Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 04:27:46 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Is it too early for a re-assessment of This Time?

Started by Utter Shit, January 20, 2021, 02:49:52 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Utter Shit

Quote from: petrilTanaka on January 21, 2021, 01:08:07 PM
for the more Irish and Irish-aware audience, there's the bonus of knowing that an old man starting singing like in a pub has the potential of turning into rebel songs, so that little bit of tension has a payoff because of course he does, he's on Alan's show, Alan doesn't learn how to deal with things from his mistakes

It's an incredible good bit of acting from Coogan, the little details really show how much he knows about Irish culture (he mentions his background a lot in his book and it clearly informs a lot of his work).

Not just the perfectly observed clothes that are ostensibly smart but are so ill-fitting that they look scruffy, but endless subtle little mannerisms like drumming his fingers on his knee, the casual way he leans back, the little flicks of the head when he answers a question, pointing and gesturing as he describes the computer, moving forward and sort of leaning down as he speaks directly to Alan and looking, the conspiratorial looks to the audience/his mates when he makes a joke...all of that in the space of a minute or so.

The attention to detail is unreal, anyone from an Irish family will recognise that character from every pub in Ireland, and know that the character wouldn't change his ways whether he's in the local pub or on a TV show in front of millions.

QDRPHNC

Quote from: BeardFaceMan on January 21, 2021, 02:17:10 PM
But that's because you're judging it as an actual show and it's not, it's a spoof.

No, I'm judging it as a spoof. I'm aware of what I'm watching. It fails as a spoof, in my opinion. Or at least, large parts of it do. Some of it is very funny.

Quote from: BeardFaceMan on January 21, 2021, 02:17:10 PM
Look at all the things that happened in KMKY, that was purporting to be a mainstream chat show and there's a whole mass of things that happened on that show that would never happen on real tv, but no one ever seems to mention realism or being taken out of the comedy when talking about KMKY.

I don't think KMKY is a Partridge highlight either. But what you're ignoring is that KMKY and TT both have their own specific contexts in which they can succeed or fail, it goes deeper than "but they're both spoof shows!" They're both spoofs of different types of shows, in different time periods, with different creative teams, in the differing contexts of the character himself.

Quote from: BeardFaceMan on January 21, 2021, 02:17:10 PM
I'm not saying turn your brain off, but you're creating your own reason to be disappointed by saying "but that would never happen in real life", it's not meant to be real life, it's heightened reality so things that wouldn't usually happen do happen for comedic purposes.

Absolutely meaningless, I could just as easily say you're creating your own reasons to like it. People don't create reasons to find something funny or not, they just find it funny or not.

Quote from: BeardFaceMan on January 21, 2021, 02:17:10 PM
Now if you don't find that kind of thing funny then fair fucks to you, but if you can't give a rational reason for it taking you out of the comedy then it doesn't sound like a fair critique, that's not really a fault of the show.

Again, meaningless. Ultimately, you can't give me a rational reason why you do find it funny, you just do.

BeardFaceMan

Quote from: QDRPHNC on January 21, 2021, 02:28:47 PM
Absolutely meaningless, I could just as easily say you're creating your own reasons to like it. People don't create reasons to find something funny or not, they just find it funny or not.

And yet, saying

QuoteI can't give you a rational reason why, say, the idea of Alan filming his Donty gotcha moment outside the restaurant he knows Donty is about to come out of, then legs it in a car, then somehow all of that makes it through the editing process of what is supposed to be a mainstream show, bothers me and takes me out of the comedy, but it does.

seems to be exactly what you're doing. Again, it's not trying to be a realistic show like The One Show so that's not a failing of the show, criticizing a spoof for being unrealistic is pretty meaningless as the whole point of a spoof is to exaggerate. Now if you don't like spoofs or don't find the show funny, fair enough, nothing wrong with that, but that's not a fault of the show, it's doing it's job. With comments like the above you're more criticizing the mechanics of the show than whether it's funny, and the mechanics are just fine.

Utter Shit

I don't think that reads like he is looking for a reason to dislike it...I mean he literally says he doesn't know why it annoys him, it just does. If he was looking for a reason to dislike it, wouldn't he provide one?

QDRPHNC

Quote from: BeardFaceMan on January 21, 2021, 02:58:20 PM
seems to be exactly what you're doing. Again, it's not trying to be a realistic show like The One Show so that's not a failing of the show, criticizing a spoof for being unrealistic is pretty meaningless as the whole point of a spoof is to exaggerate. Now if you don't like spoofs or don't find the show funny, fair enough, nothing wrong with that, but that's not a fault of the show, it's doing it's job. With comments like the above you're more criticizing the mechanics of the show than whether it's funny, and the mechanics are just fine.

Most people would agree The Naked Gun is a good spoof, and Scary Movie 4 is a bad spoof.

BeardFaceMan

Quote from: Utter Shit on January 21, 2021, 03:01:52 PM
I don't think that reads like he is looking for a reason to dislike it...I mean he literally says he doesn't know why it annoys him, it just does. If he was looking for a reason to dislike it, wouldn't he provide one?

Never said he was looking for a reason, but that he was creating a reason based on something the show isn't trying to be.

BeardFaceMan

Quote from: QDRPHNC on January 21, 2021, 03:05:59 PM
Most people would agree The Naked Gun is a good spoof, and Scary Movie 4 is a bad spoof.

True, but people would say its a bad spoof because Scary Movie 4 isn't funny, not because it's unrealistic and things that happen in that film wouldn't happen in real life/ in a real scary movie.

QDRPHNC

So what you're saying is that any spoof can't be criticized on any point regarding realism, in any context?

Quote from: BeardFaceMan on January 21, 2021, 03:10:26 PM
True, but people would say its a bad spoof because Scary Movie 4 isn't funny, not because it's unrealistic and things that happen in that film wouldn't happen in real life/ in a real scary movie.

I disagree. The Naked Gun spoofs its subject well, Scary Movie 4 spoofs its subject badly. That is partly why one succeeds and one fails.

I have already said I find parts of TT very funny. Fundamentally, the show is 100% unrealistic. AP would never be invited to present, Sidekick Simon would never have a role, etc. So clearly I am able to engage with it in the way you maintain is the only correct way to engage with it. Where we differ, is that I think some parts of it - too many - stretch the conceit beyond breaking point.

It's possible for a spoof to do that. To go too far in exaggeration, become unmoored and lose the plot in the process.

In addition, I think parts of TT are also just poorly-written comedy, if that helps.

BeardFaceMan

Quote from: QDRPHNC on January 21, 2021, 03:15:14 PM
So what you're saying is that any spoof can't be criticized on any point regarding realism, in any context?

I disagree. The Naked Gun spoofs its subject well, Scary Movie 4 spoofs its subject badly.

No, what I'm saying is it's silly to criticize TT for being unrealistic when it's not trying to be realistic. If you want to extrapolate that to mean every spoof ever in any context ever, then go for it. It's not an exact science but you wouldnt be far wrong, seeing as the whole point of a spoof is to exaggerate things so you get things happening that wouldn't normally be happening. That point is key, really. If you're not a huge fan of KMKY either then might I suggest that spoofs maybe aren't for you?

And yes, Scary Movie 4 spoofs them badly with bad comedy, hence why it isn't funny. Not because it's unrealistic but because it has shit jokes.

Edit -
Quote
Fundamentally, the show is 100% unrealistic.
Which is why it's pointless going down the "but that would never happen" rabbithole.

Quote
In addition, I think parts of TT are also just poorly-written comedy, if that helps.

Yes, it does. As I've said from the very beginning, that's a fine and fair criticism.

Edit again -

Quote from: QDRPHNC on January 21, 2021, 03:15:14 PM
So clearly I am able to engage with it in the way you maintain is the only correct way to engage with it.

Never said that either, just that you're judging it for something it's not trying to be.

QDRPHNC

You skipped over the part where I said even a spoof can go too far in exaggeration, and I think TT does, too often.

Also, you don't really know how realistic or unrealistic TT was intended to be. In fact you don't even know if it's a spoof. Is MMM a spoof of regional radio or a satire? Rhetorical question.

All I know is, I don't find large parts of TT funny, and the reason I don't find them funny is because they break my suspension of disbelief even within the context of what it is.

I mean, you can continue trying to talk me out of it, but I don't think you're going to have much luck.

BeardFaceMan

TT was mentioned as being a spoof in the press leading up to the broadcast.

Rich Uncle Skeleton

was that an in-universe press release though? Ahhhh

Mr Trumpet

Quote from: Utter Shit on January 21, 2021, 02:23:06 PM
It's an incredible good bit of acting from Coogan, the little details really show how much he knows about Irish culture (he mentions his background a lot in his book and it clearly informs a lot of his work).

Not just the perfectly observed clothes that are ostensibly smart but are so ill-fitting that they look scruffy, but endless subtle little mannerisms like drumming his fingers on his knee, the casual way he leans back, the little flicks of the head when he answers a question, pointing and gesturing as he describes the computer, moving forward and sort of leaning down as he speaks directly to Alan and looking, the conspiratorial looks to the audience/his mates when he makes a joke...all of that in the space of a minute or so.

The attention to detail is unreal, anyone from an Irish family will recognise that character from every pub in Ireland, and know that the character wouldn't change his ways whether he's in the local pub or on a TV show in front of millions.

I was in pieces from the moment he appeared, even before he spoke. But yeah, Coogan has said that as a child he had uncles in County Mayo who were very much like this.

Seedsy

I've actually really enjoyed the rewatch. Let's be honest, it's a bit patchy, where I think mid morning matters is utter gold. There is enough on genuinely classic Alan moments. I particularly enjoy his hostile correspondence with Ruth Duggan.

DrGreggles

The cut to Simon (and his expression) during the Irish Alan song had me in fucking hysterics.

Seedsy

Quote from: DrGreggles on January 21, 2021, 10:28:36 PM
The cut to Simon (and his expression) during the Irish Alan song had me in fucking hysterics.

Also Alan being very protective of Simon when he asks the girl out. Love that.

Uncle TechTip

How about we say that KMKY was a brilliant spoof of the chat show genre, and successfully skewered its conventions and tropes through the 'device' of the inept everyman who sometimes saw through the illusion of chummy stars all getting along, just as we often did. It changed the genre for ever.

TT was positioned to a degree as something similar, but it never really reached such heights. It was just a way to make Alan say absurd things. Maybe Simon's Twitter wall, or the Irish guest, were some examples of the same thing, and they were of quality, but it was never enough.

On the other hand, IAP wasn't concerned with adhering to a format so the scene changes from "on-screen" to "off-screen" are more natural. On-screen in the sense of watching Alan work versus the freedom to speak more naturally when not working. Much of the joy in KMKY comes from the fact that Alan is trapped in the on-screen situation so his uttered absurdities, that ought to be off-screen, are even funnier.

DrGreggles

KMKY (telly) is probably my least favourite Partridge series these days.
Loved it at the time, and some of it remains brilliant, but it's not aged too well.

bgmnts

The shots of Alan in Paris in his abysmal attire is one of my biggest Partridge laughs. So I'll give that to KMKY.

St_Eddie

#49
Quote from: QDRPHNC on January 21, 2021, 02:28:47 PM
Absolutely meaningless, I could just as easily say you're creating your own reasons to like it. People don't create reasons to find something funny or not, they just find it funny or not.

Preciously.  It's grand that certain viewers weren't taken out of their enjoyment of the show during credibility stretching moments but it's important to respect that others were.  If someone is sat there, watching a show or film and something happens within that show or film which takes them out of it and causes them to stop engaging because they're suddenly able to see the seams of the writing, then that's a problem for the person experiencing it.  That it didn't bother someone else watching is irrelevant.

To try and tell somebody that they're essentially wrong for being bothered by an aspect of a show or film; for having a reactive thought enter their head through no choice of their own and for their enjoyment of the show or film to be negatively affected as a result; to tell them that they're wrong for doing so, just because you personally weren't bothered by the same thing they were, is asinine.  What was the person supposed to do, deny that they were bothered by a wonky bit of internal logic within the show or film and never speak of it; to just deny their own personal experience and to censor their own critical opinion?  May as well just say "you're watching it wrong".  Rather ecocentric mindset, that.

petril

Quote from: DrGreggles on January 21, 2021, 11:13:12 PM
KMKY (telly) is probably my least favourite Partridge series these days.
Loved it at the time, and some of it remains brilliant, but it's not aged too well.

the very first guest is very good though, captures the ignorance, laziness and ego of Alan right away and you know what the character is if you've never seen before

like when a wrestler gets those early matches where its four minutes beating people and showing all the key bits: the entrance, the taunts and the cool moves they do

Shaky

I love the bit with the canine protestors where Alan rushes to the door and mutters, "Get out of the fucking way."

gilbertharding

Everyone quibbling that 'this' or 'that' would never happen on a real tv show have clearly never seen The One Show.

Likewise, it is probably hard to watch KMKY today without the immediate memory of things like Wogan, or Aspel (I'm thinking of the episode where the entire show was hijacked for the launch of Bruce Willis's hamburger restaurant).

TT and KMKY both take specific recognisable things which have definitely happened in the genre of shows being dealt with, mash a few together, change the names to protect the innocent, and then present them as farce.

amateur

Watching the first episode again now.

This handwashing bit is quite topical!

JamesTC

Has anybody considered that This Time might be Alan's heaven after his death in the last episode of Mid Morning Matters?

Retinend

Heaven would be very different for him, though

THAT SAID I suppose Jenny does seem to be endlessly obliging at first. It did have a sort of too-good-to-be-true feel to it at first.

It would be an interesting idea for a plotline: one where Partridge almost died and we would see what he hallucinated.

Cuellar

Quote from: amateur on January 22, 2021, 09:55:58 PM
Watching the first episode again now.

This handwashing bit is quite topical!

It's amazing how these things can seep into your consciousness. When everyone was saying 'WASH YOUR HANDS FOR 20 SECONDS', I kept hearing '15 is fine' from this bit, and I found myself actually only washing my hands for 15. So who knows what sort of propaganda the actual One Show is injecting its viewers with.

neveragain

British Comedy Guide said we should get new episodes by the end of this month. Seems a bit unlikely now...

Mobius

Been relistening to From The Oast House this week and it's one of my favourite Partridge things. It's a shame it didn't get more publicity really, I suppose it's only a podcast but god it's cracking. Some great rambling Partridge.

St_Eddie

Quote from: Mobius on January 24, 2021, 11:47:57 PM
Been relistening to From The Oast House this week and it's one of my favourite Partridge things. It's a shame it didn't get more publicity really, I suppose it's only a podcast but god it's cracking. Some great rambling Partridge.

The worst thing I can say about From The Oast House is that its theme tune is a fucking ear worm.  Alannnnnn Partridge from the Oast House. Alan Partridge from the Oast house.  Frommmmmm the Oast Houssssssssssse, with Alan Partridge.  From the Oast House.  With Alan Partridge.  Alllaaaaaaannnnnnn Partridgeeeeeeeeeee from the Oast House.  Alannnnnnnn Partridge from the Oast House. From the Oast House.  From the Oast House, with Alan Partrdigggggeeeeee.

Whirs around my head when I'm trying to get to sleep.  Gah!