Football Thread 2021: well done, he's 13

[Kankurette]

I think this is pretty unfair. For one, thing Man U fans do have a track record of protesting their present ownership, one that stretches back to a time when they were actual regular title winners. For another, you've conflated these specific protestors with the anti-BLM lot based on precisely fuck all.

I'm with the pig, the response on here is quite surprising and is notably different from the how posters on this forum respond to non-football protests. An awful lot of "how dare they ruin my entertainment" and an awful lot of kneejerk cynicism that I suspect is coloured by fan tribalism more than anything. "You only protest when you're losing" is just a twist on "you only sing when you're winning".

I'm just not really sure how you can shake your head about the state of modern football one second and then moan when fans actually do something because you were looking forward to the match or because oh, Man U fans are dicks anyway.

Obviously I'm broadly anti-glassing people.

Maybe some of them did support BLM. Who knows. I just feel incredibly cynical about it all. I don't care about the match as I hate both teams. But people getting beaten up over football is stupid. So is bricking coaches. You're supposed to be fans of the sane team, why fight?

It was the glassing that got me. And people who were just there to pose for the 'gram or start fights. There's also a personal reason why the protest has this effect on me, and it's completely irrational and I don't want to post it here. I'll PM you.

[Kankurette]

I'm all for them protesting, invading the pitch, getting the game called off - that's the sort of disruption that might get the owner's attention.

A handful of pricks smashing things up and glassing people, I'm less for that.

The problem is that everyone will focus on the latter and whatever good the protest could have done will be ignored.

This.

[BlodwynPig]

I'm all for them protesting, invading the pitch, getting the game called off - that's the sort of disruption that might get the owner's attention.

A handful of pricks smashing things up and glassing people, I'm less for that.

The problem is that everyone will focus on the latter and whatever good the protest could have done will be ignored.

Didn't know about the glassing, but let's not get distracted by the usual thugs.


ps. was the verified? False flagging by the media has been heavy recently.

[BlodwynPig]

No, I just think they're a bunch of spoiled brats who can't hack City bring ahead of them. Call me a cynic but they never cared about greed in the 90s when they were winning every season.

There's also the fact a fair few football fans were vocally anti-BLM - remember the backlash - and I'd argue black people being murdered by police is much worse than a football team being mismanaged. You don't get to call BLM thugs when you're attacking a football ground. And the Glazers won't care.

Other teams managed peaceful protests. Relatively peaceful. Actually I'm surprised Wednesday fans haven't done one yet.

Could probably do without the factionalism, to be honest. This is a bigger fight. cf. Labour.

[BlodwynPig]

This.

Fine. We're broadly on the same page. But please focus your cynicism toward the real baddies.

[Bernice]

This.

Well yeah, I broadly agree with that (although I'd say there's a world of difference between smashing things up, especially things owned by billionaires, and violence). But it looks like these protests are what we'd happily call "largely peaceful" when it's a political protest we agree with, and given the cause is righteous I'm not sure why we can't extend the same generosity here. Obviously the glassing is bad, and I'm sure there were people there who were drawn mainly at the prospect of fucking shit up.

There's also a personal reason why the protest has this effect on me, and it's completely irrational and I don't want to post it here. I'll PM you.

I don't think you have to justify yourself by sharing anything you're not comfortable sharing.

ps. was the verified? False flagging by the media has been heavy recently.

That's a good question, especially after the lies the police spread around the Bristol protests. Though I suspect they'd be less keen to false flag this than specifically anti-police protests.

[Spode]

'They're not protesting right' is the clarion call of everyone who ever tried to delegitimise and dampen enthusiasm for a movement.

Souness with his 'what will it achieve. They don't care' was particularly frustrating. So what's the alternative? Just sit back and hope they don't destroy your club? Plus, they've achieved something pretty sizeable by getting one of the most high profile games of the season postponed. Given that most stadiums are about 75% season ticket holders when opened, boycotting the match isn't really an option given they already have your money and you're putting your team at an immediate disadvantage so I'd say they did as best they could and the impact has been massive.

Predictably, the focus has immediately shifted to the 'violence' which is pretty tame given the amount of people involved and would be completely ignored if the police had piled into the crowd and broke a few arms dispersing the fans. Hardly surprising though seen as though match-going fans are generally treated as criminals up and down the country every weekend.

[phes]

Is anyone surprised that all these establishment hacks are happy to keep their trap shut about anything that might crimp the pipe of the wage flow but when Legend Gaz turns up and bricks someone they can't wait to get their moral credentials out for the lads. cowards

[jobotic]

Yeah pretty good protest I would have thought. How to get rid of the Glazers? Make them think it's more trouble than its worth. Same reason strikes to stop forced academization of schools can work. It might not but what's better?

I was happy to mock people paying them hundreds of pounds a year then thinking they were sticking it to them by wearing a green and yellow scarf so happy to take my hat off to them for this.

[BlodwynPig]

Is anyone surprised that all these establishment hacks are happy to keep their trap shut about anything that might crimp the pipe of the wage flow but when Legend Gaz turns up and bricks someone they can't wait to get their moral credentials out for the lads. cowards

Exactly this. Tougher laws to stop protest on or adjacent to capitalist assets incoming...

[SpiderChrist]

Shearer on MOTD last night. "I'm all for protesting but not like this" or words to that effect. Fuck him. I yelled at the telly "SO WHAT DO YOU WANT THEM TO DO?".

Peaceful protests against rich cunt owners don't seem to work. Either a) smash shit up or b) stop buying season tickets and BT/Sky subscriptions. Or both. Hit these arseholes in the wallet - it's the only way they will take notice.

[phes]

useless nimby cunt.

[Kankurette]

Souness with his 'what will it achieve. They don't care' was particularly frustrating. So what's the alternative? Just sit back and hope they don't destroy your club? Plus, they've achieved something pretty sizeable by getting one of the most high profile games of the season postponed. Given that most stadiums are about 75% season ticket holders when opened, boycotting the match isn't really an option given they already have your money and you're putting your team at an immediate disadvantage so I'd say they did as best they could and the impact has been massive.

Predictably, the focus has immediately shifted to the 'violence' which is pretty tame given the amount of people involved and would be completely ignored if the police had piled into the crowd and broke a few arms dispersing the fans. Hardly surprising though seen as though match-going fans are generally treated as criminals up and down the country every weekend.

No, it would have been even worse if police had started whacking fans with truncheons and teargassing them. Plenty of fans are old enough to remember Hillsborough and the bad old days when fans were treated like cattle by the police, much worse than we are now.

Blod, do you want me to PM you? I'd rather not explain in detail why that whole protest yesterday made me react like that, this is not the Everton Made Kankurette Want to Do Bad Things Thread. And don't assume I don't care about the real baddies, please. Everton would have been among them if this had been 20-odd years ago. In fact, we were.

[Spode]

No, it would have been even worse if police had started whacking fans with truncheons and teargassing them. Plenty of fans are old enough to remember Hillsborough and the bad old days when fans were treated like cattle by the police, much worse than we are now.

Blod, do you want me to PM you?

That's not quite what I said though. The reporting now is focused on the fact some police ended up in hospital, switch it round and some isolated protestors were there and it doesn't make the report.

And while clearly, conditions have changed for football fans since the 80s, the treatment of them is still shocking. Constantly hoarded in and out of tightly packed away ends, marched in and out hours before and after kick off times, thrown in the back of vans at will, ejected from stadiums for nothing. It's miserable.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Predictably, the focus has immediately shifted to the 'violence' which is pretty tame given the amount of people involved and would be completely ignored if the police had piled into the crowd and broke a few arms dispersing the fans. Hardly surprising though seen as though match-going fans are generally treated as criminals up and down the country every weekend.

Not entirely surprising though given that it's a sport where fans have to be actually segregated at every single match that's played so that they don't physically harm each other.

[Kankurette]

I thought it was a steward who got his face cut up.

Police attempts at crowd control are one thing that puts me off matches. I have a crowd phobia.

Not entirely surprising though given that it's a sport where fans have to be actually segregated at every single match that's played so that they don't physically harm each other.

Depends on the teams tbh. Man United and, say, West Brom fans are (probably) less likely to fight than Man United and Leeds fans, or Spurs and West Ham fans, or Liverpool and Everton fans (it is NOT a friendly derby these days). One of the biggest cases I remember when I was a legal secretary was a massive fight between two sets of fans, West Ham and another southern team. I think it was Dag & Red. The solicitor assigned to the case was a Hammer himself.

[Spode]

Not entirely surprising though given that it's a sport where fans have to be actually segregated at every single match that's played so that they don't physically harm each other.

Given that unless it's a high profile rivalry, the segregation is often a line of part time stewards and barely nothing happens every weekend, I don't think that's exactly representative of what really happens. Particularly when scores of fans who make their own travel arrangements mix pre  and post match in nearby pubs and stuff as well.

I'm not naive enough to think there's not dickheads spoiling for a fight every weekend in amongst the crowds but policing of football matches and club lead policies have been grim for years.

[BlodwynPig]

No, it would have been even worse if police had started whacking fans with truncheons and teargassing them. Plenty of fans are old enough to remember Hillsborough and the bad old days when fans were treated like cattle by the police, much worse than we are now.

Blod, do you want me to PM you? I'd rather not explain in detail why that whole protest yesterday made me react like that, this is not the Everton Made Kankurette Want to Do Bad Things Thread. And don't assume I don't care about the real baddies, please. Everton would have been among them if this had been 20-odd years ago. In fact, we were.

I'd rather not dredge up bad memories for you. But my point is distinct from your personal experiences, I hope you understand. If it is the crowd phobia then I also have this and try to avoid.

[Kankurette]

Given that unless it's a high profile rivalry, the segregation is often a line of part time stewards and barely nothing happens every weekend, I don't think that's exactly representative of what really happens. Particularly when scores of fans who make their own travel arrangements mix pre  and post match in nearby pubs and stuff as well.

I'm not naive enough to think there's not dickheads spoiling for a fight every weekend in amongst the crowds but policing of football matches and club lead policies have been grim for years.

I was in an Everton pub a few years ago when a load of West Brom fans were drinking there as well and it was pretty peaceful. I think the only time I'd be worried is if we were playing Liverpool or one of the teams with ultras. Liverpool fans have their own pubs anyway, they're more likely to hang out there.

I'd rather not dredge up bad memories for you. But my point is distinct from your personal experiences, I hope you understand.

I get that. I just hate being made to feel like I'm not a good fan for not being 100% on board with the protests, albeit for irrational reasons. I mean, wanting to stab your team's manager to death because the other fans hate him, to the point where you've planned how to do it and where to sit, is pretty irrational. I'm just glad I never felt that way about Marco Silva. It did almost start up again but I managed to suppress it this time. It helps that I'm on better meds.

I actually did tell other Everton fans about what I wanted to do. They didn't react in the way I thought they would.

[The Culture Bunker]

Strangely enough, I've been to numerous Man United games against Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal and Chelsea and the worst retro-violence was a very minor scuffle between two middle aged men. I was broadly supportive of the protest yesterday, but fears I had that any kind of aggression would spill over sadly played out, and there's the narrative set. I vaguely know a few people who were there, and their general mood is one of being amped up, wondering if it'll happen again. My concern would be next time attracts a bigger crowd, meaning the number of dickheads up to cause trouble rises too.

Only time I've been at any game and feared for my safety was (of all things) seeing Carlisle down at Orient in late 1999. I was in the away end, Carlisle won 1-0 and we got chased all the way back the tube station by enraged Londoners telling us to fuck off back up North, which was a bit tricky for me, as I was living down South at the time.

[Kankurette]

The worst I can think of at Everton was during the Johnson protests and it wasn't anything to do with opposition fans, there was just a general bad atmosphere in the ground. People did kick off. I did have Middlesbrough fans shout abuse at me once, but that was it. Wednesday, on the other hand...eesh. Derby fans held up the tram cos they kept kicking off and police had to be called.

[Inspector Norse]

Any violence at Oldham games is usually the fault of Chaddy the Owl.

[BlodwynPig]

My second ever match, Newcastle vs Arsenal, resulted in a dead Arsenal fan from a stabbing in the stands.

[El Unicornio, mang]

I thought it was a steward who got his face cut up.

Police attempts at crowd control are one thing that puts me off matches. I have a crowd phobia.Depends on the teams tbh. Man United and, say, West Brom fans are (probably) less likely to fight than Man United and Leeds fans, or Spurs and West Ham fans, or Liverpool and Everton fans (it is NOT a friendly derby these days). One of the biggest cases I remember when I was a legal secretary was a massive fight between two sets of fans, West Ham and another southern team. I think it was Dag & Red. The solicitor assigned to the case was a Hammer himself.

But still, just the fact that the threat is there and that it's understood that fans can't mix due to safety concerns. At other sports it's not an issue, even with fierce rivalries.

The last Newcastle match I went to, my West Ham fan friend from America was visiting and couldn't do any kind of celebrating when they scored. He might not have been physically harmed but it was understood that it's not the done thing. Although, at that particular game, as we were walking into the stadium there was this one proper cockney walk geezer strutting through a sea of Newcastle fans with his buddies behind him, arms in the air and chanting some Hammers song. He just got a lot of verbal and shaking of heads, but also there were police all around anyway.

[monkfromhavana]

It's one thing wanting the Glazers out, but who do they want to replace this with? I suspect the Glazers will want rather a large sum to sell the club, which will immediately price any fans groups out. Or do they want the Glazers out, but want some dodgy middle eastern oil & torture merchant to buy the club, or worse than that, Mike Ashley in?

I think these clubs are fucked in the long-term. No more money can be wrung out of TV or sponsorship or tours. The only way they can make money (or at least not lose as much) is by achieving success, henceforth the European Super League. Now that avenue is closed for them, I suspect that there will either be a splurge of cash to make sure they're successful, or a slow downsizing operation.

[BlodwynPig]

It's one thing wanting the Glazers out, but who do they want to replace this with? I suspect the Glazers will want rather a large sum to sell the club, which will immediately price any fans groups out. Or do they want the Glazers out, but want some dodgy middle eastern oil & torture merchant to buy the club, or worse than that, Mike Ashley in?


I think these clubs are fucked in the long-term. No more money can be wrung out of TV or sponsorship or tours. The only way they can make money (or at least not lose as much) is by achieving success, henceforth the European Super League. Now that avenue is closed for them, I suspect that there will either be a splurge of cash to make sure they're successful, or a slow downsizing operation.

FC United of Manchester Salford FC - Champions League Winners 2029-2035

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

It's one thing wanting the Glazers out, but who do they want to replace this with?

Plumbers?

[Fr.Bigley]

Plumbers?

All tradesmen are equally as bad.

[Wonderful Butternut]

FC United of Manchester Salford FC - Champions League Winners 2029-2035

Salford FC who them top football blokes in the "Class of '92" sold half of to Singaporean billionaire Peter Lim and have a massive wage bill for their current division?

Nev doesn't mention that too often.

[Kankurette]

Would Neville and friends consider taking over between them? Has anyone asked him?