Stewart Lee and Michael Cumming's King Rocker - tonight

[Jockice]

What would be the best album to start with for a n00b?

I'd start at the very beginning with their debut, Pigs On Purpose.

[Mobbd]

The search function on the Now TV app is ridiculous. It took me ages to find King Rocker last night, ended up having to google it separately on my phone, change my password and add the doc to my watchlist. I had the same trouble finding that Ivor Cutler doc recently.

I just googled for the Cutler doc, hankering to watch it after you mentioned it. KT Tunstall on Ivor Cutler? The fuck? Is this real?

[sweeper]

I just googled for the Cutler doc, hankering to watch it after you mentioned it. KT Tunstall on Ivor Cutler? The fuck? Is this real?

Watching you alternative culture types squirm with cognitive dissonance is a great spectator sport

[Egyptian Feast]

I just googled for the Cutler doc, hankering to watch it after you mentioned it. KT Tunstall on Ivor Cutler? The fuck? Is this real?

Yeah, it's pretty good and the choice of host isn't as bizarre as it might seem at first. I've seen her live a few times as my partner is a fan and she's a very likeable performer with an endearingly absurdist sense of humour.

[RenegadeScrew]

Watching you alternative culture types squirm with cognitive dissonance is a great spectator sport

What alternative culture types?  This is all mainstream, it's all a commercial venture.

I think more seriously this is just another one of those things that largely exists in your head.  Like large sales of hip hop in the 80s, the avant-garde vision of Radiohead, the experimental nature of Kendrick Lamar, or the ever-changing definition of mainstream/alternative to suit your needs for amusement.

[phantom_power]

Ivor Cutler is the definition of alternative culture isn't he? Had a decades-spanning career and yet I bet 9/10 people have never heard of him

[sweeper]

What alternative culture types?  This is all mainstream, it's all a commercial venture.

I think more seriously this is just another one of those things that largely exists in your head.  Like large sales of hip hop in the 80s, the avant-garde vision of Radiohead, the experimental nature of Kendrick Lamar, or the ever-changing definition of mainstream/alternative to suit your needs for amusement.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, mate.

[RenegadeScrew]

Ivor Cutler is the definition of alternative culture isn't he? Had a decades-spanning career and yet I bet 9/10 people have never heard of him

Yes although it depends on whether you've got a motive for the definition.  I wasn't being entirely serious.

You could easily hail his appearance in a Beatles video as an example of the mainstream being all cutting-edge and experimental. 

[gilbertharding]

Yeah, it's pretty good and the choice of host isn't as bizarre as it might seem at first. I've seen her live a few times as my partner is a fan and she's a very likeable performer with an endearingly absurdist sense of humour.

I thought it seemed pretty strange that she was involved at all (I don't know very much about her, except she seems to be a decent musician) - until I actually watched it. It was a pretty good job all round.

BBC4 did an Ivor Cutler night ages ago while he was still alive which was also very good (IIRC).

[Brundle-Fly]

Approx 3 minutes in, Stew Lee, dressed as Brusher Mills the New Forest snake catcher, says:

'Our society rewards mediocrity and ignores genius.'

So I switched it off.

Did you eventually watch it?

[sweeper]

Did you eventually watch it?

No. I can't bear Stewart Lee, to be honest.

I used to be a huge fan, but after Milder Comedian / first series of Comedy Vehicle I've found him intolerable.

i would've watched this if he'd kept himself in the background more, I like the sound of the Nightingales chap, but as it's clearly about Lee, and his view of the world, I'm not particularly interested.

[Brundle-Fly]

Fair enough. Shame, as it's very good.

I don't think I'll ask why you've found Lee intolerable for the last ten years because that just might open up a whole crate of worm cans. 

[sweeper]

Probably a topic of its own. I'm sure it's been dealt with by others on this forum. 

He fucks me right off, though, I'll tell you.

[sutin]

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, mate.

I know what's he talking about, and he's perfectly summed you up.

[sweeper]

I know what's he talking about, and he's perfectly summed you up.

Okay, can you break it down for me, please? Because I don't follow.

[Cuellar]

Just thought I'd pop in to add that everyone's heard of the The Go-Betweens ok cheers

[sweeper]

Just thought I'd pop in to add that everyone's heard of the The Go-Betweens ok cheers

I know - remember when they were the house band on Wogan? Ten million people tapping their feet to 'The Clarke Sisters' and 'Apology Accepted' every week.

It was a different times.

[Dusty Substance]

They were a band that had been on my radar for about 20 years, hearing the occasional track on Peel or downloading the odd tune from some long gone indie blog, but I never physically owned any of their records.

Then in 2016 I got a chance to see them in a local pub (by local, I can literally see it from my flat):

With The Nightingales you've really got to see them live: Fliss and Robert in particular are fantastic to watch, every song bleeds into one with no pause between or usually any acknowledgement of the audience. There's no cringey matey banter, they're just a machine and it's a numbing hypnotic experience seeing them when they're on form.

^^^^ This is the perfect description. They were mesmerising, unlike anything I'd ever seen before. They went from being a band I knew nothing about to being the best live band I have ever seen. Lloyd wasn't exactly thrilled that there were ten people in the audience, including the promoter, but one of the ten was Nick Saloman of The Bevis Frond which sort of made up for lack of numbers.

Met most of the band after the gig, spent way too much on records and merch (anyone else got a Nightingales compact mirror?) and I still maintain that they're the best live band I've ever seen.


Loved the doc, too. Best music doc I've seen for a while.

[Mobbd]

Yeah, it's pretty good and the choice of host isn't as bizarre as it might seem at first. I've seen her live a few times as my partner is a fan and she's a very likeable performer with an endearingly absurdist sense of humour.

Regina Spektor on Simon Munnery.

Only joking. I'll give it a look. Thanks Feasty. Mind if I call you Feasty?

[scarecrow]

As I only know the early hits - which I don't like at all - I've always found it interesting that KT Tunstall seems to be admired by my favourites Robyn Hitchcock and Howe Gelb, to extent that the latter seems to have produced an album of hers. She must be sort of cool!

[Brundle-Fly]

KT Tunstall has always struck me as being cool in interviews. I wonder if my perception of what 'cool' means would make her really non-cool with anyone under the age of 25?  "Oh, god, she into this really creepy old dude from the last century."

[scarecrow]

Sandi Thom set to present a documentary on Phil Minton.

[Oz Oz Alice]

Evangelista: The Carla Bozulich story presented by one of The Kooks coming up after the Ceramic Hobs documentary that Kate Nash made.

[Egyptian Feast]

I'd start at the very beginning with their debut, Pigs On Purpose.

I'll give it a go, cheers.

Regina Spektor on Simon Munnery.

Only joking. I'll give it a look. Thanks Feasty. Mind if I call you Feasty?

Ha! I don't mind at all, it has a nice ring to it. I also imagined a Dublin lad calling me 'Feasto', which just makes me think of Bono looking like a cunt in a gold suit.

[madhair60]

It's not

[perdothegit]

It might even be UKTVland on reddit already, who can say?

Unfortunately, if that were true it might be a version that had the "audio descriptions" for the sight-impaired turned on throughout the whole video. Not that I'm not appreciative! It's just a bit hard to get into. Hopefully another one will turn up.

[Ferris]

It's not

It bleedin' well is you clown.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Approx 3 minutes in, Stew Lee, dressed as Brusher Mills the New Forest snake catcher, says:

'Our society rewards mediocrity and ignores genius.'

So I switched it off.

Subtle. I like it.

I enjoyed the documentary, despite having never heard of the Nightingales. I enjoyed it as a story of a talented musician who never quite made it big. Makes you wonder how many others are out there like him, who had the talent to be megafamous but things never broke the right way for them.

[Pranet]

Find it interesting to compare the Robert Lloyd of the film to the Robert Lloyd of when he briefly had a major label deal. It is sort of hard to believe they are the same person in some ways. But that happens when people disappear. You don't get to see the intermediate years of the ravages of age.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8n_ynTIcnY

[Brundle-Fly]

Find it interesting to compare the Robert Lloyd of the film to the Robert Lloyd of when he briefly had a major label deal. It is sort of hard to believe they are the same person in some ways. But that happens when people disappear. You don't get to see the intermediate years of the ravages of age.

YouTube has a lot to answer for because you have instant access to the past. Yeah, we had TOTP 2 etc in the past to be nostalgic but not to this level of exposure.  I can spend all day looking at pop videos from the early eighties and it's easy to forget that it was all nearly forty years ago. Then, you switch on Celebrity Pointless or some BBC4/ Sky Arts music doc and those baby faced pop stars now look like they're melting or been inflated with a foot pump. It's always a mini shock.