Author Topic: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season  (Read 15122 times)

JamesTC

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #180 on: August 20, 2021, 07:41:36 PM »
Rewatching the opening to Season 3. Jimmy rips the tape off the wall and Chuck admonishes him and shows him how to so it carefully so as not to cause any damage. Metaphor!

Chuck worrying about Jimmy's nightlight burning down the house. Foreshadowing!

Now you put it that way I think you're absolutely right. Perhaps Jimmy is always "The Real Jimmy" but Saul Goodman is just Jimmy at the point where he's finally feeling totally comfortable in his own skin (as Gilligan and Gould have often described him). The influence of people around him and who he wants to impress (or doesn't) certainly have shaped him, whether it was having Marco in awe of him, winning Chuck's respect or getting into a relationship with Kim.

The fact that he wants Chuck to like and respect him is an interesting one. I was initially a little confused why Jimmy would put the whole cover up at risk by rushing into the copy place but clearly he prizes his brother's life over his own safety. I know it seems obvious that he would care for his brother but this is one element where he is a distance from Saul. At the moment, Jimmy isn't fully Saul simply because he is held back by Chuck and Kim. Well, just Kim now...

I'm now wondering if Kim "breaking bad" at the end of season 5 might tip her over into full-on Enabler Mode and make her very bad for Jimmy, pushing him closer to becoming Saul, rather than her leaving him being the thing that makes Saul become so very jaded and cynical. In any case I can't see Kim sticking by the man who sexually harasses poor Francesca (who ends up even more jaded than he is) and gets regular visits from his "chiropractor".

Saul is held back by him knowing that Kim will not accept him as he truly is. Perhaps she now enables Saul now that she is wiling to get down and dirty just like him. At this point, is there anything he could/would do personally that would drive her away? She even quite brazenly accepts him doctoring documents to get her Mesa Verde (a few arm punches aside). I still can't see anything but an outside influence keeping them apart for the Breaking Bad era.

I've been thinking about what might be a satisfying ending, character wise, for Better Call Saul. Breaking Bad ended with Walt being able to finally provide for his family (he told Skyler he did it all for himself so that she would use the lottery ticket to get a deal with the DEA). El Camino gave Jesse the standard happy ending which I think was deserved for him at that point.

What ending would be satisfying for Saul now? I am thinking prison myself. Though that might be a hard sell to some in the audience now who are more sympathetic to Jimmy/Saul/Gene and even see him as the hero. Saul needs to realise that his actions do have consequences.

Yes, that bit's horrible as well, and again maybe not too far removed from the kind of behaviour we'd expect from Saul. I'm thinking Howard's "Do you know who else really knew Jimmy? Chuck" comment might be another portentous one. Kim may be aware of Jimmy's past as a conman, and she may know about the Chicago Sunroof incident, but I bet What Happened In Cicero Stayed In Cicero.

The funny thing is even Chuck didn't know Jimmy. When Chuck speaks to Kim just before she leaves HHM, he warns her off Jimmy but adds that he does have a good heart. I think even Chuck underestimated what a heartless bastard Jimmy could really be.

Blue Jam

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #181 on: August 21, 2021, 12:16:57 PM »
Another great post JTC. I'm thinking prison too, Jimmy could stop being paranoid and ironically would have a freedom of sorts, out of the gilded cage that is his life in Nebraska and free to be himself. Maybe he could deal drop phones or offer legal advice in return for favours- do lawyers fare better than cops in prison? I can imagine their skillset comes in quite handy. It could be like the end of The Producers.

Also Walt died, Jesse escaped and may yet get a shot at redemption, surely Jimmy's fate will have to be something different? After death and redemption what other option is there but prison?

Again, I am probably just going to be proven completely wrong here... meanwhile, here's a season 6 update from Tony Dalton:

Quote
Dalton gave a status update in a conversation with the website Quién. In the interview, translated from Spanish, the actor mentioned that he’d recently spoke to Odenkirk and found him in good spirits.

“He already wants to go back to work,” he said. “But well, until his doctors and his wife let him basically, he won’t be able to return, but I hope he will be back soon.”

As far as where filming stands, Dalton explained, “Right now we are filming all the scenes he is not in and waiting until he is given the green light to return to work, but the truth is despite everything this business entails, the most important thing is that he is healthy … I mean, it’s someone’s life, nothing is more important.”

... and from the Quien article (via Google Translate):

Quote
A couple of weeks ago, Bob Odenkirk was hospitalized after fainting on the set of the Better Call Saul series . At that time, the 58-year-old actor was filming a scene in the series with actor Tony Dalton , in New Mexico, in the United States, when he collapsed.

"I was next to him and it was very strong, poor truth, I say he had a heart attack. I had never seen that and much less on a Hollywood set, on the forum, the people and everything. But it's okay, He is already at home with his family, "added Tony.

Lalo survives until at least episode eight then, good news all round!

Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #182 on: August 21, 2021, 12:24:43 PM »
Quote
Breaking Bad ended with Walt being able to finally provide for his family (he told Skyler he did it all for himself so that she would use the lottery ticket to get a deal with the DEA). 

I always thought Walt was telling himself he was doing it to provide for his family (and that it started that way) while in reality he was only in it for himself. Wasnt there a point in BB where he could step away with enough money and decided not to because he didnt want to go back to his ordinary life or am I remembering this wrong? Been a while since I saw BB.

JamesTC

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #183 on: August 21, 2021, 01:19:30 PM »
I always thought Walt was telling himself he was doing it to provide for his family (and that it started that way) while in reality he was only in it for himself. Wasnt there a point in BB where he could step away with enough money and decided not to because he didnt want to go back to his ordinary life or am I remembering this wrong? Been a while since I saw BB.

No, you aren't remembering wrong. After the train job, he could have pulled out and I think Jesse did point out to him that he had more money than he needed. Maybe this is hard to square.

For me, Walt is a victim of toxic masculinity. He is motivated by the need to be the one who provides for his family. His ego is hurt most when people want to either give him charity or when Skyler wants to step in and help. He eventually agrees to the money laundering through the Charity because at least he knows he provided for the family even if others don't. Walt knows he did his duty as a man.

In the second to last episode, he desperately tried to get something to his family whilst trying to convince the DEA that Skyler is blameless. Walt Jr refuses the money and Saul tells him that the DEA would still go for Skyler and plants the idea in his head to use the lottery ticket as a bargaining chip.

Walt gives himself up to the DEA when he realises his family no longer want his help. He only then leaves when he realises he has one final chance to provide and protect his family.  He managed to get the money to Walt Jr but Skyler refuses to use the ticket as a bargaining chip. When Walt tells Skyler that he did it all for himself rather than the family he is manipulating her to use the ticket to save herself.

JamesTC

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #184 on: August 21, 2021, 01:30:56 PM »
Another great post JTC. I'm thinking prison too, Jimmy could stop being paranoid and ironically would have a freedom of sorts, out of the gilded cage that is his life in Nebraska and free to be himself. Maybe he could deal drop phones or offer legal advice in return for favours- do lawyers fare better than cops in prison? I can imagine their skillset comes in quite handy. It could be like the end of The Producers.

Also Walt died, Jesse escaped and may yet get a shot at redemption, surely Jimmy's fate will have to be something different? After death and redemption what other option is there but prison?

I hadn't even thought of what he would do in prison. Him using his skills to be a success in prison is a great idea. A great contrast to his safe but boring fate as Gene.

Blue Jam

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #185 on: August 21, 2021, 01:45:03 PM »
He'd get to wear a lairy orange jumpsuit as well. Much more to his tastes than the muted tones of a Cinnabon uniform. He could also use the time to write a scandalous memoir for the True Crime section.

...but no, I am probably very wrong.

JamesTC

  • Helms calls for donut tax
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #186 on: August 21, 2021, 07:14:35 PM »
Forgot just how brilliant the trial episode is.

Then I feel sympathy for Jimmy when he breaks down in the insurance office and it turns out it is all just a ploy to get Chuck to lose his license to practice. Jimmy keeps manipulating the audience just as much as he manipulates the people around him.

Rev+

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #187 on: August 22, 2021, 12:02:33 AM »
I really can't see him ending up in prison, just because - unless there's something major that he's done and I've forgotten - he'd likely only get a very short stretch, which isn't a satisfying way to leave the character.  Bent lawyers tend not to go to prison, because they're technically only adjacent to actual crimes.

The tingle I got from the last series, and this is maybe informed by Robert Forster's death and Gene's assertion that he'd handle disappearing again 'his way', is that he'll set up shop in a similar manner.  With Chuck it was more than wanting the admiration of his brother, it was wanting to emulate someone he knew was good at what he did.  I can see the series ending the same way - some sort of cover location like a spa, with his main business being the guy you go to if you want to disappear.

Mister Six

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #188 on: August 22, 2021, 12:32:57 AM »
I'm well behind on this and ought to catch up. Which season ended with his brother kicking at a lamp?

JamesTC

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #189 on: August 22, 2021, 12:40:30 AM »
I'm well behind on this and ought to catch up. Which season ended with his brother kicking at a lamp?

Season 3.

Mister Six

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #190 on: August 22, 2021, 01:16:57 PM »
Ta!

Blue Jam

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #191 on: August 22, 2021, 03:27:32 PM »
I really can't see him ending up in prison, just because - unless there's something major that he's done and I've forgotten - he'd likely only get a very short stretch, which isn't a satisfying way to leave the character.  Bent lawyers tend not to go to prison, because they're technically only adjacent to actual crimes.

He laundered money for a major drug kingpin and is an accessory to several murders, not to mention all the things he may have done for his other criminal clients. Remember he fled after realising Huell was in custody and presumably about to spill the beans on his criminal empire in a plea deal.

Also, American justice innit. This is a world where Tuco gets five years for assault and the Kettlemans could have got 30 years each for embezzlement- and $1.6 million was a fraction of what Walt made.

Incidentally, Eric C Conn, the lawyer with probably the strongest claim to the title of "The Real-Life Saul Goodman", is currently doing a 27-year stretch for social security fraud (extended from 12 years for doing his own Ed The Disappearer) and he didn't even send anyone to Belize:

https://www.oxygen.com/true-crime-buzz/where-is-eric-c-conn-now-american-greed-biggest-cons-recap

One of his ads:

https://youtu.be/qXFczrh8Tzc

"Gene" is meant to be in his early 50s isn't he? Very likely to die in prison if he ever gets caught then.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2021, 03:37:38 PM by Blue Jam »

JamesTC

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #192 on: August 23, 2021, 04:37:16 PM »
In the flash forward in Season 4 to Saul and Francesca shredding in his office, Saul hand's Francesca a card with an attorney on and says to tell them "Jimmy sent you". Is that supposed to make us think it is Kim? It might just be a throwaway line that we aren't supposed to think much of but I can't help but think it is pointed that he specifies "Jimmy" rather than "Saul".

Blue Jam

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #193 on: August 24, 2021, 02:48:52 PM »
Then I feel sympathy for Jimmy when he breaks down in the insurance office and it turns out it is all just a ploy to get Chuck to lose his license to practice. Jimmy keeps manipulating the audience just as much as he manipulates the people around him.

Cracking bit of eye-acting, that. The way Jimmy's real tears turn into crocodile tears when he gets onto the subject of Chuck, and then as he leaves the office the tears in his eyes give way to rage, and then to a wicked glint with that chilling little smirk of victory. Mesmerising.

For me, Walt is a victim of toxic masculinity. He is motivated by the need to be the one who provides for his family. His ego is hurt most when people want to either give him charity or when Skyler wants to step in and help. He eventually agrees to the money laundering through the Charity because at least he knows he provided for the family even if others don't. Walt knows he did his duty as a man.

I noticed a lot of that on my recent rewatch. Lots of little things like Walt telling Jesse to pull the cord on the generator "properly, not like a girl" as well as him getting angry at Walt Jr. for looking up to his more macho Uncle Hank and then punishing him for it by letting him drink himself sick.

Jimmy's a bit of a contrast there- I read this recently:

https://www.bustle.com/p/how-better-call-sauls-kim-became-unintentional-feminist-hero-according-to-rhea-seehorn-49427

Quote from: Racy Horn
"I'm very much more the stereotypical 'man' as far as the relationship roles," Seehorn says about Kim. "Jimmy is more emotional, more reactive, wants to talk everything out, and thinks everything is personal and Kim's very project-oriented. Very just, 'Slow it down, here's the problem, here's the solution' kind of thing."... ..."[Viewers] believe that this 10-year love and foundation of a friendship and romantic relationship is there, partially because the characters are allowed to argue. And you don't always see a woman being allowed to just be mad and leave the room. Or not make things palatable for the man and I do get to do that." Seehorn also says that Jimmy and Kim's foundation is "not so shakeable that she can't say, 'I'm working, can you just get out of my way?' And it actually makes our hero/antihero smarter and cooler that he loves a woman like that."

You can't imagine Skyler saying to Walt "You don't save me. I save me." and Walt being totally okay with that, can you? Never mind admiring and respecting and loving her for it. Walt and Jimmy are such great foils to one another. Skyler and Kim too.

Blue Jam

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #194 on: August 24, 2021, 03:03:54 PM »
[Walt] getting angry at Walt Jr. for looking up to his more macho Uncle Hank and then punishing him for it by letting him drink himself sick.

Further to this I love the bit where Saul visits the carwash and Walt Jr. is all "Wow! You're the guy on our billboard!" and as well as being angry at Saul for showing up you can imagine him thinking "Oh FFS son, don't get starstruck by that seedy little man, don't encourage him". Great eye-acting there too,  just a great mix of disappointment in his son and resentment at him once again looking up to someone other than his dad.

Walt's reactions to Saul's sleazy remarks always cracked me up:

https://youtu.be/lfyQWQokoqE?t=38

and of course:

https://youtu.be/0yr-KJWLTUU?t=11
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 03:17:01 PM by Blue Jam »

JamesTC

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #195 on: August 24, 2021, 07:32:15 PM »
Kim sees right through Saul's bullshit in a way that nobody else does. Chuck apparently knew Jimmy better than anybody else but he didn't see much of his antics coming.

Just watched Kim raging against Mr Acker for not playing by the rules. She is arguing against everything that Saul represents yet she continues to enable him and stick by him. It is hinted at in Season 5 that Kim is an Adult Child of an Alcoholic which Rhea Seahorn has said she saw from her very first episode (Rhea's father was an alcoholic). She sticks by Saul in an act of unconscious self harm. After Chuck reveals what Jimmy did to the Mesa Verde files is one of the few times she lashes out at Jimmy.

I wonder if Saul sees a challenge in Kim. Somebody who isn't as easily manipulated, even if much of the time she doesn't need to be manipulated as she goes along with his destructive behaviour.


Blue Jam

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #196 on: August 28, 2021, 09:31:47 PM »
Kim sees right through Saul's bullshit in a way that nobody else does. Chuck apparently knew Jimmy better than anybody else but he didn't see much of his antics coming.

He can still fool her on occasion, like the time she was moved to tears at his Bar reinstatement hearing because she hadn't realised his emotional tribute to his brother was just an act. She also didn't realise he was making a video libeling Mesa Verde while it was going on all around her at the nail salon. She definitely has a better bullshit-detector than every other character though, and now they've promised to always be truthful to one another it may be what he doesn't tell her that's important. Like him not mentioning the shoot-out in the desert and her finding out by seeing the bullet hole in the coffee mug.

Quote
Just watched Kim raging against Mr Acker for not playing by the rules. She is arguing against everything that Saul represents yet she continues to enable him and stick by him.

...but Kim's on Mr Acker's side there isn't she? She may sound angry and full of conviction while setting out Mesa Verde's position but her heart isn't in it, and we see her getting increasingly bored with the job throughout season 5 before she quits in the final episode.

To be fair I was a bit confused by that subplot at first, thinking Kim had roped in Jimmy to make sure Acker lost the case, it took me a while to realise she actually wanted Mesa Verde to lose. Ultimately I think she was conflicted over her pro bono and corporate work- she enjoys the pro bono cases because she wants to help out the little guy, but in her role with Mesa Verde she has to fuck over the little guy, and that's against everything she stands for, because she's been the little guy, having been evicted from several homes herself. Something had to give.

Quote
It is hinted at in Season 5 that Kim is an Adult Child of an Alcoholic which Rhea Seahorn has said she saw from her very first episode (Rhea's father was an alcoholic). She sticks by Saul in an act of unconscious self harm. After Chuck reveals what Jimmy did to the Mesa Verde files is one of the few times she lashes out at Jimmy.

I didn't know that, that's very interesting- and that's something Rhea and Bob have in common (and I think David Cross also had a neglectful father but for other reasons). Interesting that we see Kim hitting the bottle when stressed (that episode where we meet her mother also has bookends, Kim's mother drink-driving and Kim herself drinking wine at home) and there's also the implication that Gene may be self-medicating when he pours himself that very generous Rusty Nail in the very first episode. I wonder if there's a bit of an actor-inspired element with both characters, we all know how much Vince Gilligan loves to collaborate with his cast.

Quote
I wonder if Saul sees a challenge in Kim. Somebody who isn't as easily manipulated, even if much of the time she doesn't need to be manipulated as she goes along with his destructive behaviour.

That's a really great point. He had no respect for his father, seeing him being manipulated by every grifter in town, he has no respect for any of the marks he scams with Kim or Marco, and he had no respect for Mr Neff and his assistant, just seeing them as two more marks he had manipulated into giving him a job. And then there's those poor women who thought he was Kevin Costner... but he respects Kim. She's no mark. She's more like him- a shark, not a sheep, more on his level. Whereas Walter White probably wished Skyler was more of a sheep and her ability to see right through him just made him angry.

Blue Jam

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #197 on: September 04, 2021, 01:01:08 PM »
Apologies if this is in the wrong place but I've just started watching this show (obviously I quickly scrolled past all this season 6 talk). I'm onto episode 9 of season one, and have been meaning to post here with each passing ep, to ask if and when the show improves...

Alright AP, did you watch Marco then? What did you think? ;)

Few filming updates: Thomas Schnauz has confirmed that they are making "steady but slow" progress with filming and working hard on the editing and post-production. Splitting season 6 into two parts hasn't been completely ruled out, but I know Peter Gould has said he really didn't want that to happen. What with them filming all the Bob-less bits instead of halting production completely it sounds like they're going for minimal delay and trying to avoid having a Season 6A and 6B:

https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/better-call-saul-season-6-update/

It's also been confirmed that The Bob is back in town. Here's he is in The BCS House, doing a quick plug for the New Mexico Bowl (via the BCS subreddit)- POSSIBLE SLIGHT SPOILER WARNING:

https://twitter.com/NMBowl/status/1433822647520006153

Someone's been at the Just For Men... his hair is now closer to the colour it was in BrBa. Maybe the combover has come out of storage and his hair's been dyed to match? They were on episode 8 when he collapsed, maybe we're getting a time-jump or a montage?

Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #198 on: September 06, 2021, 06:11:54 PM »
Interesting moment on this Breaking Bad DVD episode commentary that was uploaded to YouTube last week[1]. Jonathan Banks makes an early suggestion (around 14:40 in) about his family backstory that ended up becoming cannon in BCS.

https://youtu.be/VF4d5CdhfpA?t=880
 1. possibly only interesting to Blue Jam


Blue Jam

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #200 on: September 08, 2021, 03:53:16 PM »
*scrutinises wig*

Yaaaaaaay! Great news. I hope Vince and Peter aren't working him too hard.

Blue Jam

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #201 on: September 24, 2021, 10:26:29 AM »
As if BCS S6 wasn't enough of a troubled production already, it looks like the second IATSE strike could be going ahead:

https://deadline.com/2021/09/iatse-second-strike-seeks-separate-authorization-locals-across-us-1234842729/

BCS costume designer Jennifer Bryan has made some badges in solidarity:



...and here's one resting on the episode 9 clapperboard:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CULwWOpLez6/?hl=en

After the Writers' Strike affected season 1 of BB I guess these would be fitting bookends. *sigh* - but all power to the union. Hope their (more than reasonable) demands are met soon!
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 10:42:59 AM by Blue Jam »

mothman

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #202 on: September 24, 2021, 11:36:57 AM »
For some reason I’ve been reminded of how Moonlighting dealt with the 1988 writers’ strike.

https://youtu.be/8gr5xEvAeUo

Blue Jam

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #203 on: September 25, 2021, 10:29:11 AM »
Quote
on Friday night, Odenkirk threw out the ceremonial first pitch and sang the seventh-inning stretch — technically the fifth-inning stretch during a doubleheader — at the Chicago Cubs’ game against the St. Louis Cardinals at Wrigley Field.

Awww, this is nice. I think- I need Ferris to translate:

https://thecomeback.com/mlb/bob-odenkirk-throws-out-first-pitch-sings-the-stretch-at-cubs-game.html

Nice to see him in such good spirits and to hear his beautiful singing voice... anyway, bit of a break from filming ahead of the impending strike?

Blue Jam

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JamesTC

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #205 on: October 06, 2021, 10:37:59 AM »
So production is still continuing right now. The vote was to allow a strike if talks didn't continue, I've read. Thankfully they've gone back to the table.

Hopefully the season is finished and the negotiations are successful.

Blue Jam

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #206 on: October 06, 2021, 11:48:59 AM »
Yes, as much as I'm dying to see how the series ends, I support the union here.

Thread

Various BCS cast and crew peeps have also spoken up in solidarity with IATSE. Vince Gilligan may come across as the nicest boss in the world but they're not all like him.

Blue Jam

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #207 on: October 17, 2021, 11:30:30 AM »
Strike averted, phew.

In other news there have been lots of reports of extensive filming at Cottonwood Mall, ABQ, including one pic where the Cinnabon set (the real store closed a few years back so they now have to recreate it) can be seen, along with someone walking round in a Cinnabon uniform:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CVEwD1VLJ-j/?hl=en

Michelle MacLaren can also be seen directing this one (she previously directed "Mijo" and "Breathe"), and as Thomas Schnauz will be directing episode 11 it looks like they're up to episode 10. In any case it looks like we'll be getting a lot more Gene scenes, or maybe one or more entire gene episodes. I've seen one person in the Instagram thread suggest a Gene scene opening every episode which could also work. In any case, squeeeeeee!

Twit 2

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #208 on: October 17, 2021, 12:04:26 PM »
Christ, I hope my lovely Kim makes it to the end alive.

mothman

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #209 on: October 17, 2021, 01:06:05 PM »
I know we’ve discussed before what exactly Jimmy/Saul/Gene was running from (back on page 2) but I’m now wondering if Kim becomes the Cartel’s lawyer. Maybe she’d get into doing it with the best of motives - it’d really allow her to do the pro bono work she wanted to; she might even think doing it would get Jimmy off the hook as she’s a much better and more ruthless lawyer than he is. But then maybe they break up and her attitude towards him is less tolerant. It’d be a hell of a twist if the one thing Gene is really running from is… KIM!

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