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Wandavision

Started by bgmnts, January 15, 2021, 11:34:07 AM

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The Culture Bunker

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on January 16, 2021, 03:13:39 PM
I've seen speculation that the
Spoiler alert
beekeeper
[close]
could be a sitcomised version of an
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Wasn't the
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watch 'advert' for a brand called 'Strucker'?
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, so perhaps.

Mister Six

Quote from: Magnum Valentino on January 16, 2021, 05:33:38 PM
Could be a depth of field issue or something. There's just something that I'm not articulate enough about photography to describe that doesn't wash.

Yeah, I thought the cameras might be it. Shot on crisp 16:9 HD video then cropped to 4:3, rather than shot on film/video with shitty old lenses with a different depth of field?

Just got done with episode one and I found it a bit of a chore, except for the choking scene where it went all Lynchian (although I think if it had looked more convincingly like an old three-camera setup the shift to one-camera close-ups would have been even more jarring and unsettling).

Could have done with losing 5-10 minutes, maybe, as the jokes themselves weren't actually funny,[nb]Though maybe that's done for verisimilitude.[/nb] and the knowledge that this is some fabricated universe means it feels like I'm just waiting for the actual plot and real characters to kick in. How many times did they need to establish that Wanda and Vision don't actually have a "past" within the TV universe? How much to-and-fro during the dinner party was actually necessary and how much was padding?

I also found my interest in the whole thing fading a bit at the end, when it was suggested that this was some government (SWORD?) project, because while there are still questions to answer, it feels like that's the biggie done and dusted right there. If there were some possibility of it being a parallel dimension/magic spell/dream/psychic projection/coma/afterlife/whatever for a few more episodes I'd be more curious. Maybe there still is, and it's just a fake-out.

Or maybe it's just me being a miserable cunt. I find dream episodes fucking interminable for the most part, because none of it is "real" and so there's little to invest in emotionally. Let's see where this goes, though.

olliebean

A lot of the comedy isn't landing for me the way it did in the shows that are being pastiched, and I'm not sure whether that's deliberate or not. The laugh track certainly seems to have been applied somewhat over-enthusiastically.

SOMK

Thought the first episode was very well done.

Takes it cue heavily from Tom King's 2016 run on Vision, which won the Eisner for 'best limited story arc' -> https://www.marvel.com/comics/series/20897/vision_2015_-_2016

(Blurb for comic may spoil le show)

Spoiler alert
"The Vision wants to be human, and what's more human than family? He goes to the laboratory where he was created, where Ultron molded him into a weapon, where he first rebelled against his given destiny, where he first imagined that he could be more, that he could be good, that he could be a man, a normal, ordinary man. And he builds them. A wife, Virginia. Two teenage twins, Viv and Vin. They look like him. They have his powers. They share his grandest ambition or perhaps obsession: the unrelenting need to be ordinary. Behold The Visions! They're the family next door, and they have the power to kill us all. What could possibly go wrong?"
[close]

AsparagusTrevor

I got a major Rik Mayall vibe from Paul Bettany's 'drunk' acting.

Pseudopath

Quote from: AsparagusTrevor on January 16, 2021, 09:20:25 PM
I got a major Rik Mayall vibe from Paul Bettany's 'drunk' acting.

Reminded me a lot of Sir Digby Chicken Caesar too.

Mister Six

Watched the second episode and laughed properly and heartily for the first time during the magic sequence, but I'm still struggling with the length and all the stuff I mentioned above. The second episode seemed even less concerned with keeping any pretence of a three-camera sitcom, too.

Probably going to stick with it, though, given that the episodes are shortish.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: Mister Six on January 16, 2021, 11:39:34 PM
The second episode seemed even less concerned with keeping any pretence of a three-camera sitcom, too.
I think it's riffing on Bewitched, which was single camera.

Mister Six

#38
Oh, that might make sense. I haven't seen Bewitched since I was a nipper so have vague memories of it being three-camera. Same with I Dream of Jeannie. But thinking about it, that can't be possible, can it? They both had special(ish) effects.

Do wish they'd made a bit more effort to make the footage look like grainy old early 60s film, though. The colour bit at the end did a lovely job of replicating that lovely warm late 60s film palette so it would have been nice to see more of that.

Anyway, how's this panning out? Episode one: 50s, episode two: 60s (B&W), episode three: 60s (colour), four: 70s, five: 80s, six: 90s, seven: 00s, eight: 10s/"real world", nine: finale. Maybe?

evilcommiedictator

I cam see what they're trying to do, but maybe either pick a comedy angle or a spooky angle and run with it, it's a bit dull tbh

Lord Mandrake

Aspect ratio this, film grain that, multi cam the other. Kind of misses the point, it's not supposed to be a shot for shot remake of >insert sitcom< and our perspective is beyond that of static audience. Slight incongruity is the name of the game here.

Magnum Valentino

No mate, I'm sorry but that's bollocks. Why not go the distance when your entire usp is pastiche? If Harry Enfield - Harry Enfield! - could nail it nearly 30 years ago, why can't Disney now?

There's a reason why none of the Marvel output is truly great and people making excuses for them's a big part of it.

Also, as others have said, it's not funny and old American sitcoms are plenty funny. This is much more 'ha ha isn't it different?' than its apparent intention merits.

Dr Rock


Ant Farm Keyboard

Quote from: BritishHobo on January 16, 2021, 12:38:04 AMIt's a huge breath of fresh air when compared to the moody, stodgy Netflix shows they ultimately gave up on. I hope it keeps it up.


El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: Magnum Valentino on January 17, 2021, 10:00:18 AM
No mate, I'm sorry but that's bollocks. Why not go the distance when your entire usp is pastiche? If Harry Enfield - Harry Enfield! - could nail it nearly 30 years ago, why can't Disney now?


I think it works for a short clip but whole episodes made to look that way would get a bit tiresome. Also it never quite looks right. The Harry Enfield old film clips are well done but there's still things about them which don't quite look authentic. Trying to get an exact replica of a certain time period film/TV look is a fools errand, kind of like trying to make a CGI person that looks like a real person. Too many subtleties.

Bewitched was shot on 35mm and looks pretty close to what they've achieved with Wandavision, but there's always things that will give it away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdXz75BMY6U&ab_channel=BacosFilm

Dr Rock

Quote from: Magnum Valentino on January 17, 2021, 10:00:18 AM
No mate, I'm sorry but that's bollocks. Why not go the distance when your entire usp is pastiche? If Harry Enfield - Harry Enfield! - could nail it nearly 30 years ago, why can't Disney now?

There's a reason why none of the Marvel output is truly great and people making excuses for them's a big part of it.

Also, as others have said, it's not funny and old American sitcoms are plenty funny. This is much more 'ha ha isn't it different?' than its apparent intention merits.

But it's not just going to be Wanda and Vision living through different sitcoms. That's just the starting point, and I'll judge it properly once we see how that leads to the plot proper, allegedly with Mephisto and shit.

Magnum Valentino

Totally fair point, I just mean for those two episodes the sitcom gags weren't any good. I'm interested to see what comes next, but I reckon unfortunately the interest isn't likely to become true entertainment.

I think it's because so much of the show's appeal is rooted in its gimmick and its gimmick isn't robustly enough realised to justify doing in the first place.

I will keep watching though and look forward to discussing it here  :-)

Alberon

I can see what they're going for, but it just gets tedious over two episodes. Skipped through far too much of it.

Hopefully the third episode starts to bring the real plot more to the fore, or at least have the weird protuding more into the corners of the show, as it's getting a bit dull right now.

Maybe if it was more centred on British shows I could be more interested in the actual sitcom each episode. The third episode should be in the 70s and I'd really like to see them tacking The Good Life.

kalowski

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on January 17, 2021, 02:20:13 PM
I think it works for a short clip but whole episodes made to look that way would get a bit tiresome. Also it never quite looks right. The Harry Enfield old film clips are well done but there's still things about them which don't quite look authentic. Trying to get an exact replica of a certain time period film/TV look is a fools errand, kind of like trying to make a CGI person that looks like a real person. Too many subtleties.

Bewitched was shot on 35mm and looks pretty close to what they've achieved with Wandavision, but there's always things that will give it away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdXz75BMY6U&ab_channel=BacosFilm
I think Woody Allen's Zelig best replicated the look of old film.

Mr_Simnock

Quote from: Magnum Valentino on January 17, 2021, 10:00:18 AM
No mate, I'm sorry but that's bollocks. Why not go the distance when your entire usp is pastiche? If Harry Enfield - Harry Enfield! - could nail it nearly 30 years ago, why can't Disney now?

There's a reason why none of the Marvel output is truly great and people making excuses for them's a big part of it.


Also, as others have said, it's not funny and old American sitcoms are plenty funny. This is much more 'ha ha isn't it different?' than its apparent intention merits.


kidsick5000

I love this stuff.
We've not had such a clue-laden series since the heyday of Lost.
Everything in it is a clue. It's a televisual escape room.
I'm glad it's weekly. More satisfying that way.
Who knows if it can stick the landing when it gets to the resolution.
It's just fun getting there.

Plus, Paul Bettany looks to be having a blast.

Custard

Didn't know Bettany is 18 years older than Olsen. Not that it really matters, but yeah. Bit of trivia, trivia lovers

Mister Six

Quote from: Magnum Valentino on January 17, 2021, 02:38:59 PM
I think it's because so much of the show's appeal is rooted in its gimmick and its gimmick isn't robustly enough realised to justify doing in the first place.

Yes, exactly. The point of the thing is watching these cosy, familiar sitcom surroundings crumble and bleed away at the edges and become truly unsettling. The choking scene in the first episode evoked some of that well, but the incongruity is lost when it doesn't really look like an old TV show that's falling apart at the seams, but a half-arsed modern pastiche of an old TV show. We should be watching two realities (sitcom world, real world) jostling for control - instead it's one reality (a Marvel TV show) with some colour grading going on.

Plus, the sitcoms aren't actually funny themselves for the most part, which makes that side of things a chore.

Mister Six

Quote from: kidsick5000 on January 17, 2021, 07:39:16 PM
Plus, Paul Bettany looks to be having a blast.

IIRC, he was thinking of quitting acting before he got the gig as JARVIS in Iron Man. Must be really glad he stuck around now.

Mister Six

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on January 17, 2021, 02:20:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdXz75BMY6U&ab_channel=BacosFilm

Hm, not really though. Look at how tight everything is, how cramped the sets are and how the lenses squish everything together.

The sound is fucked on this clip, but look at how close-in all the shots are, how flat the lighting is. Nothing like the wider shots in the second Wandavision episode: https://youtu.be/uEJgnDhvK5M

sirhenry

Quote from: Mister Six on January 17, 2021, 07:49:52 PM
Yes, exactly. The point of the thing is watching these cosy, familiar sitcom surroundings crumble and bleed away at the edges and become truly unsettling. The choking scene in the first episode evoked some of that well, but the incongruity is lost when it doesn't really look like an old TV show that's falling apart at the seams, but a half-arsed modern pastiche of an old TV show. We should be watching two realities (sitcom world, real world) jostling for control - instead it's one reality (a Marvel TV show) with some colour grading going on.

Plus, the sitcoms aren't actually funny themselves for the most part, which makes that side of things a chore.
This is the problem I have with it. It's not a new idea and the material itself isn't enough to keep up any interest, so it's just a load of padding waiting for a plot. It feels like a condensed version of so many shows where fans tell you it's brilliant, but the first series is a bit shit really but by series 4 it really gets into its stride but you can't skip the first 3 series because they are needed for background for the good stuff in later series and they won't make sense without the background... And you realise it would be quicker, easier and less painful for everyone involved just to not watch it at all.

The pre-release interviews with writers, director, etc. all focused entirely on the brilliant reconstructions of sitcoms from 2-3 generations ago and how the two leads were born for this stuff and so on. Which does make me wonder if the reveal will be worth it in the end or if the people behind it know that they have to get as many people on side before it turns to clichéd drivel.
Can't wait, won't wait.

Custard

Bewitched was quite funny,  from the little I remember. Far better than the sitcom in this, anyway

phantom_power

Quote from: Mister Six on January 17, 2021, 07:49:52 PM
Yes, exactly. The point of the thing is watching these cosy, familiar sitcom surroundings crumble and bleed away at the edges and become truly unsettling. The choking scene in the first episode evoked some of that well, but the incongruity is lost when it doesn't really look like an old TV show that's falling apart at the seams, but a half-arsed modern pastiche of an old TV show. We should be watching two realities (sitcom world, real world) jostling for control - instead it's one reality (a Marvel TV show) with some colour grading going on.

Plus, the sitcoms aren't actually funny themselves for the most part, which makes that side of things a chore.

It looks enough like those shows that 90% of the audience won't notice the difference, or care about the difference. I think it is a fairly niche chunk of viewers that give a shit about that sort of thing

I am always surprised when online critics think that people who have spent months and years making something have put less thought into it than someone who spent half an hour watching it. There is very likely a good reason, or at least a reason of some sort, why it doesn't look exactly like the thing it is trying to ape

Magnum Valentino

Maybe the argument there is that they cared, but they didn't care enough. This is only a couple of steps above turning the colour off and adding one of those "scratchy" filters. Naturally it's easier to satisfy that 90% and I accept that as someone in the 10% I shouldn't really be watching. This Disney stuff is enjoyable time filler stuff but the reason I'm invested here was because they tried something new without going all the way.

I think I'm waiting for something to come along and really having a shot at fooling someone into believing it was made decades before it really was, and this ain't it. Like Bait or something. Believably old.

I'm sure there's an argument to made for appreciating it just for what it is, but my counter to that is that the whole point of what it is is what it isn't.

I cannot be convinced otherwise of course. Interesting reading the defences, other than those that make presumptions about 'types' of people which I don't buy into. What's an "online critic" in this context? It's a discussion forum. I'm not a critic I'm a viewer like.

I think the reason, to your last point, that it doesn't look exactly like the thing it's trying to ape is because, as evidenced by this thread, it's not worth the extra effort because people accept what they're presented with. Why consult a cinematographer when you can watch Bewitched on DVD and have a go yourself? Sure it's 4:3 and period furniture and black and white, right?

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I also thought it didn't look 100% spot on (too sharp, for one thing) but it hardly breaks the premise of the show. I'm already well aware that it's a pastiche. The question - the whole point of the show really - is how did they get there?
Also, Vision was dead last time we saw him. So there's that.