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March 29, 2024, 08:26:58 AM

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Cryptocurrency Thread

Started by QDRPHNC, February 04, 2021, 12:17:46 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

oy vey

Is anyone looking at Helium Network? Buy a router/hotspot and make passive income by earning HNT. It helps if someone else has another hotspot within 2km. I ordered a hotspot. My area has 2 other fruitcakes so if I can get a decent ariel high enough it could be quite a nice earner.

seepage

I thought there was already at least one daft currency that relied on disk space but now there's 'Chia', apparently set to cause a shortage of SSDs & HDDs, on top of GPUs.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: drummersaredeaf on April 19, 2021, 06:11:40 PM
I'm reliably* informed that Doge is going to the moon tomorrow with it being a meme and all that. Should I lump on, or am I better just bagging a load of pound coins and donating them to a canal?

I wouldn't hop in right now, as it's bound to do another dip. But it wouldn't surprise me if it was holding the line somewhere above .40 by tomorrow.[nb]As it likely would anyway, I doubt 4/20's really going to make much of a difference either way. All the stoners yelling about that are already in.[/nb]

If you can get in at .35-.37 or thereabouts, it might be a good short-term play. Of course, it could just fucking plummet. That's bound to happen sooner or later, I'd have thought.

Video Game Fan 2000

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 19, 2021, 06:13:04 PM
https://neatcoin.org/

Fellas.

Lock KLP -> KLP goes up in price -> You get Neatcoin for locking -> You get all the KLP back.

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on April 19, 2021, 08:02:42 PM
I wouldn't hop in right now, as it's bound to do another dip. But it wouldn't surprise me if it was holding the line somewhere above .40 by tomorrow.[nb]As it likely would anyway, I doubt 4/20's really going to make much of a difference either way. All the stoners yelling about that are already in.[/nb]

If you can get in at .35-.37 or thereabouts, it might be a good short-term play. Of course, it could just fucking plummet. That's bound to happen sooner or later, I'd have thought.

I was hoping for some tweets about the moon from... Daddy Musk. This isn't Game Stop II then?

There's a lot of eyes on $DOGE right now 'cos 4/20, if you've got the time/inclination it's worth keeping an eye on - if it breaks 0.45 and picks up momentum then it maybe worth hopping on for the ride for a short timeframe trade if you get in quick enough.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: drummersaredeaf on April 19, 2021, 10:17:55 PM
I was hoping for some tweets about the moon from... Daddy Musk. This isn't Game Stop II then?

It's up about 500% in the past week or so, so it's pretty close. I doubt we'll see another 500% rise anytime soon, but I'd say you could expect maybe 10-20% in the next couple of days.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Speaking of Gamestop, what's the play now. It's slowly lagging again but at €164 the short squeeze is still on, surely? So are the affected hedgefunds just hoping it all fizzles out if they leave it 2 or 3 years?

Pinball

If only we had spare global energy capacity, say all of it, for cryptoclimomeltdown. Burn the world. I want my 2p profit.

Video Game Fan 2000

Average people monkeying around with alternatives to PoW are one of the few viable alternatives to bitcoin. Its here to stay. I feel more ethical qualms with using Bitcoin as a payment service (paying exorbitant fees to the network, driving demand for miners) than anyone who isn't stonkingly rich should feel about making a few from crypto.

As asinine as the speculation market is its still preferable to Bitcoin and Ethereum moving slowly forwards like the Nick Land wank fantasies they are.

Zetetic

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 19, 2021, 11:37:12 PM
As asinine as the speculation market is its still preferable to Bitcoin and Ethereum moving slowly forwards like the Nick Land wank fantasies they are.
It's not really an either-or situation, unfortunately.

Video Game Fan 2000

Not really. Open source and fair(er) distribution can win out, and crypto is unique in its ability to generate communities and participation. While most of those communities are "to the moon" or "lambo" stuff, a fair chunk are sincere about what they're doing. Someone of the alternatives out there do work and are vastly, vastly more fair than bitcoin and ethereum.

What's worrying is that its only really now, when the inevitability of crypto on the economic landscape is assured and rich people are pulling in billions, we're being told that it's a matter of personal responsibility and personal ethics on the part of the consumer. What a bunch of shit. Just like with environmentalism and media ethics before it. Maybe its different if you're a small business taking payments in bitcoin so encouraging fee expenditure and traffic - but even then... its like being mad people have cars and buy sandwiches in plastic boxes in order to work, as if its individual behaviour that drives everything.

You can't do anything about Elon and VISA pumping millions through inefficient and energy hungry PoW chains, but be sure to snipe at your friends for making £250 off shitcoins.

Zetetic

The speculation market isn't doing anything to undermine the extent to which Bitcoin and Ethereum are soaking up resources (and embedding themselves in other projects) though, which is the point.

Which is why it's not an either-or situation.

Video Game Fan 2000

Quote from: Zetetic on April 20, 2021, 05:02:35 PM
The speculation market isn't doing anything to undermine the extent to which Bitcoin and Ethereum are soaking up resources though, which is the point.

Just not true.

https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/CRYPTOCAP-BTC.D/

When energy hungry coins lose dominance, a lot of that value flows towards coins that don't use nearly as much energy to main their value. While its true overall that Ethereum and Bitcoin have steadily increased their energy consumption, whenever their dominance slips a lot of that value is taken up by other coins a lot of which are not PoW or just tokens on other chains.

If money goes from Bitcoin -> a chain that doesn't use PoW, that doesn't mean that Bitcoin is soaking up the resources that give that other chain its value because you buy it with bitcoin. What could (but probably won't) happen is that non-PoW chains over take proof of work and ethereum tokens, and ultimately make the valuation less dependent on inefficient hashing and more on diversity and time based systems.


Zetetic

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 20, 2021, 05:05:35 PM
its true overall that Ethereum and Bitcoin have steadily increased their energy consumption
Yes.

Video Game Fan 2000

Quote from: Zetetic on April 20, 2021, 05:07:45 PM
Yes.

Match the dips in the dominance chart to the dips in the energy consumption chart. They tail each other.

Video Game Fan 2000

Also I don't like the implication that when Ethereum finally goes PoS it'll be environmentally and economically unproblematic. This is clearly untrue.

Zetetic

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 20, 2021, 05:05:35 PM
While its true overall that Ethereum and Bitcoin have steadily increased their energy consumption, whenever their dominance slips a lot of that value is taken up by other coins a lot of which are not PoW or just tokens on other chains.
The mistake is identifying short-term fluctuations in the demand for transactions or mining from specific instances of speculation, with the overall effect of speculation on that demand.

Regardless, this is irrelevant - speculation hasn't proved to be an alternative to the ongoing growth (of energy demand or however else you wish to look at it) of Bitcoin and Ethereum. Even if you think the former is undermining the latter, it's still clearly not excluding it.

Which is why I said it's not an either-or situation.

Video Game Fan 2000

Quote from: Zetetic on April 20, 2021, 05:12:04 PM
The mistake is identifying short-term fluctuations in the demand for transactions or mining from specific instances of speculation, with the overall effect of speculation on that demand.

Dominance isn't demand for transactions and mining from speculation.  Its the % of the collective market cap taken up by bitcoin. If anything, speculative value is notorious seperate from number of transactions and the amount of fees being paid. The meme is HODL not SPEDN. 

The mistake you're (and some articles about this) are making is the idea that when another chain is given value from speculation done via bitcoin, it is still bitcoin mining that is giving that chain its value. In 2015-2016 economists were saying this about the 2013-2014 and it turned out to be untrue, because Ethereum took a permanent chunk out of Bitcoin and has been autonomous from Bitcoin mining for years.

If hypothetically there was a Doge-style bubble that pushed a non-PoW or PoS coin to the top five, it would impact Bitcoin's dominance pretty much permanently and % of the total value of cryptocurrency would no longer come from burning energy. This is highly unlikely, but other than that the only thing that could stop Bitcoin or Ethereum continuing is a ban in the US or China, which clearly ain't happening.

Zetetic

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 20, 2021, 05:18:47 PM
The mistake you're (and some articles about this) are making is the idea that when another chain is given value from speculation done via bitcoin, it is still bitcoin mining that is giving that chain its value.
No, I don't care about that.

Video Game Fan 2000

You do realise that its only PoW and some PoS that use such enormous amounts of energy, right? You should care. There are literally dozens of alternatives and the reason they're not used is because money is already behind Bitcoin and Ethereum.

Zetetic

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 20, 2021, 05:18:47 PM
If hypothetically
And – speaking of reality - has this happened? Or so far has speculation and Bitcoin's growth co-existed?

Zetetic

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 20, 2021, 05:21:45 PM
You do realise that its only PoW and some PoS that use such enormous amounts of energy, right?
Yes, I've discussed this elsewhere on CaB. It's irrelevant to the fact that speculation elsewhere hasn't proved the alternative to Ethereum and Bitcoin's continued survival and growth.

Video Game Fan 2000

Quote from: Zetetic on April 20, 2021, 05:21:51 PM
And – speaking of reality - has this happened?

Several low energy and non-PoW coins have made it up the charts on Coinmarketcap, yes. And this has impacted Bitcoin's dominance. Some have stayed there. There are probably hundreds more in active development.

They have taken some of the overall capitalisation and maintained it over a period of years, influencing how valuable it is to mine bitcoin and therefore lessening the block difficulty and hashrate.

Zetetic

The honest answer is "No", unfortunately.

Video Game Fan 2000


Zetetic

Oh, okay, Bitcoin's growth hasn't continued, you're right.

Video Game Fan 2000

Don't be shirty just because you're wrong. The fact that Bitcoin's overall consumption has increased on an annual basis doesn't mean that speculation on other chains hasn't impacted the relative dominance of Bitcoin over the entire field.

People use bitcoin to buy non-PoW tokens -> that chain's market cap goes up -> Bitcoin's dominance goes down -> miner competition for Bitcoin decreases -> Bitcoin block difficulty drops -> amount of energy taken to mine decreases

If a really, really popular token does that enough, it would be enough to stop Bitcoin's annual increase in consumption.

Zetetic

And, importantly, this - here and now, in reality - ended the growth of Bitcoin and Ethereum.

Not, on a sufficiently narrow view, slowed it, but ended it. Not "we can imagine a scenario that might end it"[nb]I mean the scenario of "something less terrible replaces Bitcoin" seems fairly inevitable but that seems a different discussion.[/nb], but has ended it.

That's very good.

Zetetic

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on April 20, 2021, 05:30:18 PM
Don't be shirty just because you're wrong.
How can I be shirty by saying that you're right?

Quoteit would be enough to stop Bitcoin's annual increase in consumption
😬