Post-Brexit fallout - we can't have our cake or eat it

[bgmnts]

Def want that Brummie cunt from CarWow to review that thing.

[Dex Sawash]

https://uk.motor1.com/news/533700/polestar-precept-prototype-production-uk/

I like to split polestar in 3 syllables like molester.

[buzby]

Interesting to see both Nisan and Ford invest then in the UK for EV cars. https://insideevs.com/news/541516/nissan-leaf-replaced-by-crossover/ & https://insideevs.com/news/541489/uk-ford-halewood-drive-units/

It's a shame Ford no longer manufacture any vehicles in the UK. Their only manufacturing sites are the Halewood Transmission Plant (710 employees) and the Dagenham Engine Plant (2000 employees) The Bridgend Engine Plant closed in September 2020, having been ruled out for conversion to battery manufacture because it was going to be outside the EU, where all their assembly plants were.

The Transmission Plant at Halewood is a tiny part of the site, the rest of which was turned over to Jaguar Landrover (when they were still under Ford ownership) after the Escort ceased production. The Transmission Plant makes the gearboxes for about a third of Ford's European-manufactured vehicles (as well as some for Volvo and JLR) so transitioning to produce EV power modules isn;t exactly a surprise, as they aren't going to be able to set up a new gearbox plant to supply them within the EU in the short term. It has a 'twin' plant at Ford's Cologne site, and under the previous Ford-Getrag JV there was a plant in France as well, which was handed over to Magna (Getrag's parent) at the end of the JV (which came about because Halewood would be Magna's only non-EU plant).

However, The more worrying part of that article is that Ford's German factories are going to be building vehicles that won't be using them, and using VW's MEB platform instead. The article quotes that Halewood will eventually produce 250k EV modules a year, but the new MEB-based model being built in Cologne is expected to produce 600k units a year. Before the move to electification, a sizable chunk of those 600k units would have been Focii, Fiestas etc. that used gearboxes made in Halewood.

https://uk.motor1.com/news/533700/polestar-precept-prototype-production-uk/

The Polestar (Volvo's former perfomance division, which has been spun off by Geely to concentrate on premium-market EVs) facility in the UK is purely for R&D (it's actually in part of LTI's taxi factory in Ansty, as Geely also own LTI, and the EV experience there came from the development of the TX electric taxi). All production will take place at Geely's factories in Sweden, China and the US, where their primary markets are.

As the R&D centre doesn't have to deal with manufacturing-scale supply chain issues, Brexit will hardly have been a factor in Geely's plans for it. It should also be noted that Volvo have two other EV R&D centres in Gothenburg and Shanghai, concerned with developing their mass-market EV platforms.

[Mr_Simnock]

It's a shame Ford no longer manufacture any vehicles in the UK. Their only manufacturing sites are the Halewood Transmission Plant (710 employees) and the Dagenham Engine Plant (2000 employees) The Bridgend Engine Plant closed in September 2020, having been ruled out for conversion to battery manufacture because it was going to be outside the EU, where all their assembly plants were.

The Transmission Plant at Halewood is a tiny part of the site, the rest of which was turned over to Jaguar Landrover (when they were still under Ford ownership) after the Escort ceased production. The Transmission Plant makes the gearboxes for about a third of Ford's European-manufactured vehicles (as well as some for Volvo and JLR) so transitioning to produce EV power modules isn;t exactly a surprise, as they aren't going to be able to set up a new gearbox plant to supply them within the EU in the short term. It has a 'twin' plant at Ford's Cologne site, and under the previous Ford-Getrag JV there was a plant in France as well, which was handed over to Magna (Getrag's parent) at the end of the JV (which came about because Halewood would be Magna's only non-EU plant).

However, The more worrying part of that article is that Ford's German factories are going to be building vehicles that won't be using them, and using VW's MEB platform instead. The article quotes that Halewood will eventually produce 250k EV modules a year, but the new MEB-based model being built in Cologne is expected to produce 600k units a year. Before the move to electification, a sizable chunk of those 600k units would have been Focii, Fiestas etc. that used gearboxes made in Halewood.

The Polestar (Volvo's former perfomance division, which has been spun off by Geely to concentrate on premium-market EVs) facility in the UK is purely for R&D (it's actually in part of LTI's taxi factory in Ansty, as Geely also own LTI, and the EV experience there came from the development of the TX electric taxi). All production will take place at Geely's factories in Sweden, China and the US, where their primary markets are.

As the R&D centre doesn't have to deal with manufacturing-scale supply chain issues, Brexit will hardly have been a factor in Geely's plans for it. It should also be noted that Volvo have two other EV R&D centres in Gothenburg and Shanghai, concerned with developing their mass-market EV platforms.

When did Ford production begin to decrease in the UK, was it after the vote or well before it was even thought of? As for the second part, I think also larger and larger factories, apeing the Tesla model, will begin to me more common with more manufacturers and those locations are better suited to them at the moment.

[Cuellar]

No, Ford stopped producing in the UK in 2013 and in e.g. Poland in 2016. They won't be producing anything in the UK in future though. In e.g. Poland they will, though, starting at the end of this year. And in Romania, and in Spain, and Germany obviously.

[Buelligan]

But you know, with this Brexit thing, is it a huge victory to say, hey we're keeping some of the jobs!? 

I'd like to hear more about how everything's (or even, most things,) rosy now.  Where are the stories about all you people rolling in freedom clover and having a tip-top time?

[Mr_Simnock]

Jobs for all

[buzby]

When did Ford production begin to decrease in the UK, was it after the vote or well before it was even thought of?

The rundown of Ford's UK operations began in the 1990s, and despite not being directly Brexit-related it was related to the UK being an outpost of Europe in general. Ford Europe was set up after WW2 to manage Ford's UK and mainland European operations. which basically amounted to Ford UK, based in Dagenham, and Ford Germany, based in Cologne. Being in the anglophone world, the European HQ was established in the UK, in the same site as Ford UK's offices which moved from Dagenham to a new office complex at Warley  From then on up until the late 90s there was a power struggle between the two siblings over who had the biggest say in Ford Europe. For a variety of political, economic and industrial relations factors eventually Ford Germany began to take control.

The first casualty was Halewood Body & Assembly, which lost out to Saarlouis in Germany and Valencia in Spain as an assembly plant for the Focus in 1997. After the Escort Van production line finally closed, it was handed over to JLR to build the Jaguar X Type and Freelander.

In 1999, Ford's European HQ was moved from Warley in Essex to Cologne, and it's this point where Ford UK's influence in the European operation basically evaporated and left it's remaining UK sites vunerable to closure.

The next casualty was the massive factory at Dagenham, which ceased vehicle assembly in 2002 (it's last model was the Fiesta, which it was building alongside Valencia) and the Body Pressing Plant there closed in 2013, leaving only the Engine Plant (which only makes diesel engines, so it's on borrowed time),

The last UK assembly plant, the Transit factory in Southampton, was graudally closed from 2009 to 2013 with production moving to Ford's JV with Koç Holdings in Turkey.

Finally, the office complex at Warley in Essex that had been the home of Ford Europe and Ford UK closed in 2018, with the remaining Ford UK staff moving to offices at the Dagenham Engine Plant and Dunton R&D Centre.

Ford's remaining facilties in the UK are
Dunton R&D Centre and  Ford UK offices
Dagenham Diesel Engine Plant
Halewood Transmission Plant (after Magna ceased the JV in March this year)

For comparison, Ford's facilites in mainland Europe are:
Germany
Cologne (HQ, Design, Body & Assembly - Fiesta, Engine Plant, Transmission Plant)
Sasrlouis (Body & Assembly - Focus & C-Max)
Aachen (R&D)
Belgium
Lommel (Test Centre)
Spain
Valencia (Body & Assembly - Kuga, Galaxy, Mondeo, S-Max, Transit)
Romania
Craiova (Body & Assembly - Puma, EcoSport, B-Max)
Turkey
Kocaeli (Body & Assembly - Transit, Transit Connect

With the migration of Ford Europe's centre of gravity to Germany, any decisions made in the run up or aftermath of the Brexit vote have to be viewed with that in mind. The closure of Bridgend was directly related to that, and it seems to have been a  factor in the decision to partner with VW to use their EV platform in spite of plans to start producting their own EV components in Halewood  (Ford Germany & VW also having previously had a successful JV building the Ford Galaxy/VW Sharan/SEAT Alhambra).

[Mr_Simnock]

Thanks for that informative answer. UK manufacturing has been in long term decline even as part of the EU, in or out I don't think it really makes a difference to it but now we do have some companies using it an excuse to keep the decline going. If only we had a decent opposition party with a good strategy for manufacturing to get going again, could be a vote winner, but we have keith.

[Buelligan]

Jobs for all

Dunno.  Is it not the case there are a lot of vacancies that people from the EU used to do but now they're gone, the Brits either don't have the skills or aren't prepared to suffer the conditions and pay on offer?  Meanwhile, you have empty shelves and the army delivering fuel.

Hardly sunny uplands, is it?

[Mr_Simnock]

Yes the vacancies are almost certainly from people leaving to go back to the EU. There has been a skill shortage for many years, it was easily 'fixed' by having lots of exploitable people from the EU to fill the gaps and many businesses just became lazy and relied on it. I couldn't give a damn if these companies go to the wall, if you relied on paying people at or below minimum wage just when it suited you to make profit then sod you and the horse you rode in on. As for empty shelves, have hardly seen any at all and the army was used in a very limited capacity for a very short time, utterly overblown the lot of it.

[chrispmartha]

https://uk.motor1.com/news/533700/polestar-precept-prototype-production-uk/

I have a Polestar 2, I want one of these precept things when they come out.

Yay Brexit or something.

[Cuellar]

I look forward to the day our lazy hospital goes to the wall.

[Paul Calf]

As for empty shelves, have hardly seen any at all and the army was used in a very limited capacity for a very short time, utterly overblown the lot of it.

I suppose you have to count "Not many empty shelves and only being dependent on the army for a short while" as a benefit of Brexit when faced with its reality.

[Paul Calf]

I wonder how fucked our supply chain would have been if we'd not left a trading bloc consisting of all our nearest and most important trading partners on the whim of some billionaires who wanted to keep their tax havens?

I know we're supposed to pretend that Brexiters aren't thick, deluded ignoramuses but you do have to meet us halfway.

[paruses]

Headline from The Telegraph and link but I can't see the article. Anyone willing or able to give the key reasoning is welcome

"If Remainers blame Brexit for food shortages, they'll end up regretting it"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2021/10/26/remainers-blame-brexit-food-shortages-end-regretting/

[olliebean]

Headline from The Telegraph and link but I can't see the article. Anyone willing or able to give the key reasoning is welcome

"If Remainers blame Brexit for food shortages, they'll end up regretting it"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2021/10/26/remainers-blame-brexit-food-shortages-end-regretting/

It's a joke article. The reasoning is basically, if we blame Brexit for shortages of vegetables, our children, who don't like vegetables, will grow up being grateful to Brexit for not having to eat them.

[paruses]

Oh. Thanks. Now doubly annoyed as that was right faff to put together on my phone.

[mothman]

We are a ridiculous country.

[frajer]

Non-EU salt and pepper just makes it sound terrifyingly unregulated, like it'll be ground-up glass and the stuff they put in baby's rattles and will give you instant cancer.

[olliebean]

Non-EU salt and pepper just makes it sound terrifyingly unregulated, like it'll be ground-up glass and the stuff they put in baby's rattles and will give you instant cancer.

Ay, but it'll be British ground-up glass and it'll give you British cancer.

[Fambo Number Mive]

The whole design of that Morrison's packet, looking like something from an independent store so people can feel less bad about going to the supermarket, is laughable. The promise that, wherever the salt a d pepper are from, it is not within the EU, is the icing.on the cake.

[HamishMacbeth]

I was convinced this had to be a photoshop, but was able to find my own on the Morrisons website pretty quick.



EDIT: Given that this almost certainly means it's not British salt, garlic, or butter either, how does this even help? I can sort of understand helping out by buying British but who gives a shit which country to import from?

[canadagoose]

I noticed that chicken packet on Twitter earlier and wasn't sure what they were on about, but I hadn't noticed the "non-EU salt and pepper". I think I'm so used to mentally blocking out all the Union Jackery on food packets that I assume it'll all be dogshit.

[Twit 2]

ARE FISHING GROUNDS

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/01/i-wish-id-voted-to-stay-in-brixham-fishers-on-the-cost-of-brexit

ARE FISHING GROUNDS

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

ARE FISH IN GROUNDS

[Buelligan]

Turns out we have some extra subs too.   So there's that.

[buzby]

ARE FISHING GROUNDS

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/01/i-wish-id-voted-to-stay-in-brixham-fishers-on-the-cost-of-brexit

ARE FISHING GROUNDS

From the artice:

They want to bring their wines and cheeses and delicacies into the UK? Let's make it tougher for them, let's put tariffs on it. Let's stop Citroen and Renault bringing cars in

Does he not realise that Renault (who own Nissan) and Citroen (whose parent Stellantis own Vauxhall) own three of the few remaining car factories in the UK?

[Paul Calf]

They want to bring their wines and cheeses and delicacies into the UK? Let's make it tougher for them, let's put tariffs on it.

Says a man who would in no way benefit from the rolling back of the stodge curtain that engulfed Britain in bland, unhealthy, unappealing food after WWII.

[robhug]

From the artice:Does he not realise that Renault (who own Nissan) and Citroen (whose parent Stellantis own Vauxhall) own three of the few remaining car factories in the UK?

Ian Perkes hasnt thought it through.

Maybe he thinks we can make them here, export them back to the frogs, then stick a massive tariff on them when they try and flog their dogshit made crappy French cars to us? That'll show these disgusting cheese eating surrender monkeys that we mean business about scallop quota's.