Author Topic: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight  (Read 8577 times)

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2021, 07:14:58 PM »
He mentioned on the Adam Buxton Podcast that he's embarrassed to have been successful when the real auteurs of stand-up like Munnery are left in relative obscurity.

I think this is a bit of modesty from Stew, as well as trying to help an old friend out - he’s mentioned Munnery a few times in interviews and stuff.

I’ve seen Munnery live several times (including opening for Stew if memory serves, and separately in-character with a guitar), he’s a fine comic but I don’t think he’s some auteur outsider-genius or anything.

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Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2021, 07:21:29 PM »
But I like grotesque, corrosive, incoherent bursts of noise and aggression! And Hanatrash did it with a sense of humour as well (at least from their second record, when the lead bloke had calmed down a bit). Anyway, I would personally classify this live set from the late Sophie as a subset of it, perhaps.

non capisco

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Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2021, 07:25:22 PM »
Genuinely switched it off, so I didn't know that,

Is it a good thing to do? I mean, what's the point in that?

It mocks and nullifies the tone you were so annoyed by that it made you switch off after the first minute. If it had been 90 mins of Stewart Lee at his most pompous giving us a lecture about the cultural value of the Nightingales and patting himself on the back for knowing about them when most of the audience didn't then, yes, it would have been shit, but it really wasn't that at all.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 07:44:53 PM by non capisco »

Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2021, 07:32:45 PM »
It may surprise you to learn that I've had this conversation before, or variations on the theme, and this always happens. I'm so humbled and impressed by this kind of thing. Wow, it's so extreme, etc.

So the point is, obscure music has two settings: grey, sarcastic man songs, or grotesque, corrosive, incoherent bursts of noise and aggression, which I expect I'm supposed to understand is the 'arty' stuff. Both as glum and uninspiring as the other.

I tell you who I like out of this sort of thing: The Go-Betweens. And the documentary on them was still a bit boring, to be honest.

I've changed my mind. If the infrequent celebration of unusual, unique or marginal culture makes you feel alienated and unhappy, so much the better.

Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2021, 08:49:41 PM »
It mocks and nullifies the tone you were so annoyed by that it made you switch off after the first minute. If it had been 90 mins of Stewart Lee at his most pompous giving us a lecture about the cultural value of the Nightingales and patting himself on the back for knowing about them when most of the audience didn't then, yes, it would have been shit, but it really wasn't that at all.

So Stew Lee made a documentary about ... himself?

Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2021, 08:53:06 PM »
I've changed my mind. If the infrequent celebration of unusual, unique or marginal culture makes you feel alienated and unhappy, so much the better.

I'm quite keen on embracing art that doesn't rely on such ungainly, binary posturing as this, to be honest.

In any case, my problem is with the notion of the inherent superiority of the the marginal, not the work itself. I like loads of marginal shit. I just don't pat myself on the back for it.

Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2021, 09:23:50 PM »
The Go-Betweens are an 'obscure' band now? Aren't they practically R.E.M. in Australia?

Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2021, 09:32:42 PM »
The Go-Betweens are an 'obscure' band now? Aren't they practically R.E.M. in Australia?

No. According to Wikipedia, 16 Lover's Lane reached the giddy heights of no. 48. Cattle and Cane (one of the greatest songs ever written) didn't even chart, anywhere in the world.

I'd argue they're pretty obscure, yeah. Even if they didn't always sound like it.

icehaven

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Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2021, 10:22:57 PM »
No. According to Wikipedia, 16 Lover's Lane reached the giddy heights of no. 48. Cattle and Cane (one of the greatest songs ever written) didn't even chart, anywhere in the world.

I'd argue they're pretty obscure, yeah. Even if they didn't always sound like it.

The Go Betweens are not obscure, I've heard of them ffs. And Cattle and Cane sounds like a Duran Duran b side.

Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2021, 10:25:43 PM »
Icehaven is correct in that The Go-Betweens are not obscure.

Icehaven is BANG WRONG to diss Cattle & Cane.

icehaven

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Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2021, 10:28:42 PM »
Icehaven is correct in that The Go-Betweens are not obscure.

Icehaven is BANG WRONG to diss Cattle & Cane.

Not a diss, I love Duran Duran!

non capisco

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Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2021, 10:31:37 PM »
So Stew Lee made a documentary about ... himself?

I guess partially but really about Robert Lloyd and I don't think in the tone that made you switch it off at the start.

Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2021, 10:48:04 PM »
Oh sorry, my mistake. Now I’ve looked into it, it turns out that The Go-Betweens were exactly as famous as REM. I must have missed that world tour of stadiums they did.

What’s everyone’s favourite Forster/McLennan tune? I love that duet between Grant and Kiki Dee. Number one for so long they had to delete it, didn’t they??

Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2021, 10:57:38 PM »
Everything below worldwide stadium tours is obscure now?

Maybe I overstated their popularity a tad with the R.E.M. remark, but they're not obscure. They're held up as one of Australia's most important pop/rock groups. They had a bridge in Brisbane named after them FFS. It's not like they did one Sha-La-La flexi in 1986 and fucked off. Most people into 'indie' guitar music beyond britpop/'landfill' will have heard of them.

Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2021, 11:15:23 PM »
No offence to Brisbane, but that’s like saying that Fuzzbox have a lamppost in Hull named after them.

I had heard of them, vaguely, but never actually heard them until 6 or 7 years ago. However, I don’t spend my weekday evenings eating crisps and listening to Marc Riley, so only myself to blame there.

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Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2021, 11:22:41 PM »
I sorta agree with and disagree with sweeper.

Re: stu, I really like his dedication to the obscure and weird, and definitely think plenty of excellent stuff falls through the cracks and gets less mainstream attention than it deserves.

I also feel like the received wisdom of the progression and chronology of culture is often history-written-by-the-victors bollocks that ignores influential non-mainstream stuff, but I think Stewart sometimes over-eggs the counter narrative. Like, I like Ted chippington and munnery is alright but i really don't think they're THAT important.

Oh and I love the go-betweens, but I think they're definitely obscure.  You'd be annoyed if you gave them as an answer on pointless and they didn't add £250 to the jackpot .

non capisco

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Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2021, 11:25:29 PM »
I sorta agree with and disagree with sweeper.

I was taking their points on board but they've started having a go at people who like eating crisps on weekday evenings now.

Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2021, 11:29:46 PM »
that’s like saying that Fuzzbox have a lamppost in Hull named after them.

It's not though, is it? It's a busy toll bridge in Australia's third biggest city.

Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2021, 11:33:37 PM »
I know that, I was joking. But also, pretty sure that Brisbane’s backwatery-ness is an established part of the GB’s narrative. They were frustrated being stuck out in the sticks and so forth. I think the bridge thing is nice, but not sure it’s as big a deal as you think.

Marc Riley listeners eat crisps in the night, and that’s a fact.

icehaven

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Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2021, 11:35:04 PM »
The Go Betweens are not obscure. My entire musical knowledge comes from NME and Mojo of the 90s and I've heard of them. They cannot count as "obscure" .

Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2021, 11:36:46 PM »
A quick google shows that 2.5 million people live in Brisbane's metropolitan area. The 'sticks' eh?

So, The Nightingales...

Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2021, 11:40:08 PM »
I enjoyed the film but thought that the music was absolute shite cheers

the science eel

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Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2021, 11:42:28 PM »
I enjoyed it  - kind of cosy. Lots of fun chat and cafes and bits of pubs and UK landscapes. The sort of things we're not doing much or seeing much of right now. Couple of funny anecdotes - Frank S standing outside a B'ham pub hollering 'Blitzkrieg Bop' to audition for the band, Nigel Slater getting pushed out of his posh cooking column by RL making shit up.

I kind of like some Nightingales stuff but at the same time it's rubbish. Strange there was no sign of 'Something Nice' - almost definitely his most well-known song. Maybe he asked for it not to be included?

Big fella, isn't he? Stew comes across as having a kinder temperament, despite all the 'ego' calls here, and Lloyd has the 'darker side' - but he was sweet with his son.

Oh, and little bits of Peel and Walters. Takes me right back. Lovely men, happy days.

non capisco

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Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2021, 11:46:08 PM »
Stew comes across as having a kinder temperament

He's like a cuddly happy Orson Welles these days.

Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2021, 02:15:39 AM »
The bit people were complaining about earlier in this thread, where S Lee talks about mediocrity being rewarded, was a visual joke I think, as an electronic billboard directly behind him was advertising a Comedy Central show featuring various comics I doubt he approves of...

For me, the problem with the film was that it didn't properly convey what's good about the band. I really liked how it was largely devoid of critics and fans praising them, but equally, I thought Paul Morley's bit offered context that was otherwise missing.

the science eel

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Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2021, 08:30:56 AM »
I really liked how it was largely devoid of critics and fans praising them


None available?

Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2021, 09:09:09 AM »
The bit people were complaining about earlier in this thread, where S Lee talks about mediocrity being rewarded, was a visual joke I think, as an electronic billboard directly behind him was advertising a Comedy Central show featuring various comics I doubt he approves of...

For me, the problem with the film was that it didn't properly convey what's good about the band. I really liked how it was largely devoid of critics and fans praising them, but equally, I thought Paul Morley's bit offered context that was otherwise missing.

Good to see Paul Morley do that thing with his hands that he does.

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Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #57 on: February 08, 2021, 09:50:09 AM »
The bit people were complaining about earlier in this thread, where S Lee talks about mediocrity being rewarded, was a visual joke I think, as an electronic billboard directly behind him was advertising a Comedy Central show featuring various comics I doubt he approves of...

On this point, i was stunned to find that rounding off his script-reading panel of Bridget Christie, Paul Putner and Kevin Eldon there was Seann Walsh who I'd long written off as not even the poor man's Russell Kane. Wouldn't have thought he was anywhere near Lee's orbit

turnstyle

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Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2021, 10:28:08 AM »
I too, enjoyed this, despite not knowing the Nightingales' music. And weirdly, after having watched it, I felt like I'd had my fill of their back catalogue. The early, spiky, raw stuff was decent, but the solo stuff from the 90s, to me at least, was clearly heavily produced and marketed with having a hit in mind. The man pretty much said it himself. The end result was basically pop landfill, complete with terrible cover art of floppy-haired band man that seemed to have none of the edge or bite of the work of his earlier bands. If he had achieved success at this point in his career, it surely would have been at the expense of losing his core audience and replacing it with teenage girls and Smash Hits covers.

There were some great cameos along the way. Like others have said, the Frank Skinner story was great, and getting Nigel Slater kicked off GQ is hilarious.




Re: Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight
« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2021, 10:34:53 AM »
Thoroughly enjoyed the documentary.  Was completely unaware of The Nightingales but have been giving them a listen today as a huge chunk of their stuff (and the Robert Lloyd solo album 'Me And My Mouth') is on Spotify.

That solo album is right up my street.  A great pop album.  A bit XTC-ish in places.

I've just been listening to "Part Of The Anchor" over and over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffNy5ohgjnE

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