Cryptocurrency Thread

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Hey guys some new info apparently stocks and currencies can go up as well as down, some sharply. As this is new info this should inform your future decisions, cheers

[oy vey]

Finance and economic structures do have cycles, but technology tends to become more complex, useful and efficient over time. And if that technology is solving problems in a way that the likes of Microsoft, PayPal, Visa... the list goes on... are buying into it in various ways, I just don't buy "it's a fad". Makes absolutely no sense. Why would a futures market be created around BTC and now ETH? Why would the SEC back off? Why are corps and governments starting to use the Ethereum blockchain? Why is the likes of JP Morgan changing their tune?

[Gurke and Hare]

DOGE alone has a bigger market cap than Nintendo, General Motors and BP.

And if that doesn't tell you it's a ridiculous bubble, nothing does. Please explain to me what sustains the value of DOGE in the way that the massive and showing no sign of falling public demand for video games, cars and petroleum sustains the value of the companies you listed.

[Zetetic]

I'm not entirely sure under what circumstances it makes sense to compare the "market cap" of a currency and a company (or any other kind of  nominally productive capital).

[Uncle TechTip]

When you're a shill trying to maintain a ponzi scheme.

It's such a crude measurement - sure that's the total value of all the coins in existence, but what would happen to that price if everyone started to cash out?

[Better Midlands]

It's such a crude measurement - sure that's the total value of all the coins in existence, but what would happen to that price if everyone started to cash out?

It would drop off the cliff, the measurement does show the scale of the money invested though.

[oy vey]

Metcalf's law is a big influence, along with token utilities, token economics, use cases of technologies and several other factors depending on the project.

[itsfredtitmus]

when the gcp dot hits green buy coin

[peanutbutter]

cashed out on ETH and ADA yesterday anticipating a crash, looks like I may have fucked up wrt to ADA (not  sure it'll drop back much below where I sold at at this stage) but sold most the ETH near the peak so there's still hope it'll crash yet.

[BRen]

Dipped my foot into the Crypto world and picked up £25 Doge. Though I may try and pick up some BTC, ETH and BNB as someone mentioned on the previous page, split £100 between them and forget about them for a year or two.

[MojoJojo]

It would drop off the cliff, the measurement does show the scale of the money invested though.

It doesn't even do that very well. Just because 1 person was willing to buy at £3000, doesn't mean anyone else will. It doesn't express the depth of demand.

It's also a bit worrying when people use investment terminology in completely inappropriate ways.

I just don't buy "it's a fad". Makes absolutely no sense. Why would a futures market be created around BTC and now ETH? Why would the SEC back off? Why are corps and governments starting to use the Ethereum blockchain? Why is the likes of JP Morgan changing their tune?

That's all well and good, but somewhat besides the point. Bitcoin might not be a fad, but that doesn't mean it's current price is justified or that it isn't a bubble.

[Noodle Lizard]

It's all speculative at this point, as with many normal stocks, but there's not much to suggest the future isn't looking more or less "quite good". I certainly don't think investing in Bitcoin or Ethereum (or even taking reasonable gambles on things like DOGE) is a stupid thing to do at this point. Most people who invested at the beginning of the year (or even a month or two ago) have more than likely taken out their initial investment twice over. If you're able to do that, that negates the risk somewhat. It's obviously unwise to stake anything more than you'd be comfortable disappearing, but the same goes for any investment.

Anyway, no harm in getting excited about it while it's all looking good. It's been life-changing for a lot of people.

[oy vey]

Doge is too rich for my blood but you're right, it's speculative in the same way you couldn't know google would overtake yahoo way back when.

On the fad thing, I don't argue there are bubbles as with all investments. But it ain't a fad. That's a different argument, and indeed the one I was answering. Totally agree there are bubbles here as with tech, housing, etc.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I was going to make a similar point. Some bubbles appear to have less stigma just because they are deeply institutional, whereas those are probably the most irresponsible of the lot.

[Noodle Lizard]

Right. If you'd gone all-in on "sensible tech picks" a month or two ago, you'd be bleeding pretty horribly right now. I remember getting some Apple at "an unbelievable discount!" around $130. And then watching it go down to $114. It's still below $130, months later.

Crypto's obviously having a boom. No one knows quite how long it'll last, but there's nothing wrong with jumping in on it while it's happening.

[DocDaneeka]

Apart from the terrible environmental cost.

[Noodle Lizard]

Apart from the terrible environmental cost.

I think the jury's still very much out on that, long-term. Compared to other things we all do every day, anyway.

[Zetetic]

I assume DocDaneeka was talking about the energy consumption here-and-now, rather than when we're all dead.

(I think we've done to death in these threads that Bitcoin is astonishingly bad with respect to this, and it's not a fundamental feature of cryptocurrency, but also that Bitcoin remains prominent.)

[Noodle Lizard]

Yeah sorry about that knee-jerk response. I'm not about to speak with any kind of authority on that side of things, I really don't know enough about it.

[Vitamin C]

Right. If you'd gone all-in on "sensible tech picks" a month or two ago, you'd be bleeding pretty horribly right now. I remember getting some Apple at "an unbelievable discount!" around $130. And then watching it go down to $114. It's still below $130, months later.

Just buy that shit and sit on it forever. You'll make money. It's not the instant rollercoaster of crypto, so I can understand why it might not appeal if you're deep into that. But Apple isn't going anywhere and the price is low. This is the point where you buy it.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Nah if I did that it would emerge tomorrow that Apple were the biggest cabal of paedophiles in human history.

(And yet despite the misanthropy I have actually made money so far, so stick that Derren.)

[PlanktonSideburns]

Just been reading this, ooks quite interesting on the topic, of electric and Crypto,

https://www.coincenter.org/estimating-bitcoin-electricity-use-a-beginners-guide/

[MojoJojo]

Crypto's obviously having a boom. No one knows quite how long it'll last, but there's nothing wrong with jumping in on it while it's happening.

Except it's a zero sum game. If you make money, it's because someone else loses money. And you're fooling yourself if you think it's faceless investment companies that will lose out.

[oy vey]

Except it's a zero sum game. If you make money, it's because someone else loses money. And you're fooling yourself if you think it's faceless investment companies that will lose out.

Faceless investment companies are buying in and I'm glad because it's win-win, i.e. non-zero. Developing complex tech on the back of a decentralised model that has resolved digital scarcity - that's hardly the same as trading derivatives and options. The issue of how to resolve digital double-spend has now been resolved. It has value (by definition).

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Missed out on a big rise with EOS. Still made a few quid earlier on but further proof to just hodl and wait.

[Paul Calf]

Faceless investment companies are buying in and I'm glad because it's win-win, i.e. non-zero. Developing complex tech on the back of a decentralised model that has resolved digital scarcity - that's hardly the same as trading derivatives and options. The issue of how to resolve digital double-spend has now been resolved. It has value (by definition).

Could you explain what you mean by 'resolved digital scarcity'?

[MojoJojo]

I haven't responded to that post cos I think he's taking the piss.

[Paul Calf]

That's the thing with crypto: it's very hard to tell whether someone's bullshitting, joking or has actually swallowed the kool-aid.

[oy vey]

Could you explain what you mean by 'resolved digital scarcity'?

Sure. One of the biggest issues on the Internet was always the fact that anything digitally stored can be copied multiple times. An Mp3, for example.  So if I send you an Mp3, I can't be sure that there will only ever be one copy from then on. This was always the problem that plagued online financial solutions that tried to make a form of "e-money". I send you an e-coin. You could use that coin over and over and there's no way to control its supply or uniqueness. It's known as the "double spend" problem. The only way to resolve it is by a corporation "handling" everything.

Blockchain solved that problem. Now you can have unique digital assets that are protected from being copied, or at least can be protected by a unique key that cannot be hacked. So the double spend problem is resolved without the need for a corporation. All you need is cryptography and a decentralized model that can't easily be hacked (if coded well). You can argue that there are centralized groups of people (foundations) in charge of the code, but if the code is open-source, is it really shady? Hardly. What Satoshi developed was quite remarkable. At least I think so, but I took the time to read his Bitcoin whitepaper. In 12 years the code has been available to all and it hasn't been hacked. What I'm trying to say, is that this technology has value. You can now program money, in a sense. You have the concept of "smart" contracts, decentralised organisations, e-voting that you can trust, non-fungible tokens, etc.

What in the name of fuck has kool-aid got to do with anything?

[MojoJojo]

Ok, this was what I was trying to point out earlier. Yes bitcoin has created digital scarcity, and that's cool and valuable. Companies can use that to create services that create value, it's all good.

None of which has any bearing on investing in bitcoin or the value of bitcoin. The relationship probably goes the other way - if people stopped speculating on bitcoin the price would stabilise which would enable more services and value to be created. Speculating on the price of bitcoin is a zero sum game. The only money that goes into it comes from other speculators. To make money out of it other people have to lose money.