Topic: Danny Boyle to direct new Sox Pickles show

[markburgle]

Based on Steve Jones' memoir, new mini-series about the Sex Pistols on FX.

https://ew.com/tv/danny-boyle-sex-pistols-fx-series-maisie-williams-toby-wallace/

Reasons to be optimistic:
An actual series about a band instead of the usual movie treatment...could be good. Could help them avoid the usual pitfalls of oversimplification and pitching it to normies rather than fans.

FX have done some good stuff

Frank Cottrell-Boyce has written some decent stuff

Reasons to be pessimistic:
They always try too hard, these things. Even in a show about a band that behaved quite badly, they'll probably still swear slightly too often and cartoon everyone up - his pitch in the above article certainly suggests so

The actors will probably look too well-fed and pampered

That Beatles movie he done

The source material exemplifies the lightweight, ghostwritten, muso-bio cash-in genre. Hardly a great start

Craig Pearce's previous writing credits include Moulin Rouge and Strictly Ballroom

[Brundle-Fly]

But we know their story inside out: The Great Rock And Roll Swindle, Sid & Nancy, The Filth & The Fury and countless documentaries.

[kngen]

The source material exemplifies the lightweight, ghostwritten, muso-bio cash-in genre. Hardly a great start

I haven't read it yet, but I thought it was supposed to be a bit more weighty than yer usual, dealing with the sexual abuse he suffered etc.

I do love a good rock autobiog, and was considering buying it, so please dissuade me if it's as flimsy as you say.

[markburgle]

But we know their story inside out: The Great Rock And Roll Swindle, Sid & Nancy, The Filth & The Fury and countless documentaries.

Yeah but seeing it wrought skilfully and immersively like you're really there would still be great to see

I haven't read it yet, but I thought it was supposed to be a bit more weighty than yer usual, dealing with the sexual abuse he suffered etc.

I do love a good rock autobiog, and was considering buying it, so please dissuade me if it's as flimsy as you say.

I wouldn't put too much stock by my dismissal tbf, I can't remember how much of my boredom was just a result of, as Brundle says, already knowing the story inside out. I'd already read both Rotten's books, Matlock's, England's Dreaming, 90 Days at EMI, and seen all the docos and read all the articles.

There is the unavoidable issue that plagues most of these books though - that he's a non-writer, and even with help is not equipped to deliver his own story with any of the depth it deserves. So even the heavy stuff is covered in what seems a perfunctory way.

It's probably fine if you're less familiar with the story though.

[markburgle]

.

[Rizla]

If we get to see a depiction of the day Jonesy put away 9 plates of pie’n’mash then I’m in.

[Brundle-Fly]

There was a Lydon biopic mooted at one point, wasn't there? I remember Johnny suggesting Justin Timberlake for the part. That seemed ludicrous at the time but he's proved he's a good actor and with the right accent training might have pulled it off, but too old now.

[kngen]

It's probably fine if you're less familiar with the story though.

Yeah, I've read England's Dreaming and Lydon's first (and seen all the docs), so I might give it a miss (or just watch the TV series). I do quite like Jonesy though; he seems to be a bit of a lefty in his old age, which I never saw coming, and is charmingly at odds with Lydon's recent attention-grabbing antics.

There is the unavoidable issue that plagues most of these books though - that he's a non-writer, and even with help is not equipped to deliver his own story with any of the depth it deserves. So even the heavy stuff is covered in what seems a perfunctory way.

Yeah, that is an issue I encountered most recently with Cheetah Chrome's book - he tackles his addictions, childhood poverty etc reasonably well, but I can't help but feel that, in better hands, his 'hilarious' tour stories might have engendered a slightly more positive reaction in me than 'Wow, what a bunch of cunts', making me like one of my favourite bands a bit less than I did before opening the book.

[markburgle]

Yeah, I've read England's Dreaming and Lydon's first (and seen all the docs), so I might give it a miss (or just watch the TV series). I do quite like Jonesy though; he seems to be a bit of a lefty in his old age, which I never saw coming, and is charmingly at odds with Lydon's recent attention-grabbing antics.

Yeah, that is an issue I encountered most recently with Cheetah Chrome's book - he tackles his addictions, childhood poverty etc reasonably well, but I can't help but feel that, in better hands, his 'hilarious' tour stories might have engendered a slightly more positive reaction in me than 'Wow, what a bunch of cunts', making me like one of my favourite bands a bit less than I did before opening the book.

Hooky's was another. There's just the sense that there compelling stories to be told, but he's not got the initiative to give you them.

I remember when I read Matlock's book, one thing I was interested in was when did he first hear Never Mind the Bollocks? He'd been fired by then, they made it without him - an album he had a massive part in writing. When did he first listen to it? Straight away? Did he put it off for years? Did he think they nailed it or did he think it could've been done better? What did he think of the cover? The title? There loads to explore just on that one point but his book doesn't even mention it. Just has some smug asides about how much the first Rich Kids single sold.

Agree about Jonesy, the only bit I actually remember from the book was a bit about Lydon kicking off for hours on a flight during a reunion tour because they wouldn't let him smoke. The guy sounds like a complete nightmare

[Dusty Substance]

"And then the whole punk thing happened"

[Twonty Gostelow]

Being Wally Nightingale.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Yeah but seeing it wrought skilfully and immersively like you're really there would still be great to see

The Filth & The Fury already did that, it's one of the greatest rockumentaries ever made. A masterpiece.

I'll watch this, obviously.

[markburgle]

There was a Lydon biopic mooted at one point, wasn't there? I remember Johnny suggesting Justin Timberlake for the part. That seemed ludicrous at the time but he's proved he's a good actor and with the right accent training might have pulled it off, but too old now.

This is something I missed from the "optimism" column - Lydon is so insufferably egotistical that any decent telling of the Pistols story needs to be told from the point of view of one of the other members for the sake of balance, and of not having somebody that you want to slap centre-frame all the time. Jonesy is the best choice in this regard.

I did used to really love Lydon, and there are loveable / admirable aspects to him, but these days I can't hack the pomposity and hypocrisy.

[SteveDave]

A friend once came up with a great alternate history where, when they were signing their record contract outside Buckingham Palace, the Sex Pistols foiled an IRA plot to assassinate the Queen. They then became national heroes and went on to make 11 more LPs throughout the 80s and 90s.

Danny Boyle should make that instead.

[phantom_power]

This is something I missed from the "optimism" column - Lydon is so insufferably egotistical that any decent telling of the Pistols story needs to be told from the point of view of one of the other members for the sake of balance, and of not having somebody that you want to slap centre-frame all the time. Jonesy is the best choice in this regard.

I did used to really love Lydon, and there are loveable / admirable aspects to him, but these days I can't hack the pomposity and hypocrisy.

He does seem to believe everything that has been said about him for years and now believes that everything he says is some truth bomb that will blow our tiny little minds

[Brundle-Fly]

They should recreate the infamous moment when Sid Vicious met Freddie Mercury.

The anecdote.

'Writing in her book, Queen Unseen, roadie, Peter Hince recalled, “Sid Vicious came in, worst for the wear, and spoke to Fred:” Did you manage to bring ballet to the masses? “”

Freddie was not a shrinking purple and was known for a sharp sentence.

Hince wrote, “Fred stood up casually, approached him and said,” Aren’t you Fierce Stanley or something? “”

Those two words were enough to incite Vicious, but Freddie took charge.

Hince recalled, “He grabbed him by the collar and threw him out. “

Freddie tells a slightly different story when he spoke of the incident.

The legendary singer said in a TV interview, “I called him Simon Ferocious or something like that, and he didn’t like it at all.

“I said,” What are you going to do about it? “”

Freddie continued: “It was very well marked. I said, “Make sure you scratch yourself in the mirror today, and tomorrow you’re going to get something else. ”

“He hated the fact that I could even speak like that. I think we survived this test. ”

What probably really happened.

Sid arriving at the studio and sees Freddie buying a coffee.

Sid: Alright?

Freddie: Hi.

Sid: Can you tell me the bogs are?

Freddie: Down the corridor, first on the left.

Sid: Cheers mate.

[Twonty Gostelow]

I loved the Simon Ferocious putdown, but as you say, it's probably too good to be true. The prosaic version I heard was that Vicious crawled into Queen's studio on all fours completely off his face and in no condition to deliver ballet putdowns, and Roger Taylor phoned Pistols' management to tell them to get him out of there.

[Twonty Gostelow]

As good a place as any to remind ourselves what Virgin thought would be a good label for Vicious's LP.

[OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead]

You're right. It should be a bass neck and headstock.

[another Mr. Lizard]

I've been working on a Wally Nightingale biography for the past couple of years, hopefully to be published this year, so maybe Danny B will ring the changes a bit by looking at the schooldays/early years of Jonesy, Paul Cook, and Wal - my co-writers and I have picked up a fair amount of early info that I've not seen in other Pistols books or documentaries (as well as covering Wal's later years in as much depth as possible), so if the Boyle production team have spoken to the same people we have, the first episode or two at least might offer something a little different. Jordan wouldn't agree to an interview with us, which we now know may be because she was heavily involved as an advisor on this show (which bodes well - imagine them daring to get anything wrong/inaccurate with her on set...)

[markburgle]

I've been working on a Wally Nightingale biography for the past couple of years, hopefully to be published this year, so maybe Danny B will ring the changes a bit by looking at the schooldays/early years of Jonesy, Paul Cook, and Wal - my co-writers and I have picked up a fair amount of early info that I've not seen in other Pistols books or documentaries (as well as covering Wal's later years in as much depth as possible), so if the Boyle production team have spoken to the same people we have, the first episode or two at least might offer something a little different. Jordan wouldn't agree to an interview with us, which we now know may be because she was heavily involved as an advisor on this show (which bodes well - imagine them daring to get anything wrong/inaccurate with her on set...)

Sounds great, I'll look forward to reading that. Always wondered about him - the fact he was never credited and paid for writing Did You No Wrong was pretty rum (esp. given that they otherwise played quite fair with credits, splitting everything equally. They even gave Sid a share of newer songs despite him having nothing to do with writing them). At the same time he always sounded quite bitter and deluded (e.g. about the fact that he clearly didn't look the part and would've had no place in what the Pistols became).

Wally is in the show, we know that much. Did you get to speak to the band?

[another Mr. Lizard]

We got a lengthy interview with Glen - I didn't meet him personally though. Me and one of the other writers approached Cooky at a Ruts DC/Professionals gig and got a polite but firm "not interested, lads" (which in true Flogging a Dead Horse fashion, we've managed to turn into a couple of pages in the book). Also got lots of good material from early Pistol Steve Hayes.

[kngen]

Seems as good a place as any to share my Paul Cook story. Went to see The Professionals at the 100 Club a couple of years ago, and as me and my mate were waiting on the stairs, Cook walked past us, then stopped to talk to someone in the queue. Now, given that he was playing in the band, the chances of this happening were fairly large. But (and this is completely out of character for me, as I'm pretty good at not letting on that I'm in the presence of someone famous, even if my brain is exploding with excitement) that didn't stop me from blurting out: 'Bwaaaah! Look, it's a Sex Pistol!' to my mate. Cook met my incredulous gaze with a look that can only be described as 'withering exasperation', shook his head and sighed. My friend had much the same reaction. Felt like a total tool, and ended up leaving the gig early (it was pretty shite, to be fair).

Still don't know what came over me. I'm not exactly the world's biggest Pistols fan.