Topic: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight

[Mobbd]

It's been a long time coming (Cumming?) and it's on Sky Arts at 9pm tonight.

There's been some talk in the Adam Buxton Podcast thread[1] about how to watch it. Sky Arts doesn't work on some people's laptops (including my famously stupid Chromebook) and Stew's newsletter suggests it won't make the usual leap onto NowTV.

If any CABber can do something clever to record it or rip it or otherwise preserve it, that would [fu]king rock, er, quite a bit.

1.	because Stew plugged the film on the podcast the other day, delightfully too!

[studpuppet]

Buckles was moaning that there wasn't enough music in it (including this), so here's the Vindaloo Summer Special to keep you going in the meantime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-ZLGY5MrtE

[icehaven]

Looking forward to this, I was briefly in a band with their current guitarist Jim just before he joined them, and another band I was in supported them a few times years ago. Nice to see them getting a doc, and from Stew Lee no less.

[markburgle]

Well it's too bloody late now but I managed to watch it live on Now TV. Our freeview reception is incredibly shit so I got home at 20:52, signed up for a free trial, downloaded the app, and goolgled how to stream Sky Arts live all in a thrilling 8 minute period, cracking the wine open just as the continuity announcer finished her bit.

I enjoyed it, the statue made for an unusual but fitting throughline, and the dynamic between Slee and Rlloyd was really entertaining with some laugh-out-loud bits. I'm probably getting to the band themselves a bit too late, I'd have loved them as a teenager, his lyrics are great. His attempt at commercial solo stuff was surprisingly convincing, I might feel more inclined to check that out than the Nightingales themselves, guess I'm a boring old bastard now.

The 2nd half seemed to flag a bit, especially the "and now everything is fine" section, but I have a shit attention span so I would say that.

[Beagle 2]

I thought it was great. I knew nothing about them, I wouldn't say I got a great introduction to them musically beyond the fact his lyrics are obviously amazing and they frequently sound reminiscent of The Fall so I will definitely be investigating further! Some really lovely moments in it, and the Nigel Slater bit was unexpected and hilarious.

[another Mr. Lizard]

Big Nightingales fan here, ever since buying 'Idiot Strength' forty years ago - but this doc contained a few surprises even for long-term followers. And I suspect it will be a good watch for newcomers. Loved seeing Putner and Eldon on good form during the script read-through, and the running gag of Stew setting up obvious visual metaphors and Robert dourly shooting them down worked very well. Even as a devotee, the solo/almost commercial period is something I largely overlooked (the release I have from that era is the Robert Lloyd & The New Four Seasons' 'Something Nice' 12" - had no idea that there was an unissued album). The Kong material was laced in beautifully

[non capisco]

Enjoyed that a lot. Loved everything about the King Kong statue which Stew has obviously been obsessed with for years.

Highlight :- The question "Was that tap here then?" and the conversation that came after it.

That last Nightingales tune over the end credits with the monologue that Samira Ahmed mimed to is cracking.

[markburgle]

The stone circle was my favourite bit, Lloyd dismissing it as "arrogant" and Lee trying and failing to make his case for it. Such a brilliantly deflating reaction

[mjwilson]

It's on NowTV for catch up in the normal way for the next 4 weeks or so.

[sweeper]

Approx 3 minutes in, Stew Lee, dressed as Brusher Mills the New Forest snake catcher, says:

‘Our society rewards mediocrity and ignores genius.’

So I switched it off.

[Mobbd]

It's on NowTV for catch up in the normal way for the next 4 weeks or so.

Sorted!! Thanks.

[Wet Blanket]

Approx 3 minutes in, Stew Lee, dressed as Brusher Mills the New Forest snake catcher, says:

‘Our society rewards mediocrity and ignores genius.’

So I switched it off.

I thought it was an entertaining documentary and the guy seemed like a personable eccentric but I didn’t come away convinced he was a lost genius, in the way I definitely came away from the Being Frank documentary convinced that his fellow pop star near miss Chris Sievey was

[pigamus]

I'm hoping this might appear in a certain place, it's been requested

[trabuch]

I like to see Stewart Lee so happy. Good film.

[sweeper]

the Being Frank documentary

Yes, this certainly wants to be that, but as far as I can tell the Nightingales are this band who aren’t in any way interesting. Does it have anything to offer other than a portrayal of dogged endeavour? He doesn’t appear to be eccentric or gifted in any particular way.

[Virgo76]

I thought it was an entertaining documentary and the guy seemed like a personable eccentric but I didn’t come away convinced he was a lost genius, in the way I definitely came away from the Being Frank documentary convinced that his fellow pop star near miss Chris Sievey was

I thought both this and Being Frank were excellent. I didn't come away feeling either were about great lost talents though whatever other qualities their subjects may have had.

[Mobbd]

Yes, this certainly wants to be that, but as far as I can tell the Nightingales are this band who aren’t in any way interesting. Does it have anything to offer other than a portrayal of dogged endeavour? He doesn’t appear to be eccentric or gifted in any particular way.

He is a fairly unique lyricist and his records are really pretty great. I've seen the Nightingales live twice and found Lloyd and Fliss to be extremely entertaining performers. I'm not an expert on drumming, but I think Fliss is really great in that.

I think Stew is doing a good job of righting wrongs in terms of stopping good native culture from being inadequately documented. Not just in this documentary, but with things like getting that Ted Chippington CD box set made and writing intros for otherwise relatively unmarketable books (Ben Moor's More Trees to Climb and Ithell Colquhoun's The Living Stones).

He mentioned on the Adam Buxton Podcast that he's embarrassed to have been successful when the real auteurs of stand-up like Munnery are left in relative obscurity. I guess using his platform to shine a light on these things helps salve this feeling for himself but, above that, it's just the right thing to do. Successful cunts don't generally express this kind of gratitude or help others up, do they? So good for Stew. And the world is richer as a result of it; we wouldn't know about half of this great stuff.

[Virgo76]

Kevin Eldon great as ever in a brief appearance in this.
Seann Walsh..oh yes. Had forgotten he ever existed. A rising comedy star in 2018. Until...

[sweeper]

I think Stew is doing a good job of righting wrongs in terms of stopping good native culture from being inadequately documented. Not just in this documentary, but with things like getting that Ted Chippington CD box set made and writing intros for otherwise relatively unmarketable books (Ben Moor's More Trees to Climb and Ithell Colquhoun's The Living Stones).

I know that's what he thinks he's doing, and fine, whatever. I think most of it is semi-interesting, semi-worthless, badly rendered, fringe interest nonsense for the most part, but I if he's passionate about all this drizzly, beans-on-toast John Peel stuff then it's cool that he puts his weight behind it. Willful obscurists and weirdos should be encouraged.

What bothers me intensely is his snobbish, high-handed way of doing it, as in that line from the film I quoted above. As if there's something inherently noble and good about all this marginal shit, and that its peripheral status is down to its outlaw nature and uncommon adherence to the truth, that a mainstream dullard would never be able to cope with.

It's all so ... studenty. And wrong - mainstream culture is and has always been full of great, interesting, forward-looking stuff, as well as crap. Most people pick and choose from both camps.

[Mobbd]

It's all so ... studenty. And wrong - mainstream culture is and has always been full of great, interesting, forward-looking stuff, as well as crap. Most people pick and choose from both camps.

I'm sure he does too (he described Bohemian Rhapsody as a pop masterpiece on Adam Buxton this week) but the mainstream things don't need defending or talking about and documenting even more.

I'm probably a snob I'm a bit embarrassed about that, but most mainstream culture just looks like this to me:

[sweeper]

I'm probably a snob I'm a bit embarrassed about that, but most mainstream culture just looks like this to me:

If that's genuinely what you think then you should be embarrassed.

I mean, there's a seemingly never ending torrent of mid-range obscurist men-with-guitars-who-sing-like-David-Gedge fare in need of an audience, so you're set for life, and need never trouble about anything. Just don't try to convince me it's inherently superior.

[OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead]

He is a fairly unique lyricist and his records are really pretty great. I've seen the Nightingales live twice and found Lloyd and Fliss to be extremely entertaining performers. I'm not an expert on drumming, but I think Fliss is really great in that.

She was great with Pram, not I'd imagine would be an easy gig for the average trad rock drummer.

I don't know to be honest, not a drummer.

[Mobbd]

If that's genuinely what you think then you should be embarrassed.

I mean, there's a seemingly never ending torrent of mid-range obscurist men-with-guitars-who-sing-like-David-Gedge fare in need of an audience, so you're set for life, and need never trouble about anything. Just don't try to convince me it's inherently superior.

Alright, fair enough. I suppose it depends on the criteria. Top-drawer production value is a thing of the mainstream and that's hard to argue with. And I'm not saying that everyone in the mainstream is untalented because that's not true either. But ploughing your own furrow, experimenting, seeking originality, cutting a new neuron in the cosmic brain... it's not "better" but it's more interesting. To me anyway. And even when it doesn't work (or especially when it doesn't work) that "interestingness" is preferable to "polishedness".

[Wayman C. McCreery]

Approx 3 minutes in, Stew Lee, dressed as Brusher Mills the New Forest snake catcher, says:

‘Our society rewards mediocrity and ignores genius.’

So I switched it off.

I don’t know if you’re joking about switching it off but this theme, and the way Stew tried to tell the story, was torpedoed by Robert throughout the film.

I adored it. I’d never heard The Nightingales before. I suspect I won’t bother with them again after I give Stew’s Spotify playlist a listen. Their story isn’t particularly remarkable. But it taught me more about the industry and what punk means than any other music documentary I’ve seen.

[sweeper]

Alright, fair enough. I suppose it depends on the criteria. Top-drawer production value is a thing of the mainstream and that's hard to argue with. And I'm not saying that everyone in the mainstream is untalented because that's not true either. But ploughing your own furrow, experimenting, seeking originality, cutting a new neuron in the cosmic brain... it's not "better" but it's more interesting. To me anyway. And even when it doesn't work (or especially when it doesn't work) that "interestingness" is preferable to "polishedness".

100% agree. But what about someone like Kendrick Lamar, or Michaela Coel, off the top of my head? Both experimental, both uncompromising, neither polished, yet lauded and awarded to the hilt. In music, I struggle to think of anything as exciting as what Kendrick has done in the last ten years.

[sweeper]

I don’t know if you’re joking about switching it off but this theme, and the way Stew tried to tell the story, was torpedoed by Robert throughout the film.

Genuinely switched it off, so I didn't know that,

Is it a good thing to do? I mean, what's the point in that?

[Chriddof]

If that's genuinely what you think then you should be embarrassed.

I mean, there's a seemingly never ending torrent of mid-range obscurist men-with-guitars-who-sing-like-David-Gedge fare in need of an audience, so you're set for life, and need never trouble about anything. Just don't try to convince me it's inherently superior.

This idea of obscure music from the 80s (and the modern stuff inspired by it) being nothing but "men-with-guitars-who-sing-like-David-Gedge" is weird and wrong. Fucking get this down you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EdA1aWwyVs

(I've not seen the doc yet)

[FerriswheelBueller]

I'm hoping this might appear in a certain place, it's been requested

It might even be UKTVland on reddit already, who can say?

[Beep Cleep Chimney]

Thoroughly enjoyed the documentary.  Was completely unaware of The Nightingales but have been giving them a listen today as a huge chunk of their stuff (and the Robert Lloyd solo album 'Me And My Mouth') is on Spotify.

That solo album is right up my street.  A great pop album.  A bit XTC-ish in places. 

[sweeper]

This idea of obscure music from the 80s (and the modern stuff inspired by it) being nothing but "men-with-guitars-who-sing-like-David-Gedge" is weird and wrong. Fucking get this down you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EdA1aWwyVs

(I've not seen the doc yet)

It may surprise you to learn that I've had this conversation before, or variations on the theme, and this always happens. I'm so humbled and impressed by this kind of thing. Wow, it's so extreme, etc.

So the point is, obscure music has two settings: grey, sarcastic man songs, or grotesque, corrosive, incoherent bursts of noise and aggression, which I expect I'm supposed to understand is the 'arty' stuff. Both as glum and uninspiring as the other.

I tell you who I like out of this sort of thing: The Go-Betweens. And the documentary on them was still a bit boring, to be honest.