Statue "protection" propsals

[bgmnts]

thats because Churchill is British and those people are dirty foreigners! didn't you pay attention at school?

[checkoutgirl]

There are already laws against baying mobs taking down statues on a whim, criminal damage laws I imagine. Further, how can you legislate for a baying mob? What baying mob in the heat of the moment gives a shit about legislation old or new?

I actually agree with the principle but aren't these statues usually attacked when some innocent black man gets shot? In those circumstances my sympathies invariably flip back to the mob.

What a waste of time. They should focus on Brexit or something that matters like starving English children and education and poverty and shit like that.

[Johnny Yesno]

yes. and it's been said many times.

imagine there's a vote and the 'not removing the statues' side wins. you can't trust local justice. democracy's fucking scam I tell ya

It was announced in February 2018 that historians and a group of children from Colston Primary School - the school that was about to be renamed - would work together on creating a second plaque. It was hoped this would be the compromise that everyone would be satisfied with.

The saga of what happened with the plaque is long, and involved drafts being rewritten and then challenged and edited by Francis Greenacre, a local historian who is also a member of the Society of Merchant Venturers.

There was controversy. The words were picked over in detail and it seemed every word was challenged and debated.

The first drafts of this second plaque included references to the fact Colston was a Tory MP for Bristol - that was objected to by Mr Greenacre and by Richard Eddy, a Conservative councillor on the city council.

The original 1895 plaque read: "Erected by citizens of Bristol as a memorial of one of the most virtuous and wise sons of their city".

The first draft of the proposed second plaque, drawn up by the project in the first half of 2018, would read:

"As a high official of the Royal African Company from 1680 to 1692, Edward Colston played an active role in the enslavement of over 84,000 Africans (including 12,000 children) of whom over 19,000 died en route to the Caribbean and America.

"Colston also invested in the Spanish slave trade and in slave-produced sugar. As Tory MP for Bristol (1710-1713), he defended the city's 'right' to trade in enslaved Africans.

"Bristolians who did not subscribe to his religious and political beliefs were not permitted to benefit from his charities."

A second draft, and then a third argued over the meaning of the words throughout much of 2018.

The historians tasked with coming up with the wording wrote 'trafficking' to describe the way in which enslaved African men, women and children were taken from Africa to America and the Caribbean - those objecting and coming up with their own drafts used the word 'transported'.

In the July, and faced with the prospect of the official council-commissioned project to come up with the wording of the plaque digging in over the debate, Cllr Richard Eddy went public again.

He said he objected so strongly to the proposed wording of the proposed plaque that if it were put onto the statue of Edward Colston, then vandalising it or stealing it 'may be justified'.

By August, Mr Greenacre's alternative draft even dropped the word 'enslaved' to describe those people, and those involved in the process accused the supporters of Edward Colston of 'sanitising' the slave trade.

The row continued, but behind closed doors. Compromises appear to have been reached, and the project went as far as actually commissioning the plaque to be made.

But in March 2019, a year after it was first announced that it would happen, and within days of the plaque supposedly unveiled, there was a problem.

Bristol's Mayor Marvin Rees saw the words that had been agreed upon, and didn't like it. It was announced that the project had been scrapped, but the Mayor said no, he'd just ordered a rewrite.

And the Mayor's Office and the council blasted the Merchant Venturers for getting involved.

"It was extremely naive of the Merchant Venturers to believe they should have the final say on the words for a new plaque for the statue of Edward Colston without reference to the communities of descendants of those Africans who were enslaved and treated as commodities by merchants like Colston," a spokesperson said.

"It's an oversight to put it mildly not to even have had a conversation with Mayor Marvin Rees, Europe's first mayor of African heritage and the mayor of a city whose wealth has been inseparable from slavery and plantations and who is himself the descendant of enslaved Africans.

"The proposed words are unacceptable. We will pick this back up as part of our wider work on improving our cultural offer around the transatlantic slave trade," he added.

The plaque never happened in the 15 months since. The Colston Hall renovation project has stalled over complications with the building and with the coronavirus pandemic, and the new name for the concert hall is yet to be revealed.

The statue remained in place as the 2010s ended, and 2020 began with no official moves to even discuss the statue or a second plaque.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/how-city-failed-remove-edward-4211771

[Hand Solo]

Nobody has made a statue-tory-rape-pun yet, so there's that.

[idunnosomename]

imagine a statue of this

[TheBrownBottle]

Why don't we take down the statues which are liable to be targeted, such as slavers, racists and war criminals, and put those statues in museums.  You could put the war people in the Imperial War museum; slavers in the International Slavery Museum; and the racists in Lawrence Fox's back garden or something.  It would give context and doesn't offer veneration (this may not apply in Fox's case, but at least it would get them out of sight).

Or we could leave them up, signalling Britain's continuing position of unrepentant criminality in these matters.  Which also works in a way, but I'd suggest is probably a bit more upsetting.

[Buelligan]

I wouldn't mind so much if we did a statue of everyone.  Having statues of racists, slavers and warmongers about the place is a thing but where are their victims?  And where are the lovely people, the mums, the flower-growers, who tripped over this soft earth kindly and raised us all?  Few and fucking far between.  I'm sure they don't care, but still.

I think we should offer to cast Robert Jenrick's feet in concrete and throw them off Beachy Head.  There, I've said it.

Or string him up by that cunt shameless lie of a silk tie.  What a fucking cunt.

[Sonny_Jim]

Apropos of nothing, an acquatance of mine was explaining to me how kicking Trump off twitter was wrong and that I should listen to some Jordan Peterson.  I explained to him where I come from, we throw statues into the river.  He stopped bringing it up then.

[dissolute ocelot]

There are already laws against baying mobs taking down statues on a whim, criminal damage laws I imagine. Further, how can you legislate for a baying mob? What baying mob in the heat of the moment gives a shit about legislation old or new?

Almost all statues older than about 1960 are protected by the listed building scheme which means even the legal owner needs to apply to the council to modify or remove, and the council is then supposed to publish the proposal and solicit objections. So exactly what the government is proposing already happens. Even more recent statues will be covered by other, similar aspects of planning law. And obviously it's illegal to knock down, steal, or dump anybody else's statue.

If this does become law, everyone should build statues of whoever they like, be it Herbert Chitepo, the Mau Mau, Wolfe Tone, or Viv Albertine, and sue the council when you're told to take it down for infringing your rights as an Englishperson. What's that you say, Boris, the rules only apply to statues of True British Heroes like Cap'n Tom, not to statues that black people (or aging punks) put up?

[TheBrownBottle]

I wouldn't mind so much if we did a statue of everyone.  Having statues of racists, slavers and warmongers about the place is a thing but where are their victims?  And where are the lovely people, the mums, the flower-growers, who tripped over this soft earth kindly and raised us all?  Few and fucking far between.  I'm sure they don't care, but still.

I'd be happier with no statues of anyone in all honesty.  But if we must have them, I'd be happier with your suggestions.

It's standard culture war distraction shite from the Tories of course, because Brexit & COVID are making them look like the useless, venal fuckers that we all know they are; they're acting soundly in a strategic sense too, as plenty are daft enough to fall for it.  Just watch as most of the population forgets that just last week there was a scandal involving feeding children from low income households.  In terms of the statues, of course they'll never admit that there was many years of peaceful campaigning and polite requests to remove statues of bastards like Colston, before he took his dramatic swan dive.

[Paul Calf]

thats because Churchill is good and those people are bad! didn't you pay attention at school?

Of course I didn't. That's why I'm here.

[Sebastian Cobb]

[idunnosomename]

There should be a statue of Priti Patel's big bottom

[Buelligan]

Heheh.  Lovely.

[Marner and Me]

imagine a statue of this

Oh yes please

[Marner and Me]

There should be a statue of Priti Patel's big bottom

Better yet, have it as one of those fake arses so I can use it that people use as a sex toy.

[Paul Calf]

Obvious, but...