Author Topic: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin  (Read 4472 times)

Zetetic

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2021, 01:47:46 AM »
no 'wild' coronavirus includes ACE2
The first actual claim in your post appears to be a nonsense.

Assuming it's supposed to be "ACE2-binding" or something like that, it's a lie.

Which doesn't really encourage further engagement.

Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2021, 04:20:15 AM »
Yeah he apologized for that some years ago, and his black friends defended him, as did his black partner. Do you have black friends and a black girlfriend?

It was a fucking joke, albeit bad taste. Maher is no racist and I like him.

Fucking hell. All you get here is identity politics and cancel culture. Hardly any data discussion.

So, the data, was denkst du?

There were more racist quotes from Maher in the video, I know it had two black men presenting it but I promise you won’t become too woke by actually watching it. Does he have muslim friends and a muslim partner who defended his comments about Islam too? That would be useful! Don’t chat shit about identity politics if you think rich black people covering for a rich white man’s racism says anything about whether it was racist or not. Don’t know enough about the covid stuff to comment, but I know Maher is a racist, neoliberal, edgelord cunt.

Mister Six

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2021, 04:42:03 AM »
So what? Ebola was named after the river where it was first found. Ditto many other viruses.

The Chinese government lobbied hard to not have Wuhan in the name, but it should be called the Wuhan virus by usual geographic nomenclature.

The World Health Organization called for an end to naming viruses after place names six years ago.

And Bill Maher is a reactionary centre-right tool.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2021, 08:03:51 AM »
I get the impression you'd love this to be true, Pinball.

Mmm. Definitely a case of prejudice first, then reverse engineering 'research' that appears to prop it up, also coincidentally from people who desperately want it to be true. That's how all the best journalism is conducted.

Bernice

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2021, 08:18:36 AM »
Hi I've crunched the numbers and Bill Maher is a cunt. Sorry if my FACTS offend you, sorry if I'm getting CANCELLED for it.

Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2021, 08:22:21 AM »
I have four black friends, one black enemy and my girlfriend is white.

Can I comment on Bill Maher?

Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2021, 08:48:32 AM »
Whatever.

Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2021, 08:56:08 AM »
The first actual claim in your post appears to be a nonsense.

Assuming it's supposed to be "ACE2-binding" or something like that, it's a lie.

Which doesn't really encourage further engagement.
Ok at last some real discussion, sort of. Obviously I was simplifying. To be more specific:

"unexpectedly high affinity for angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE2), as well as the notable
polybasic furin cleavage site within it".

Interesting review article (fulltext pdf link):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7435492/pdf/BIES-9999-2000091.pdf

Title: "Might SARS-CoV-2 Have Arisen via Serial Passage through an Animal Host or Cell Culture?
A potential explanation for much of the novel coronavirus’ distinctive genome"

Hopefully the Sirotkins haven't said anything in their personal lives to upset the CaB collective. Destroy the messenger. Destroy the messenger.

Bernice

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2021, 09:42:39 AM »
Just what is the threat you think this message poses to the hive mind?

sirhenry

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2021, 10:06:21 AM »
Interesting review article (fulltext pdf link):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7435492/pdf/BIES-9999-2000091.pdf

Title: "Might SARS-CoV-2 Have Arisen via Serial Passage through an Animal Host or Cell Culture?
A potential explanation for much of the novel coronavirus’ distinctive genome"
So because there is a possibility that SARS arose through human experimentation, Covid 19 may also have been. Has that not always been acknowledged to be the case, but without any evidence no scientists are actually claiming it to be the cause?

Not that this disproves your point, but it doesn't seem to add anything to it either.

Zetetic

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2021, 11:00:43 AM »
Obviously I was simplifying.
That's not obvious at all. The only way it might be obvious - and I'm being extremely generous here - is if you knew it was, as written, a lie.

The virus may or may not be the result of experimentation. It may or may not have characteristics that suggest this.

I think that judging this probably requires a familiarity with the field that I do not possess. More than that, I don't even have the knowledge required to begin to judge other people's expertise in the field. It seems extremely easy to find reasonably well-written arguments either way, that would be equally convincing to me, if I wanted to be convinced.

Given that you're unable to make it more than two sentences into your opening post without making a trivially disprovable claim, you might want to consider your own abilities to make sound judgements in this area.


MojoJojo

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2021, 11:08:20 AM »

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7435492/pdf/BIES-9999-2000091.pdf


I've had a quick look through.

First up - it's an article dressed up to look like scientific paper, which immediately sets off alarm bells.

I've done the basic thing of looking at some of their claims, and following citations to see if they back up what's said.

Quote
In fact, no influenza virus with a furin cleavage site has ever been found in nature,[3]

The only mention of furin in the cited article
Quote
. In contrast, the HA0 cleavage sites of H5 and H7 HPAI
viruses are a multi-basic stretch of amino acids, which can be recognized by ubiquitous host enzymes,such asfurin and PC6, allowing systemic infection (79).
To be fair, I've not read the whole article, maybe it somehow backs up their claim.  However it's a misleading statement - the furin cleavage is a focus of research as it is a frequent mutation found in influenza viruses that have jumped to humans, and has developed in poultry farms (which aren't natural, but also aren't virus research labs) several times.


Quote
The dual-use gain-of-function research tool of serial passage was first applied to a strain of H1N1 Swine Flu, a variant of the pandemic influenza virus that was genetically modified before it either leaked out of a Soviet lab or was introduced as part of an attenuated vaccine trial in 1977. Although no one has ever taken responsibility for the introduction of this virus, it would become the first known example of a virus created by serial passage leaving a lab, which was later determined due to its inexplicable genetic distance from any known sister strain.[8] This extra distance would be expected since serial passages artificially accelerates genetic divergence between taxa, resulting in the accumulation of genetic distance at a much faster rate than it occurs in a natural setting
Reading the article this is just wrong. The belief that H1N1 is somehow human related is because it closely related to a 1950's strain. From the paper cited:
Quote
We found that the 1977 cluster has the closest degree of genetic similarity to strains isolated in Albany, NY, in 1948 and 1950, strains isolated in Rome, Italy, in 1949, and strains isolated in Fort Leonard Wood, MO, in 1951, instead of the FW 1950 strain examined previously (Fig. 1). These strains are 98.4% identical (Table 2), containing only four differences among the 566 amino acids that make up the protein, evidence that the 1977 H1N1 epidemic strain is derived from a 1950s virus.

The original article linked doesn't actually disagree with the popular view:
Quote
Taken together, the available evidence does not point definitively toward a natural origin for SARS-CoV-2, rather, much of it is more consistent with what would be found if the novel coronavirus had arisen from serial passage of a “precursor” progenitor virus in a lab, or from bats infecting a commercial mink farm somewhere in China, which would also provide the conditions for serial passage.

Reading the article, they focus a lot on "serial passage" and "gain of function" research, and reading around this is a political topic in virus research, with the US imposing a ban at some point and stuff. So the article is really a shot fired in that debate.


Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2021, 02:56:22 PM »
wot ‘e sed

Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2021, 03:33:54 PM »
Read the thread title and thought 'no it's not'.

Sorry if that OFFENDS YOU SNOWFLAKE

Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2021, 03:57:27 PM »
168: Furin cleavage wank

Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2021, 04:00:08 PM »
Are you allowed to say the Chinese are dodgy as fuck? Just checking first.

thenoise

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2021, 04:57:41 PM »
Can you summarise? My boy's having a shit.

Johnny Yesno

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2021, 04:58:33 PM »
Interesting article, and scientific not politicized

lol lock the thread

thenoise

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2021, 05:09:34 PM »
I think your made in a lab lol.

Johnny Yesno

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2021, 05:46:45 PM »
rumbled lol

Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2021, 07:40:52 PM »

Bill Maher is a right-wing racist.

Now that is a scientific fact — there's no real evidence for it — but it is a scientific fact.

bgmnts

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2021, 09:13:41 PM »
Was this virus manufactured just to get Captain Tom out of the picture and destroy this country?

PlanktonSideburns

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2021, 09:17:20 PM »
has anyone done a

The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a CAB Origin

Post over in the H.S? (thats right, im calling it The HS now)

also this thread is pathetic

Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2021, 10:55:36 PM »
Literally every virologist says there's no evidence that it's engineered, but a dot org website along with Aunt Sadie on FaceBook says it's true. Who to trust?

Johnny Yesno

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #54 on: February 03, 2021, 09:01:28 AM »


Cuellar

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #56 on: February 03, 2021, 10:55:03 AM »
Alternative headline: WHO team sees data no one has seen before and does not rule out coronavirus began on a farm

Quote
"We're all aware of the hypotheses around the potential involvement of the lab in this and we're certainly going to ask questions about all of the key aspects of the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

"If there are data that point towards any hypothesis, we'll follow the data, we'll follow the evidence where it leads us. If it leads us to a seafood market and a cold chain, we'll follow it there.

"If it leads us to a wildlife farm or a wildlife market we'll go there. If it leads us to a lab we'll go there. Everything's on the table and we're keeping an open mind."

Johnny Yesno

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #57 on: February 03, 2021, 10:59:46 AM »
WHO team sees data no one has seen before and does not rule out coronavirus began in your mum

Captain Z

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #58 on: February 03, 2021, 11:37:53 AM »
Air crash investigators do not rule out that plane was spat out of the sky by giant sea monster.

Johnny Yesno

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Re: The Case Is Building That COVID-19 Had a Lab Origin
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2021, 07:03:58 PM »
WHO team does not rule out making up their own rules and then ruling them out.

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