arbitrator, its access to the European market could be limited. Which, in practice, probably means imposing tariffs.