Author Topic: Ridley vs Tony  (Read 1500 times)

Ridley vs Tony
« on: February 11, 2021, 12:26:44 AM »
Sure Ridley's got the big hitters but I seem to lap up any old shite Tony done in a way I can with few directors. A total weirdo who seemed to be always on the verge of either failing miserably or doing something super fun with most of his films.
Definitely would've preffered having Tony around for the last ten years to see what he'd've  spewed out.



Never seen Top Gun mind, and Days of Thunder is the closest I've come to disliking a Tony Scott film.

bgmnts

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2021, 12:31:26 AM »
I mean, it's obviously Ridley Scott just for making Alien alone. But Gladiator, Thelma and Louise and Blade Runner, pretty good CV that.

Saying that, I love True Romance and Top Gun and Tony had the good sense to die before making utter dogshit like The Martian, Alien: Covenant and Robin Hood.

mothman

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2021, 12:45:40 AM »
Looking at the more populist end of Tony’s filmography, it looks like directors like Bay or Verbinski have inherited his mantle. Not sure who’ll replace Ridley though.

beanheadmcginty

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2021, 12:46:50 AM »
Terry for me. His work on Danger Mouse dwarfs anything the other two achieved.

mothman

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2021, 12:49:27 AM »

Chollis

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2021, 01:00:52 AM »
It's got to be Barry for me. Completely revolutionised the cleaning product industry

chveik

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2021, 01:04:42 AM »
Gary, all day

mothman

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2021, 01:05:52 AM »
Personally, I’m very excited right now. Many’s the time I’ve invoked Great Scott, now at last we could be about to conclusively determine WHICH one that is.

Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2021, 01:53:19 AM »
Looking at the more populist end of Tony’s filmography, it looks like directors like Bay or Verbinski have inherited his mantle. Not sure who’ll replace Ridley though.

I always felt that Fincher was somewhat similar to latter Scott in that whilst he clearly had his own style he was also a bit of a hired hand, I think you could argue he thrived rather more in that environment though and is rather more choosey about what he worked on.

Early on I wouldnt say the brothers were really THAT different, I could imagine Ridley making The Hunger personally and Top Gun really is I think still more 80's romantic drama than standard actioner.

Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2021, 08:27:14 AM »
I mean, it's obviously Ridley Scott just for making Alien alone. But Gladiator, Thelma and Louise and Blade Runner, pretty good CV that.

Saying that, I love True Romance and Top Gun and Tony had the good sense to die before making utter dogshit like The Martian, Alien: Covenant and Robin Hood.

What? The Martian is a great film. Ridley has done some other interesting, lesser known films like Matchstick Men, The Duellists and Black Rain as well, and Black Hawk Down is one of the most intense film experiences I have ever had

Tony did a few good films like Last Boy Scout, True Romance and Crimson Tide but he did a lot of shit as well and I fucking hate those 80s films he did like Top Gun and Days of Thunder. Ridley is definitely the winner for me, Clive

Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2021, 10:31:08 AM »
What? The Martian is a great film. Ridley has done some other interesting, lesser known films like Matchstick Men, The Duellists and Black Rain as well, and Black Hawk Down is one of the most intense film experiences I have ever had

Tony did a few good films like Last Boy Scout, True Romance and Crimson Tide but he did a lot of shit as well and I fucking hate those 80s films he did like Top Gun and Days of Thunder. Ridley is definitely the winner for me, Clive

Ridley since the late 80's has I'v say really been dependant on the quality of script, he was never a writer but before that I get the sense scripts were being re written to his specs were as afterwards more of a sense he's working to an existing script, I can't think of too many examples of him messing up a script that had potential to it.

The Alien prequels I strongly suspect weren't made as an auteur, the presence of someone like Lindelof suggests less than total control to me.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2021, 10:45:05 AM by greenman »

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2021, 11:00:49 AM »
The Alien prequels I strongly suspect weren't made as an auteur, the presence of someone like Lindelof suggests less than total control to me.

Lindelof literally states on the making of documentary on the Prometheus Blu-Ray that he shut up and transcribed what Ridley wanted to see in the movie because Ridley’s an auteur and he dared not question him.

Blumf

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2021, 11:09:35 AM »
Not sure who’ll replace Ridley though.

Isn't Christopher Nolan kinda edging onto his seat?

buzby

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2021, 11:15:31 AM »
The Alien prequels I strongly suspect weren't made as an auteur, the presence of someone like Lindelof suggests less than total control to me.
Ridley was the person who hired Lindelof to rework Jon Spaihts' first draft of Prometheus (then titled Alien Zero) Scott sent him the draft and asked him to pitch how he would develop it.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/damon-lindelof-struggling-depression-why-838257
Scott produced the film (though Scott Free Productions) as well as directing it.

The original intention was that Lindelof was going to work on the second prequel from the start, but after the disappointing box office and mixed reaction to Prometheus Fox weren't happy, so according to Lindelof he basically discounted himself at their first meeting to discuss the next film, saying he was going to be too busy with Star Trek and working on Tomorrowland with Brad Bird to save Ridley having to tell him he'd been given the boot.

Edit: what Ed said too.

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2021, 01:06:50 PM »
Which ever one worked with Roger Deakins the most, obviously.

Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2021, 01:36:07 PM »
Ridley. Tony had a few that I quite liked (The Hunger, True Romance, Top Gun, Beverly Hills Cop II) but Ridley has made some bona fide classics (Alien, Blade Runner, Thelma & Louise, I'd put Gladiator up there too) and several others I quite liked. And he's a SIR.

Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2021, 03:28:13 PM »
Ridley was the person who hired Lindelof to rework Jon Spaihts' first draft of Prometheus (then titled Alien Zero) Scott sent him the draft and asked him to pitch how he would develop it.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/damon-lindelof-struggling-depression-why-838257
Scott produced the film (though Scott Free Productions) as well as directing it.

The original intention was that Lindelof was going to work on the second prequel from the start, but after the disappointing box office and mixed reaction to Prometheus Fox weren't happy, so according to Lindelof he basically discounted himself at their first meeting to discuss the next film, saying he was going to be too busy with Star Trek and working on Tomorrowland with Brad Bird to save Ridley having to tell him he'd been given the boot.

Edit: what Ed said too.

As with Starwars I take this kind of thing very much with a pinch of salt as execs are never likely to own up to meddling with a franchise/director, both those films to me feel very strongly like there being pulled around by studio demands(most obviously for more standard Alien action) and Lindelof is exactly the kind of writer I could see being hired for that and came with with a very Abrams cliquish(read confused and over stuffed) script when they were most in fashion.

I can't be alone in seeing a pretty clear line in Scott's career in the mid 80's post Legend, shifting from a very visually focused director were the script is being shaped for that aspect to someone making less risky more script focused and star led films. He found a happy medium for his career of working somewhat to order but still having rather more freedom than your typical hired hand.

buzby

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2021, 04:34:40 PM »
As with Starwars I take this kind of thing very much with a pinch of salt as execs are never likely to own up to meddling with a franchise/director, both those films to me feel very strongly like there being pulled around by studio demands(most obviously for more standard Alien action) and Lindelof is exactly the kind of writer I could see being hired for that and came with with a very Abrams cliquish(read confused and over stuffed) script when they were most in fashion.
You can believe what you like. I can only post links to interviews Lindelof (and others involved) have given, years after the film came out (so not covered by 'we were all such a happy family making this' promo sheen).

Fox did meddle in pre-production to the extent that Scott was originally not going to direct it himself, only produce it. He had selected Carl Erik Rinsch as director but Fox believed audiences would only be interested if Scott returned to directing an Alien film.  They also liked the idea of expanding it from a direct prequel into the first of a new franchise and that is when Scott hired Lindelof to rewrite the script with that idea in mind. That's how Ridley has operated post-Blade Runner - he tries to keep the investors happy by giving them what they ask for.
Quote
I can't be alone in seeing a pretty clear line in Scott's career in the mid 80's post Legend, shifting from a very visually focused director were the script is being shaped for that aspect to someone making less risky more script focused and star led films. He found a happy medium for his career of working somewhat to order but still having rather more freedom than your typical hired hand.
It's very clear what happened on Legend and his following films. He already had a bit fo a 'difficult' reputation making Alien but that had been a hit no nobody was that bothered. After what happend on Blade Runner he was afraid he was going to get a reputation as someone who made great looking 'cult' films that were liked by the critics but were uncommercial and that went over-schedule and over-budget. Where on Blade Runner he fought the producers over the schedule, budget and  for each creative decision to the extent they took the final edit off him, on Legend he brought it in on time and on budget (despite the fire that destroyed the forest set) and he made every change the studio asked him to do in post-production. He basically reverted to using the same approach he would do with clients when he was directing adverts.

Kingdom Of Men is another recent example, where he cut out 45 minutes for the theatrical release at Fox's request (much to the detriment of the film), which he then put back in for the Directors Cut home release a year later. The young Ridley would have probably fought tooth and nail not to make those cuts.

All his films after Legend have been primarily concered with being commercial and coming in on time and on budget (even moreso after he started producing them himself). If he can get some visual flair in then it's all to the good, but it seems his primary concern is being a safe pair of hands for the investors, and being involved as a producer means he has more interest that his films are commercial hits.

Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2021, 07:17:36 PM »

When Tony died, I made a big declaration on Facebook that Tony was actually the better of the Scott brothers, especially after the then recent disappointment of Prometheus. While I still stand by a lot of the points I made about why Tony was superior, when it comes down to it, of course Ridley is better. Even if he'd retired after Alien and Tony's career continued as normal, Rids would still be the better film maker. However, given that Ridley was the better film maker, it meant that it became more noticeable when he dropped the ball.

For most of the time, you knew what to expect from a Tony Scott film; Slick action, glossy cinematography, Denzel Washington etc. I don't if there was any rivalry between the brothers, or if they even spoke about each other in interviews. In fact, even though I was a keen film fan from a very young age, it wasn't until my teens in the mid 90s that I realised they were brothers (I'd long assumed Tony was an American).

Haven't given too much thought to the order but here's my ranking of the Scott Brothers films:

1. Alien
2. Blade Runner
3. Gladiator
4. Thelma & Louise
5. True Romance
6. The Martian
7. The Hunger
8. Legend
9. Black Hawk Down
10. Crimson Tide

11. Hannibal
12. Beverly Hills Cop 2
13. Kingdom Of Heaven
14. Deja Vu
15. Spy Game
16. Prometheus
17. 1492: Conquest Of Paradise
18. Alien: Covenant
19. Man On Fire
20. American Gangster

21. The Fan
22. Days Of Thunder

mothman

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2021, 08:30:44 PM »
That’s a good list. I don’t personally rate The Hunger or Black Hawk Down, so Spy Game (a film i unaccountably love) would take one of their places in the top ten, along with... hey! You don’t like The Duellists, at all? That would probably be in my top three...

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2021, 08:55:00 PM »
...both those films to me feel very strongly like there being pulled around by studio demands(most obviously for more standard Alien action)...

This is true for Alien Covenant.  Ridley Scott has made no bones in letting it be known that it was the studio who insisted that he include the traditional alien in the second prequel, whilst dialing back on the Engineers.  "They want aliens?  I'll give them fucking aliens", as his most scathing quote states.  However, there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Prometheus was anything other than the movie which Ridley Scott set out to make.  What there is however, is a bounty of evidence to suggest that it's exactly the movie he set out to make.  Ridley Scott is one of my favourite directors of all time, but that doesn't mean that I ignore factual evidence and create my own narrative out of thin air in order to excuse his bad creative choices.  Just accept that he made a bad Alien movie.  It's not exactly an anomaly for a talented artist to move past their peak and churn out mediocre art in their twilight years.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2021, 10:22:46 PM »
You must be confused. Ridley Scott definitely only directed one Alien film. Perhaps this Prometheus  was just a bad cheese dream or something.

On a related note, it's a shame that Blade Runner never got a sequel.

Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2021, 10:31:20 PM »
That’s a good list. I don’t personally rate The Hunger or Black Hawk Down, so Spy Game (a film i unaccountably love) would take one of their places in the top ten, along with... hey! You don’t like The Duellists, at all? That would probably be in my top three...

Cheers.

I get why The Hunger isn't for everyone and if I hadn't seen it at just the right age to be seduced by a combination of Bauhaus, Bowie, Susan Sarandon and the whole goth/vampire aesthetic, I probably wouldn't rate it as high. Gothstalgia, if you will.

It's been a while since I saw Black Hawk Down but I remember it being genuinely tense and exciting, but I can imagine it may not have aged that well, like so many of those early 00's action films which all had that yellowy brown hue to them.

Spy Game, I remember liking it but remember literally nothing about the plot! I will definitely revisit that one.

As for The Duellists, it's still on my To Watch list. It's been on there for nearly 30 years but never got around to it!

bgmnts

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2021, 10:39:37 PM »
Thought The Duelist was incredibly dull to be fair but I like Harvey Keitel in it.

Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2021, 10:53:41 PM »
I'd have American Gangster high up, really like that one (wonder if Tony hooked him up with Denzel?).

I'm also a fan of Prometheus, although more for sentimental reasons as it was one of my Dad's favourites and the last film we watched together *sniff*. But generally I don't mind the Alien prequels aside from them ruining the mystery of the space jockey, etc.

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2021, 12:00:05 AM »
Both of them had a reputation for getting engrossed in their work, but it was only Tony that really threw himself in at the deep end.

St_Eddie

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2021, 12:42:21 AM »
Both of them had a reputation for getting engrossed in their work, but it was only Tony that really threw himself in at the deep end.

I sincerely hope that you meant that unironically because if not, that's a joke made in incredibly poor taste.

bgmnts

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2021, 12:46:51 AM »
Actually, Enemy of the State is really, really good too.

mothman

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2021, 01:02:52 AM »
It seems that any given director has st least one film that really clicks with me, and not always the obvious ones. Tarantino, Jackie Brown. Nolan, The Prestige. And the Scotts, The Duellists and Spy Game respectively.

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Re: Ridley vs Tony
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2021, 01:23:12 AM »

I really liked Spy Game and forgot the plot as well.

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