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March 28, 2024, 10:08:24 PM

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Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight

Started by Mobbd, February 06, 2021, 05:30:05 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

another Mr. Lizard

Quote from: Egyptian Feast on February 11, 2021, 10:26:13 AM
What would be the best album to start with for a n00b?

Jockice is right, start with Pigs on Purpose and work your way through. For a sample taster, though, I'd highly recommend the March 1982 Peel session, which they released on Cherry Red as 'The Nightingales e.p.' later that year. Featuring 'My Brilliant Career' (if you don't like that, give up) and 'Son of God's Mate'. Yellow and white cover, with an elephant on it.

madhair60

Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on February 11, 2021, 10:09:57 PM
It bleedin' well is you clown.

It has audio description on, is there a version for people like me whose senses are brilliantly, flawlessly intact?

Lisa Jesusandmarychain

Quote from: Pranet on February 11, 2021, 11:27:52 PM
Find it interesting to compare the Robert Lloyd of the film to the Robert Lloyd of when he briefly had a major label deal. It is sort of hard to believe they are the same person in some ways. But that happens when people disappear. You don't get to see the intermediate years of the ravages of age.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8n_ynTIcnY

The one comment underneath that video describes him as coming across as a bit of an arse, a view I empathise with. Describes Luis Bunuel's surrealist classic " L' Age D'or" as " obscure". Bit condescending. Nice to be reminded of top Pre- " Snub" 80s late night indie Prog " Rockin' In The UK" though ( later renamed to the slightly more suitable " Transmission" ).

Mobbd

Quote from: Egyptian Feast on February 11, 2021, 06:25:48 PM
I'll give it a go, cheers.

Ha! I don't mind at all, it has a nice ring to it. I also imagined a Dublin lad calling me 'Feasto', which just makes me think of Bono looking like a cunt in a gold suit.

I don't want to take us too far off-topic but I watched  Katie Melua on Chris Sievey KT Tunstall on Ivor Cutler and it was indeed pretty good. Thanks for recommending it.

I loved the stuff about his pen pal and it was so nice to see Phyllis King looking well. Always a delight to spot "Stewart Lee's grandad" Arnie Brown at large too. KT was a bit annoying to be honest but she seemed sincere.

Ferris

Quote from: madhair60 on February 12, 2021, 08:09:39 AM
It has audio description on, is there a version for people like me whose senses are brilliantly, flawlessly intact?

No and it's fucking annoying isn't it? Sorry.

Jockice

Quote from: another Mr. Lizard on February 12, 2021, 06:44:01 AM
Jockice is right, start with Pigs on Purpose and work your way through. For a sample taster, though, I'd highly recommend the March 1982 Peel session, which they released on Cherry Red as 'The Nightingales e.p.' later that year. Featuring 'My Brilliant Career' (if you don't like that, give up) and 'Son of God's Mate'. Yellow and white cover, with an elephant on it.

My Brilliant Career is my favourite Nightingales song. I'm sure John Peel described: "So why do I bother, I've always hated teachers' pets. I don't think dogs should be made to smoke cigarettes,'' as one of his favourite lyrics ever.

I'm still trying to get over Lloyd and John Taylor (or as he calls him Nigel) even being aware of each other's existence, let alone actually knowing each other. But of course they did. Part of the same music scene. I bet UB40 and Lawrence (who mentions going to school with the Durannies drummer Roger Taylor in I'm Against The Eighties) and The Beat all knew each other too. And they all knew Martin Degville.

I saw that KT Tunstall/Ivor Cutler documentary a few weeks ago while looking for something to watch while in bed. I didn't actually know much about either apart from the basics, but it was very good.

Brundle-Fly


TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Wayman C. McCreery on February 10, 2021, 10:58:11 PM
Now TV. An entertainment pass for a month is peanuts, or you can probably get a free trial.

Sorry a belated thanks, but a thanks all the same.

Johnboy

Yes, enjoyed the film - plenty of interesting heads in there.

Lloyd very likeable.

I watched it on Saturday and found it really interesting. Can't say I was particularly taken with the music but Robert seems like an engaging chap. Nice to see him and Stew having a pint in the Great Westen, a pub I've frequented on many occasions in the past.

Barney Sloane

Quote from: madhair60 on February 12, 2021, 08:09:39 AM
It has audio description on, is there a version for people like me whose senses are brilliantly, flawlessly intact?

Got a 'clean' version. Quality ain't the best but if anyone wants it, drop me a PM.

frajer

Like a few others here, I didn't know anything about Robert Lloyd or the Nightingales but found this a very enjoyable watch. I like that they didn't oversell their under-the-radar status as some great tragedy that needed to be rectified, but more a "that's how life goes sometimes" tale.

The script read-through did feel like the doc had wandered off-piste, but it's always great to see (the Actor) Kevin Eldon in full flow.

EOLAN

Quote from: frajer on February 17, 2021, 12:36:14 PM

The script read-through did feel like the doc had wandered off-piste, but it's always great to see (the Actor) Kevin Eldon in full flow.

Do we think Nish Kumar was purposely doing a monotonic dry reading of his part to contrast with Eldon's exuberant performance - or is that just his way?

thugler

This was alright. Didn't think nightingales sounded all that original though. Bar his lyrics, i thought they was pretty close to some other post punk stuff around at the time. Particularly the clip where they're clearly aping that post punk /funk type style, and robert is doing a kind of david byrne impression.

That solo album sounded awful though, no surprise he was dropped. Thought the new group sounded pretty good though, a nice way to update the sound and drummer doing vocals in tandem was cool.

Thought it was very entertaining, love the brum history and ape story

McFlymo

Quote from: Wayman C. McCreery on February 10, 2021, 10:58:11 PM
Now TV. An entertainment pass for a month is peanuts, or you can probably get a free trial.


:(

Egyptian Feast

It is on there McFlymo, but their search feature is unfeasibly shit. Try adding it to your watchlist from this link, it worked for me after ages of fruitless searching on their stupid app.

McFlymo

Sorted! Thanks for all the kelp! Fish! No, wait... Help! Thanks for all the help!

That's interesting how the search on their site literally doesn't list it, I had assumed it had just been taken down again. Is that a common issue? You just have to google the program you want and then click the Now TV affiliate link?

Either way, I've got it now, so I'm delighted. Thanks again!

Retinend


Jockice

I see The Nightingales are (virus permitting) playing a few dates towards the ends of the year, including a pub that is one of my regular haunts. I'm tempted to go. It'll be the first time I've seen him live for at least three decades - and under the band name add an extra few years to that. It might be worth it just to see if he snubs me again. I mean, don't you know who I am?

Retinend

I wasn't the biggest fan of this film. On the one hand, Lee wants to say that the Nightingales were a major missing piece in music history, but on the other hand, he can't bring himself to stay out of the limelight enough to really let the band take centre stage.

By that I mean that this documentary is not just about the Nightingales:
It's about a punk/post-punk gig scene that the young Stewart Lee strove to belong to,
it's about performers of this scene that Stewart Lee preferred (Tedd Chippington gets screen time by the tenuous link that he opened for the Nightingales once),
it's about a piece of temporary public art that stood at that pivotal time and symbolizes, for the modern-day Stewart Lee in particular, "la recherche du temps perdu"
and ultimately, it's all about Stewart Lee paying thanks to someone who gave him artistic inspiration as a young man, and getting to meet him.

I enjoyed the film for the sake of learning a bit more about a "pop" culture (or whatever post-punk is best termed) from before my time, but as much as I admire Stewart Lee as a stand-up comedian, I don't think much of him as a broadcaster. In the manner in which he talks to the camera, I think he tries too hard to show that he doesn't care: he doesn't let his enthusiasm show - and he seems amused at the nonsense of having to do such linking-bits. He also doesn't bring anyone on-screen who can speak with authority and enthusiasm on his behalf. The only time he shows his enthusiasm is when he is doing that thing you do when you are full of admiration and adrenaline and you laugh twice as hard as you should at the things your hero says.

I think Lee would have clever justifications for every decision he made on this project, up to and including the notion that he is engaged in "deconstruction" of the documentary form.... but in the end the film's raison d'être (both in terms of subject matter and execution) seems suspiciously like pure ego

McFlymo

I agree with a lot of what you're saying: I thought maybe Stewart Lee was in it too much and prompted Robert Lloyd too much at times, but for all those faults I still loved it.

If it was just a fanboy ego trip from Lee, it was an enjoyable one. I'm interested enough in Lee's knowledge on music and culture that I'm happy enough to be taken along that journey, indulgent as it maybe. Robert Lloyd was intriguing, seemed genuinely lovely and motivated by nothing more than a love of his art and craft. I also quite like the Nightingales sound, since Fliss Kitson joined. Loved the closing piece
Spoiler alert
(with Samira Ahmed lip syncing "Gales Doc")
[close]
.

Phil_A

Quote from: Retinend on March 01, 2021, 01:00:42 PM
it's about performers of this scene that Stewart Lee preferred (Tedd Chippington gets screen time by the tenuous link that he opened for the Nightingales once),

Chippington was signed to Lloyd's label Vindaloo Records and they(and Fuzzbox) had a minor hit single as "Vindaloo Summer Special", so a bit more than a tenuous link. The inclusion of Robin Asquith was more questionable.


thugler

Quote from: Retinend on March 01, 2021, 01:00:42 PM
I wasn't the biggest fan of this film. On the one hand, Lee wants to say that the Nightingales were a major missing piece in music history, but on the other hand, he can't bring himself to stay out of the limelight enough to really let the band take centre stage.

By that I mean that this documentary is not just about the Nightingales:
It's about a punk/post-punk gig scene that the young Stewart Lee strove to belong to,
it's about performers of this scene that Stewart Lee preferred (Tedd Chippington gets screen time by the tenuous link that he opened for the Nightingales once),
it's about a piece of temporary public art that stood at that pivotal time and symbolizes, for the modern-day Stewart Lee in particular, "la recherche du temps perdu"
and ultimately, it's all about Stewart Lee paying thanks to someone who gave him artistic inspiration as a young man, and getting to meet him.

I enjoyed the film for the sake of learning a bit more about a "pop" culture (or whatever post-punk is best termed) from before my time, but as much as I admire Stewart Lee as a stand-up comedian, I don't think much of him as a broadcaster. In the manner in which he talks to the camera, I think he tries too hard to show that he doesn't care: he doesn't let his enthusiasm show - and he seems amused at the nonsense of having to do such linking-bits. He also doesn't bring anyone on-screen who can speak with authority and enthusiasm on his behalf. The only time he shows his enthusiasm is when he is doing that thing you do when you are full of admiration and adrenaline and you laugh twice as hard as you should at the things your hero says.

I think Lee would have clever justifications for every decision he made on this project, up to and including the notion that he is engaged in "deconstruction" of the documentary form.... but in the end the film's raison d'être (both in terms of subject matter and execution) seems suspiciously like pure ego

Eh? Chippington was only in it for all of 5 minutes, and it wasn't just because he opened for them once..

McFlymo

Quote from: Phil_A on March 01, 2021, 08:16:51 PM
The inclusion of Robin Asquith was more questionable.

Spoiler alert
his list of people he has showered with, delivered so matter-of-fact was fucking hilarious though.
[close]

Retinend

Quote from: thugler on March 01, 2021, 08:18:32 PM
Eh? Chippington was only in it for all of 5 minutes, and it wasn't just because he opened for them once..

I was using it as an example of Lee being self-indulgent. It seemed tenuous to me.

rilk


Phil_A

Quote from: Retinend on March 01, 2021, 08:50:25 PM
I was using it as an example of Lee being self-indulgent. It seemed tenuous to me.

I've just told you why he was included in the film!

I find your analysis of the film a bit baffling to be honest, as you've ascribed a motivation to Lee which you say yourself is entirely hypothetical. He has at no point claimed he's trying to deconstruct the documentary format, or anything that high-minded.

As to whether Lee makes the story too much about himself, bear in mind that the presence of Award-Winning Comedian Stewart Lee would've been a factor in getting this film made and distributed, as opposed to it being a film about a seemingly quite marginal pop culture figure.


Retinend

Quote from: rilk on March 01, 2021, 10:42:01 PM
mate
Quote from: Phil_A on March 01, 2021, 11:43:25 PM
I've just told you why he was included in the film!

I admit you're both right - I misremembered the reason for shoe-horning Chippington in there.

Can we at least agree he was shoe-horned in there? When I saw the clip of the Nightingales and Ted Chippington sharing the same stage I felt like I was watching a figment of Stewart Lee's teenaged imagination - like a teenaged wall-poster-shrine come to life, dancing girls included.

I wouldn't like to go on and on, because at the end of the day I got my fill of enjoyment from the thing - it's cosy, it has an interesting subject, and I'm happy to sum it up as "interesting documentary, but self-indulgently presented". I don't want to give the impression that I hate Lee and everything he stands for - as I said, I am a fan.




But for the sake of discussion (controversy creates conversation) I will go on:

Re "deconstruction" - Lee papers over the cracks with a meta-joke about "hey maybe we'll find that old Chippington footage - oh look, we have!" There are other examples of him doing this in the film, such as him mentioning that he is searching for an "emotional through line" and giving the impression that it wouldn't really bother him should he not find one.

I think Lee could have improved his contributions to the film by wearing his enthusiasm on his sleeve more. He should have opened the documentary with "I will never forget the Birmingham of 1974" (or whenever the statue was standing) "...and I will never forget The Nightingales, or the Barbarella" [cue appropriate clips] "Who are the Nightingales, I hear you ask?..."  etc. etc. Just saying how he feels about it, so that even if we don't agree with him we can understand what it meant to him and fellow fans.

When I "ascribe motive" to him, I do it based on the fact that he neglects to do these sorts of conventional things that could connect to a larger audience, and - to state the obvious - after following someone's career for some time you get a sense (however limited) of the kind of person they are and why they do things.

Mobbd

Quote from: Retinend on March 02, 2021, 08:26:41 AM
When I saw the clip of the Nightingales and Ted Chippington sharing the same stage I felt like I was watching a figment of Stewart Lee's teenaged imagination.

Teenage experience, not imagination. I can't understand why you have a problem with people telling us about their experiences, especially when they're a bit rarefied or unusual and under-documented. Your objections are quite bizarre.

Is it Stew's privilege that bothers you? That we don't all have the access and ability to have a film like this made and put on the telly? If so, what should people with this privilege do exactly? Should they shut up forever and offer the world nothing?