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Lettings deposit dispute, AKA give me my money you fucking awful cunts

Started by The Mollusk, February 01, 2021, 04:08:03 PM

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The Mollusk

The infinite universe, being the ugly, bloated, hateful pustule that it is, seemingly not content to send my mental health spiralling into the barren abyss of howling shit that loosely resembles the basement in Lucio Fulci's "The Beyond" throughout the past year - culminating in unemployment, existential despair and a camera up the arse after a few months of shitting blood three times a day - has now seen fit to test my mettle once more with a very stressful and exhaustive dispute process with our former letting agents in order to ensure that not only do I not deserve a moment's peace, but that I should also spend each unpeaceful moment in a state of stressful fatigue with knots in my stomach and clenches in my fists and jaw.

In other words, letting agents are, unsurprisingly, uncaring and vulturous shit-eating soul-fuckers, and I find myself now strapping into the rusted and discomfiting gauntlet to do battle with them for money which means relatively nothing to them and a fucking damn sight more than nothing to me and my partner.

I'll try to keep this brief.

As a seasoned property inspector with nearly a decade of experience in the field, I was understandably dismayed last January when we moved into our new home and our letting agent, after first laughably trying to tell me we weren't entitled to receive our inventory report because we didn't pay £140 for a "meet and greet service", eventually backed down without apology and sent us the document detailing the full condition of our flat which was, to be extremely polite, cursory, substandard and a fucking heap of shite.

Knowing that a tenant has 7 days to bring any faults within the report to the attention of the agency, that very night I went through the property and tore the document a new arsehole with swathes of amendment notes and about 65 additional photographs. Receipt was confirmed of these amendments but at no point were we presented with a new report with my notes added in, nor were we asked to then sign the finished report. Whatever, it matters relatively not, since a time-stamped email paper chain is more than sufficient, should any disputes arrive at the end of the tenancy.

Now, a year later, after numerous unresolved issues including a rising damp problem and a nasty little prick of a contractor visiting and telling me that drying our clothes in the bathroom with the door closed once a week was the cause of the spreading mould on the external walls in the kitchen and living room, we vacated the property for pastures, erm, less mouldy, and the checkout report was conducted. Imagine the ensuing hilarity when not only did the report fail to consider my amendment notes but in several areas didn't even appear to have been compared against the original fucking inventory, and was delivered with the curt message that "the landlord may wish to make deductions based on the findings".

I kid you not: Every single issue or defect noted on that report was inaccurate and/or unnecessary and we have sufficient enough objective evidential grounds to dispute every point bar none. As dismal and disappointing as it was to have to spend 5 hours of my personal time writing an email contesting them at every turn because they can't do their fucking job properly, it had to be done. I would rather go through the arduous dispute process and fight tooth and nail to get every penny of that £1400 back (yes, the deposit on a 1-bed flat is £1400, FUCK London) than bend over and give up and potentially lose half of it. They can fuck off.

It's been a full week now since I sent that lengthy email and they haven't even responded to confirm receipt of it. We've been out of the property for half a month and we have no idea what's happening with our money. It's held within the Tenancy Deposit Scheme and if we don't hear back from the agent soon, I am tempted to open the dispute with TDS myself. The thing is, I quite rightly feel extremely uneasy about having to be the one to open that door and unleash the hell within, but I'm within my rights to do so, aren't I? It's not just the landlord or the agent that can start the process, right?

If anyone has any advice or support, I'd greatly appreciate it! No matter what happens, I will fight this until my fingers are bloody stumps and my throat is stripped bare, but I need reassurance. It's pretty scary.

Oh and once this is all over, I will be dragging their names through the mud at every given opportunity. Vile pricks.

Shit Good Nose

Firstly let's acknowledge to the rest of CaB (because we all know how threads about property and money go) that, yes, we know - first world problems, lucky to have somewhere warm to call home, etc etc.  But these are still problems relative to our own respective situations and do not make it any easier for us.  Okay?  Good.


Completely different situation (we're home owners near Bath), but I totally sympathise and empathise with you. 

I'm sick to death of the house we live in now (Victorian miners cottage) because nearly every year we've lived here I've had to pay £2-3grand to fix something, and it's never fucking ending - new roof, new boiler, new chimney stack, external end wall pinned, gutters and fascias done, etc etc, and just recently within the last week the floorboards in our bathroom appear to be breaking/collapsing right where the water pipes go.  Of course that's where they've decided to give way.  I SHOULD have about £15-20K built up in savings by now (or that much extra paid off the mortgage), but I've got practically nothing left.

We investigated moving last year, but because it's all done on this fucking loan-to-value business rather than what you can actually afford to pay we couldn't even borrow enough to do a decent sideways move, despite the fact we've got over 50% equity in the place.  And now Mrs Nose has lost her job, so we're stuck here for at least another few years whilst I wonder what bit of the house is going to majorly fuck up next.  It's REALLY getting me down and I am now starting to lose sleep with the stress and constant worry about whatever that next thing is going to be.

Sorry to say I can't offer any advice (I've never rented), but I'm all in with support - keep fighting and hopefully it gets sorted.

badaids


I had a very similar situation to your about 2 years ago, except 2,000 was being held to ransom.

It took another 6 months of what your are doing now, but in the end the letting agent and landlord gave back all the money. It was infuriating to have to spend my time and brain power on it, but oh so sweet when the caved in and when the money turned up.

So keep strong, keep going, don't let the bastards get away with it. You will get there.

NoSleep


bgmnts

Do a roundhouse kick on the letting agent so hard that his head comes off.

Sebastian Cobb

This is why I set fire to every flat I leave. I lose my deposit but at least I know I deserved to.

The Mollusk

Quote from: NoSleep on February 01, 2021, 04:31:49 PM
Looks like they picked the wrong person to fuck with.

I did tell them when we came to first view the place, "Sorry if I take a bit longer than most with this. I'm a professional property inspector." I think they just assume that, especially in London, no matter their experience, most people are essentially weak-willed and would sooner take a shafting than put themselves through the horrible stress of a legal battle.

The most depressing thing about all this, of course, is that it's our money, and the other parties remain totally unaffected by whatever outcome. Their entire approach throughout this tenancy has been lazy and uncaring, and they're a big company with several offices across the city, so they basically lose nothing. I have to fight for what's mine and there's no great moral superiority for me to flex if I even win. People like that should suffer but they never will. Absolutely everything action they take during and after the tenancy is a shrug of the shoulders and a dismissive wave of the hand. It's fucking revolting.

markburgle

I've had this situation before, happy to say they caved fairly quickly, the cunts were just trying it on. Have you rung them to ask what's happening or are you trying to avoid having to actually speak to them? I'd be surprised if they can be arsed to really go the distance fighting someone who knows the industry.

Go down their offices and play this on repeat on a big speaker, singing along, replacing the words "real American" with "property inspector" just so they know you mean business.

The Mollusk

Quote from: markburgle on February 01, 2021, 04:47:09 PM
I've had this situation before, happy to say they caved fairly quickly, the cunts were just trying it on. Have you rung them to ask what's happening or are you trying to avoid having to actually speak to them? I'd be surprised if they can be arsed to really go the distance fighting someone who knows the industry.

Tried calling them today, no answer and the call diverted to the head office. I told them to get the local office to call me back ASAP.

I've been through this shite once before about 12 years ago, when a landlord tried to pin a rising damp problem on us being negligent. This was partly because - and I'm not kidding here - 3 days after we moved out, our house was struck by lightning and all the sockets exploded out of the walls. She wasn't insured by act of god stuff and clearly wanted to milk us for the deposit to cover the damages. It took around 6 months but we completely won.

The Crumb

Deposit stuff is a load of shite. Currently in a dispute for part of mine through TDS, i would definitely kick the process off through there. The initial step should just be to formally request your deposit back through the online portal. If the landlord persists with requesting deductions, there's some forms to counter argue, then you'll be required to submit your evidence. We got the undisputed portion back quickly after kicking off the process.

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: bgmnts on February 01, 2021, 04:38:33 PM
Do a roundhouse kick on the letting agent so hard that his head comes off.

Or get that Hereford binman to do it, he needs the work.

Ferris

I suspect they're a lazy bunch of cunts who are just trying it on, and if you actually challenge them and open a case with the TDS to get your money back, they'll fold like a cheap umbrella and hand it over because that's too much effort to fight and for every one of you there are twenty others who are easier to rip off. Cunts.

Sorry you're having to deal with it though. Hope it goes alright.

Janie Jones

Quote from: markburgle on February 01, 2021, 04:47:09 PM
I've had this situation before, happy to say they caved fairly quickly, the cunts were just trying it on. Have you rung them to ask what's happening or are you trying to avoid having to actually speak to them? I'd be surprised if they can be arsed to really go the distance fighting someone who knows the industry.

Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on February 01, 2021, 05:29:34 PM
I suspect they're a lazy bunch of cunts who are just trying it on, and if you actually challenge them and open a case with the TDS to get your money back, they'll fold like a cheap umbrella and hand it over because that's too much effort to fight and for every one of you there are twenty others who are easier to rip off. Cunts.

Sorry you're having to deal with it though. Hope it goes alright.

Yes, try not to worry, Mollusck. I have an acquaintance who is a letting agent, it's their business model to hang onto cash for as long as they can. There's always someone who goes abroad and/or gives up or is rich enough not to be arsed with the hassle. Once they realise you're not one of those people, they'll give you your money back.

Sebastian Cobb

Someone I know got them to drop their spurious claims just by forwarding the receipt from the cleaners they contracted to do an exit clean. Money well spent in their eyes.

flotemysost

Quote from: The Mollusk on February 01, 2021, 04:08:03 PM
trying to tell me we weren't entitled to receive our inventory report because we didn't pay £140 for a "meet and greet service",

The fuck?! Wonder if they're still doing that at the moment... I wouldn't be surprised.

My former flatmate and I had a similar experience recently with the flat we left in November (we likewise moved there in January 2020) - the checkout report contained about twice as many photos as the check-in, and the ones that were "equivalents" were taken from a completely different angle/much closer up than the inventory ones, made all the more laughable by the fact that the flat was WAY cleaner than when we moved in (which we also flagged to them the week we moved in, via a detailed email with photographs etc.)

When they sent over the checkout report, we drew up a detailed Excel spreadsheet documenting every instance of them chatting absolute shit, including an attempt to charge us for "furniture indentation marks on the carpet" in my bedroom (I'm really, truly sorry I don't occupy negative space/I actually used the bed for sleeping in, not as a decorative accessory?).

They eventually relented somewhat, but still lopped about £150 each off what they owed us because the flat "was not cleaned to a professional standard" (despite the fact it very clearly had not been professionally cleaned when we moved in, or if it was they did a shit job, and we'd kept it in far better nick than the state it was in at first).

Not much practical advice to add and it sounds like you're more than familiar with this territory anyway, but to reiterate what others have said don't back down or let them intimidate/patronise you, it's one of the many reasons I truly despair at the private rental sector in this country, and London especially.

DISCLAIMER: I also used to work for a lettings agent and I hate them all, cunts

shiftwork2

In Newcastle I got shafted by a landlady who hadn't been near the flat in 12 months.  There were two items supposedly - a busted mattress (still have no idea what this meant) and knife marks on the bathroom vinyl flooring.  This amounted to the lion's share of my deposit and that money was vital to me.  Her letter was so arsey that I felt compelled to go all out and threaten to get her blacklisted as a rogue landlady by Newcastle Hospitals NHS Trust and Newcastle University.  This was a total bluff (it arrived on her doorstep by Recorded Delivery, which I felt was a nice touch) and it worked like an absolute charm.  She backed down and identified the knife marks as having been done by a contractor she'd used years earlier to put in laminate flooring in the hallway.  Thanks for not spotting that earlier.  And the mattress, well it was fucking fine.  Tried it on and failed.

I have no useful advice I'm afraid except to say that landlords are by definition cunts.

flotemysost

I expect there'll be even more of this than usual, after a year or so of widespread working from home/people spending more time indoors than they normally would - a higher degree of "wear and tear" is inevitable, and I'm sure plenty of people have tried to find little ways of cheering up drab, poky lockdown bedrooms (I mean, Christ forbid!) by putting up posters and pictures and the like.

Ironically that was the one thing I wasn't called up on in the checkout report - I'd put some pins in my bedroom wall last year to hang up a couple of framed prints just so that my magnolia dungeon was slightly less miserable, really piddling little things, nothing a slap of paint (which the disgusting walls badly could have done with anyway) wouldn't hide, but I'm sure others won't be so lucky.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: flotemysost on February 01, 2021, 06:21:37 PM
The fuck?! Wonder if they're still doing that at the moment... I wouldn't be surprised.


After they banned agents' fees several agencies got done for still trying to charge. Chancing pricks.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-33782744

I seem to remember a lot of international students were trying to get their cash back once they realised what happened.


Icehaven

Having currently got the worst letting agent I've ever had to deal with (repeated failure to fix things promptly, failure to follow up complaints, failure to organise basic legally required safety checks then attempt to claim they had and tenants hadn't responded when they'd done no such thing, open contempt for tenants, general shiteness), and been thoroughly shafted and lied to by another in just the last few days (went for a viewing on Friday, no one turned up, rang them and they came out with some bullshit about problems with the keys and assured someone would call me today, no one did, called them and surprise surprise it's gone) then right now I'd happily watch every letting agent in the land and their children burnt to death. Do not give up on getting your money back under any circumstances, every victory against them makes them realise they don't have the upper hand they think they have.

Mango Chimes

Quote from: The Mollusk on February 01, 2021, 04:08:03 PMWe've been out of the property for half a month and we have no idea what's happening with our money. It's held within the Tenancy Deposit Scheme and if we don't hear back from the agent soon, I am tempted to open the dispute with TDS myself. The thing is, I quite rightly feel extremely uneasy about having to be the one to open that door and unleash the hell within, but I'm within my rights to do so, aren't I? It's not just the landlord or the agent that can start the process, right?

If anyone has any advice or support, I'd greatly appreciate it! No matter what happens, I will fight this until my fingers are bloody stumps and my throat is stripped bare, but I need reassurance. It's pretty scary.

Don't be scared of the TDS. Save your fingers and do it. You fill in a form and the rest is between them and the agents. You'll get the undisputed amount back immediately, and the agents will have to decide whether their time to make an argument is worth the remainder and chance of success.

Unless it's changed recently, that's all there is to it. It gets it off your hands and puts the agents up against a dispassionate bureaucracy.

BlodwynPig


Blinder Data

did I misread or is it that the letting agents have not formally said they will deduct all or some of your deposit but have not let you know about your deposit two weeks after you've moved out? I think it's possible they are just lazy wanks and still haven't had a look at your case yet. here's hoping you get all your money back no probs.

unfortunately if they come up with a bullshit excuse to deduct, it's usually just a matter of who blinks first. my not very helpful advice is to try to relax and keep politely pushing them to respond to your query of "where's my money?!". if they try it on, you've done your homework so I have every confidence in them folding

Hand Solo

Quote from: The Mollusk on February 01, 2021, 04:08:03 PM
Knowing that a tenant has 7 days to bring any faults within the report to the attention of the agency, that very night I went through the property and tore the document a new arsehole with swathes of amendment notes and about 666 additional photographs.


Shoulders?-Stomach!

Literally rip off their head and shit down the neck hole

100% guarantee this will work

Twit 2

The abject horror of renting a house.

Icehaven


holyzombiejesus

Have you tried Acorn? Doesn't look like there's a branch near you but I bet they'd give you some decent advice.

Everyone who rents should sign up to these, btw. Acorn fucking rule.

https://www.acorntheunion.org.uk/

There are these people too....

https://londonrentersunion.org/

Icehaven

Quote from: holyzombiejesus on February 01, 2021, 09:53:34 PM
Have you tried Acorn? Doesn't look like there's a branch near you but I bet they'd give you some decent advice.

Everyone who rents should sign up to these, btw. Acorn fucking rule.

https://www.acorntheunion.org.uk/

There are these people too....

https://londonrentersunion.org/

I like the idea of these 'renter's unions' very much, because when you rent it's very hard to know where to turn when you're being fucked over and the feeling that you're on your own and there's no help is instrumental in making you give up a fight. Some kind of proper organisation would make all the difference.

Twit 2

Quote from: icehaven on February 01, 2021, 09:33:13 PM
And not having £30,000 for a deposit.

Indeed. "Have loads of money" or "put up with shit" with little in between is a raw deal.