Author Topic: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season  (Read 12840 times)

Blue Jam

  • Always enter your shoes before wearing them.
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2021, 07:45:40 PM »


Wouldn't

Bit o' French toast in there as well. Why the fuck do Americans like French toast so much? Even the French aren't that arsed about it. It's eggy bread with sugar. Eggy bread for people who are too childish for eggy bread.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2021, 07:59:29 PM by Blue Jam »

Dex Sawash

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2021, 08:53:45 PM »
I don't like real french toast much but those frozen sticks are a great way to consume pancake syrup without resorting to drinking it straight out of Mrs Butterworth's head.

Blue Jam

  • Always enter your shoes before wearing them.
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2021, 06:25:04 PM »
Some slightly spoilery news: It looks like the BCS film crew has been spotted at the location of Saul's strip-mall office, preparing it to look as it did in BrBa:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNS3tIOFzbk/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNS4l-hlXPM/

No sightings of the inflatable Statue of Liberty have been reported yet.

Good instagram account if you like this sort of thing:

https://www.instagram.com/all_about_saul/

mothman

  • I don't know why
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2021, 11:42:27 PM »
Right now I’m rewatching BB with my wife, who’s seeing it for the first time and is hooked. Coupla days over the weekend, we cleared six large, yo. I mean, that is to say, we watched six episodes... Bitch!

She’s taken to it much more than I expected. So I’m really unsure how she’ll find BCS. Our eldest also binged BB recently but couldn’t get into BCS at all, she said she found it really boring. And I think we all admit, it did start pretty slow. How can I sell it to them?

Blue Jam

  • Always enter your shoes before wearing them.
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2021, 11:55:10 PM »
Heh, it's the other way round in our house. Mr Jam finds BB "a bit laboured" and BCS "a much wittier show". And I agree with him!

Do your family like Mr. Show or Spinal Tap? Or The Big Lebowski? Mr Jam also reckons the humour in BCS is "very Big Lebowski" and I agree with him there too.

For me it also helps that the overall premise of BCS isn't utterly ludicrous and that the main character isn't a pathologically prideful sociopath, and that all the other characters are actually properly fleshed out and complex and have more than a single character trait like just really really liking breakfast (for example). Those arguments probably aren't going to convince BB-preferers though.

Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2021, 12:06:19 AM »
Heh, it's the other way round in our house. Mr Jam finds BB "a bit laboured" and BCS "a much wittier show". And I agree with him!

Do your family like Mr. Show or Spinal Tap? Or The Big Lebowski? Mr Jam also reckons the humour in BCS is "very Big Lebowski" and I agree with him there too.

For me it also helps that the overall premise of BCS isn't utterly ludicrous and that the main character isn't a pathologically prideful sociopath, and that all the other characters are actually properly fleshed out and complex and have more than a single character trait like just really really liking breakfast (for example). Those arguments probably aren't going to convince BB-preferers though.
I had respect for you before this post. Fucking disgrace.

mothman

  • I don't know why
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2021, 12:35:52 AM »
Funnily enough, my wife has never seen The Big Lebowski. No, I don’t know how this could have happened either. I am going to have very strong words with the intermediary who arranged our marriage.

Blue Jam

  • Always enter your shoes before wearing them.
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2021, 12:39:34 AM »
Mr Jam's favourite film is The Big Lebowski. I chose well.

Gonna watch The Jesus Rolls soon. It might be terrible but I don't care, it has to be done.

Seen this?

https://www.reddit.com/r/betterCallSaul/comments/anbacz/the_big_lebowski_references_in_better_call_saul_a/

I had respect for you before this post. Fucking disgrace.

Heheheh ;) Don't get me wrong, I like BrBa (and I'm actually halfway through a rewatch myself right now) but it is daft. Quite enjoyably and wonderfully daft I'll grant you.

Blue Jam

  • Always enter your shoes before wearing them.
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2021, 12:17:44 PM »
Rhea Seehorn is in new haunted house flick Things Heard & Seen, streaming on Netflix a week from now:

https://youtu.be/HCAaonjgDEA

Not a big horror fan, might watch to see The Horn doing her thing though. Hopefully this is the start of her getting cast in lots and lots and lots of things.

Dex Sawash

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Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2021, 01:01:52 PM »
Racy's going to be the baddie, isn't she?

Blue Jam

  • Always enter your shoes before wearing them.
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2021, 10:14:22 AM »
Another very spoilery pic from filming:

https://i.redd.it/g9c3b91liuu61.jpg

Tharrr she blows! Also is that Lavell Crawford plus the white Cadillac out in front?

Blue Jam

  • Always enter your shoes before wearing them.
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2021, 06:04:49 PM »
Looks like someone's going to be dropping their autobiography around the time season 6 airs- no spoilers please Bob:

https://mobile.twitter.com/mrbobodenkirk/status/1387441487567335432

(good title!)

Blue Jam

  • Always enter your shoes before wearing them.
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2021, 10:47:27 AM »
Update from Thomas Schnauz:



https://mobile.twitter.com/TomSchnauz/status/1407826098637791232

Sounds like they're approaching the halfway point then.

In slightly related news I recently started watching Superstore season 1 and was delighted to spot the inventor of Tony The Toilet Buddy as a customer in episode 7. Buying a coffee machine rather than a creepy talking sex toilet, sadly

Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2021, 02:29:28 PM »
I had respect for you before this post. Fucking disgrace.

I know you’re joking, but I honestly don’t get this either. Blue Jam writes terrifically about all manner of things, but I can’t ever get past this idea that Better Call Saul is in anyway superior to Breaking Bad. It’s just impossible for me to imagine people thinking that. Is is just me that finds BCS utterly pedestrian and forgettable?

Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2021, 03:09:56 PM »
I feel the same. The chemistry between Walt and Jesse is what makes Breaking Bad what it is, that and Cranston's incredible performance, specifically the way that he can convey all the different facets of Walt's bullshittery.

I love Mr. Show and Bob Odenkirk but Saul has never been a particularly funny character to me. I unfairly compare him to Lionel Hutz in my mind, but the only properly funny laugh out line I can remember from him is the line about convincing himself he looked like Kevin Costner. I much preferred the character in his season 2 appearances, when there was a bit more of a sinister edge to him.

Better Call Saul to me feels, as mr. logic says, pretty pedestrian compared to BB. It's written cleverly, in terms of the mechanics of some of the plotting, but I don't feel anything from it and have no desire to rewatch.

The supporting cast of both BB and Saul leave a lot to be desired, but I still think Saul's is much worse by a wide margin, not least because Gus and Mike were caricatures to begin with, and they're still the two standouts after Saul / Jimmy himself.

Blue Jam

  • Always enter your shoes before wearing them.
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2021, 05:10:13 PM »
I guess I just prefer the tragic Jimmy/Gene to the comedic Saul... I love Mr. Show too but I think if you come to BCS hoping for The Shouty One From Off Mr. Show to make lots of witty quips you're going to be disappointed. Nah, give me a load of utterly bleak and heartbreaking tragedy pls.

That said, I got Mr Jam into it when he caught a bit and remarked "I might have to start watching this, it's a bit Big Lebowski" and then he did, and he declared it a much wittier show than Breaking Bad, and I have to agree. It's comedic in a different way from having one comic relief character breeze in occasionally to deliver a few one-liners.

I had my doubts about BCS after finishing BB. I'll admit I hadn't paid that much attention to Saul and wasn't sure how the comic relief character played by a comedian could possibly work as a lead character, but I have just finished a rewatch of BB and the character was a lot more complex than I remembered. I could see how a few seeds for BCS had been sewn- for example, how the Saul Goodman persona is a double-edged sword which leads people to underestimate him instead of figuring out that he's a criminal mastermind, but it also means he struggles to get respect from his clients, who can't take him entirely seriously and are unfortunately "immune to good advice"- and then ignore his advice at their peril, before they come crawling back for an I Told You So. He's an unlikely "Only Sane Man" character.

I was also surprised to find myself really enjoying Saul's relationship with Skyler as I hadn't remembered their interactions much at all. She finds him utterly repellent and will happily let him know, and her whole attitude is "Urggghh, just sort this out so I can get out of your tacky little office and take a shower, you sleazy little man". Then when her bright idea to use her feminine wiles to make Ted pay his IRS bill backfires, Saul has another I Told You So moment when he talks about her having "rose-coloured glasses" for Ted. It's like he's telling her "You think I'm sleazy? I'm not the one who fucked Ted, pal". Or perhaps "Come come Mrs White, you derive as much pleasure from sleazing as I do".

Of course he knows about the whole I Fucked Ted scenario because Walt told him, because he's the only person Walt trusts enough to discuss personal issues with and he treats him a bit like a therapist. A bit like Lalo trusting him ahead of his family? To paraphrase Kim, you're in trouble if you trust Saul Goodman above your own family.

Never got the Skyler hate, still don't get it now. I also really liked the relationship between Skyler and Marie, especially the way Marie knows exactly how to push her buttons. And little things like Marie wearing a skimpy outfit to be the centre of attention at Walt's birthday party, and dressing up for the local news crew.

Another thing that really surprised me is how I found Jesse much less likeable than before. I know people often have that reaction to Walt on a rewatch, finding they start to dislike him earlier, but I think I noticed his sociopathic tendencies pretty early on the first time. Watching again, Jesse is naive and a bit adorable but I remember starting to really dislike him when he asked Andrea "What kind of a mother are you?" when she wanted to buy from him, and this was after "Peekaboo" when he got to see the effects of his criminal activity up close. I just found him a massive hypocrite then. Aaron Paul's great in the role of course but I found Jesse a lot less likeable on a rewatch. Yeah, he's great with children... not a good person really though is he? Easier to root for than Walt I guess.

I liked Hank a lot more than I did on my first watch. A character who seems pretty despicable and bigoted at first but goes through some proper character development and ends up being the closest thing the show has to a hero. Putting up a macho front while dealing with some major psychological trauma and eventually accepting that he just can't fight it forever.

The supporting cast of both BB and Saul leave a lot to be desired, but I still think Saul's is much worse by a wide margin, not least because Gus and Mike were caricatures to begin with, and they're still the two standouts after Saul / Jimmy himself.

Lalo is a fantastic villain, a properly charismatic psychopath. Kim is one of my favourite characters in anything ever. And more Mike is always welcome.

Quote
I feel the same. The chemistry between Walt and Jesse is what makes Breaking Bad what it is, that and Cranston's incredible performance specifically the way that he can convey all the different facets of Walt's bullshittery.

...and I find it incredible that the lead role in BCS is essentially three different characters, all played brilliantly. I love the relationship between Chuck and Jimmy too, more great acting and chemistry to the point where it's all a bit too real for me at times.

Bryan Cranston's performance is phenomenal though, I can't argue with that. I sat through all of Your Honor purely because he was in it. I say "sat through"- actually I really enjoyed it. Cransto was the main redeeming feature, but that's a pretty big redeeming feature. If you enjoyed him in BB I'd recommend it.

Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2021, 05:21:40 PM »
I actually forgot about Lalo, he is pretty great.

I agree with you on Jesse too, and while BB was airing I got into a few arguments online where I felt like the audience (and the show itself) disproportionately blames Walt for everything that transpires, when Jesse is a grown man who was already a drug dealer and knows the risks before the series even starts. But I don't want to open that can of worms again. (Not making excuses for Walt, as I think people always think when I say this, but it's a bit more complicated than Jesse = good and Walt = bad).

Blue Jam

  • Always enter your shoes before wearing them.
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2021, 05:27:07 PM »
Yes, Jesse is certainly a lot nicer than Walt, but is he a good man? Compared to Walt, I guess.

Also I guess they have that "We're not so different, you and I" dynamic going on- they're both bright and good at chemistry and could have done well if only Jesse had applied himself, and Walt had continued to apply himself, and they both have loving and supportive and generous families and friends, and reject that love and support and generosity. Walt rejected Gretchen's offer of financial help with a (magnificently nasty) "Fuck you", Jesse got a free house and built a meth lab in the basement.

I also like the way BB and BCS work together because Jimmy and Walt are such great foils to one another. There's the obvious thing of Walt "breaking bad" and Jimmy's (ultimately doomed) attempt to "break good", but there's more than that. Walt has a supportive family who rally round him and want him to pull through, Jimmy had a brother who actively sabotaged him and now all his immediate family and his childhood best friend are dead, Walt's a cold and ruthless sociopath, Jimmy is emotional and gets very upset when his actions hurt Kim, Walt is a violent murderer, Jimmy doesn't do fighting and is terrified of guns etc. Watching one series makes the other more enjoyable.

Vince Gilligan does love his foils, doesn't he?

Blue Jam

  • Always enter your shoes before wearing them.
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2021, 12:28:40 PM »
On the subject of Bryan Cranston recommendations, I love his appearance in Curb. Obviously The Bob as "Porno Gil" is the stuff of legend but the episode where Cransto is giving Larry David some world-class stink-eye absolutely floors me:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7z1o64?start=1300

Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #49 on: July 02, 2021, 12:18:27 PM »
This is probably an obvious thing to say but how BCS is remembered will be almost entirely dependant on how the final season shapes up.

Game of Thrones was widely regarded as one of if not the greatest series of all time at around season six whereas now you'll be hard pushed to find anyone who wants to re-watch it all, knowing how it ends. I remember some great moments but knowing how it all ends I don't think any of those moments will land second time round.

Breaking Bad is a rare occasion of a series getting better with every season which is partly why it is held in such high regard. It is one of only two shows that I've watched start to finish 3 times (The Wire being the other).

If BCS ends with a bit of a damp squib then it will probably be remembered as the inferior spin off to Breaking Bad that was good in parts but probably not worth multiple re-watches. If the final season is anywhere close to being as good as the final season of Breaking Bad (and there's no reason why it wouldn't be with the people involved) then I think it will be seen as the slightly slower paced but equally brilliant spin off. As long as it ends well then I can't wait to re-watch it all and I wouldn't be surprised if at some point it joins BB and The Wire in the three-peat club.

I hope we get to see future Jimmy and I hope he has a relatively happy ending as I found him far more sympathetic and redeemable than Walt, but the series could also work equally well as a tragedy with Jimmy's past catching up with him and/or Kim dying. I think the latter is more likely but despite it being a prequel there is a lot of tension due to the possibility of the characters' endings going either way.

Edit: And Lalo is just as good as any of the antagonists in Breaking Bad and definitely better than the Nazis.

Blue Jam

  • Always enter your shoes before wearing them.
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #50 on: July 02, 2021, 01:56:32 PM »
I hope we get to see future Jimmy and I hope he has a relatively happy ending as I found him far more sympathetic and redeemable than Walt

This is a big part of it for me. One of the other big contrasts between Walt and Jimmy is that Walt has a big extended family who love him and are rooting for him, and even his ex-girlfriend and ex-best friend are all "No hard feelings- you want an indefinite sum from our billions to pay for your cancer treatment? Here, water under the bridge mate". Whereas Jimmy's parents are dead, his best mate is dead, his brother is actively trying to sabotage his career (before ending up dead) and his only friend in the world is Kim (whom he's going to lose, and who may also end up dead). Then there's things like getting roped into Cartel stuff not entirely willingly- while he's no saint, and while both Walt and Jimmy brought their struggles on themselves, Jimmy's possibly got a bit more of an excuse than Walt. I've just found it much easier to root for someone who has a good heart (as Chuck says), really not wanting him to lose it (but knowing he's doomed to lose it), than someone who endangered his family and friends all because he couldn't let go of his pride.

Interesting contrast with Jesse too. Jesse's portrayed as a sympathetic character because he gets on well with children and gets upset when they get hurt, but that also applies to Saul and Mike and we're definitely not supposed to see them as adorable.

I was reading a bit about BB lately and apparently Vince Gilligan was initially reluctant to cast Aaron Paul as Jesse because he thought he was much too pretty for the role. Do people have him down as a good guy because they're equating good looks with virtue? Maybe it's the innocent blue eyes ("Alright, I get it, he was dreamy"). I do wonder if Jesse would have been seen as more of a scumbag if the actor had been a bit more stereotypically scuzzy and evil-looking.

Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2021, 03:37:07 PM »
He's no saint and whilst he is technically an adult, people mature at different ages and he definitely seemed a bit naive as to the inevitability of how things would end up for him when dealing with people in that world. I was a bit of a state in my 20s so could relate to someone who seemed to have a good heart but was essentially a train wreck who rarely thought about how his actions would impact himself and others. Essentially he was a very human character, and I think that would have come through even if he looked like Skinny P.

Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2021, 04:34:38 PM »
I just want Kim to be OK at the end.

An tSaoi

  • The Prodigal Cunt
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2021, 07:01:56 PM »
Just to wade in on the BB vs BCS debate... I only watched the first season of BCS so I can't judge it overall, but it seems to me that BB has a better hook: a chemistry teacher who becomes a meth kingpin is an inspired, almost funny idea. It gives the show momentum, a sense of purpose, of escalation. A show about an already crooked lawyer who becomes an even more crooked lawyer doesn't really cut it for me. I know it's not meant to be the same show, but that might explain why it doesn't have quite the same cultural impact as BB.

mothman

  • I don't know why
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2021, 07:33:34 PM »
Thing is, I don’t think we know the full story behind why Jimmy/Saul decided to do a runner and become Gene. Who exactly is he running from? There’s never any suggestions he’s wanted or implicated in Walt’s or Jesse’s crimes. Nobody knew about Jesse’s confession tape except Hank and Gomey - and the Nazis, once they torture it out of Jesse, and then steal it. So its existence can’t be a factor in making him run. Nobody knows Jimmy was laundering money that we’re aware of.

Blue Jam

  • Always enter your shoes before wearing them.
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #55 on: July 02, 2021, 09:16:27 PM »
Thing is, I don’t think we know the full story behind why Jimmy/Saul decided to do a runner and become Gene. Who exactly is he running from? There’s never any suggestions he’s wanted or implicated in Walt’s or Jesse’s crimes. Nobody knew about Jesse’s confession tape except Hank and Gomey - and the Nazis, once they torture it out of Jesse, and then steal it. So its existence can’t be a factor in making him run. Nobody knows Jimmy was laundering money that we’re aware of.

Just did a rewatch and I think it's all there in that scene where he's talking to Walt outside the carwash. Walt asks him if he's wearing a bulletproof vest, and he says something like "Well, I'm feeling pretty vulnerable now my bodyguard has disappeared, where the hell is he?" and then the penny drops that Huell is with the DEA and probably about to grass him up. Even if there's no proof that he's a money launderer he's still an accessory to several murders and a massive meth cooking/dealing operation, and facing the rest of his life in prison if he doesn't call Ed the Disappearer and start a new life as a Cinnabon manager in Nebraska.

Just to wade in on the BB vs BCS debate... I only watched the first season of BCS so I can't judge it overall, but it seems to me that BB has a better hook: a chemistry teacher who becomes a meth kingpin is an inspired, almost funny idea

...also a pretty ludicrous (if immensely entertaining) idea, even if you haven't grown up with the NHS. Personally I'm more intrigued by a charcacter who has the gift of an off-the-scale level of charm and who could use that ability for good, or to at least do pretty well for himself, but who can't resist the easy pickings from turning to the dark side. As Kim says in season 5, "Shouldn't we use our powers for good?" before Jimmy asks if helping a wealthy banking firm get a slightly larger branch is really "good". It's that knife-edge he's on, the way he could have led a good life if only he had better judgement and wasn't so greedy, that makes it so heartbreaking to watch.

Blue Jam

  • Always enter your shoes before wearing them.
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #56 on: July 02, 2021, 09:42:53 PM »
Paging Ballad of Ballard Berkley: I have a feeling I am not making much sense and could do with someone more articulate to weigh in here.

An tSaoi

  • The Prodigal Cunt
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #57 on: July 02, 2021, 10:44:50 PM »
I'm more intrigued by a charcacter who has the gift of an off-the-scale level of charm and who could use that ability for good, or to at least do pretty well for himself, but who can't resist the easy pickings from turning to the dark side

nah chem teacher to meth kingpin is better soz

mothman

  • I don't know why
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2021, 08:43:50 AM »
Just did a rewatch and I think it's all there in that scene where he's talking to Walt outside the carwash. Walt asks him if he's wearing a bulletproof vest, and he says something like "Well, I'm feeling pretty vulnerable now my bodyguard has disappeared, where the hell is he?" and then the penny drops that Huell is with the DEA and probably about to grass him up. Even if there's no proof that he's a money launderer he's still an accessory to several murders and a massive meth cooking/dealing operation, and facing the rest of his life in prison if he doesn't call Ed the Disappearer and start a new life as a Cinnabon manager in Nebraska.

It’s true, we do tend to forget Huell (and assume the DEA did too, har har).



Finding himself still in the custody of the DEA, who have two senior agents missing and quite pissed off about, would be enough to overcome any residual loyalty to Saul, I guess. And if they get Kuby as well…[1]
 1. Though it also lands Skyler really, irrevocably in the shit, as both have extensive knowledge both of what she was up to herself, and her active involvement in what Walt was doing. I somehow don’t think she’d be living free with custody of her children in that scenario?

Blue Jam

  • Always enter your shoes before wearing them.
Re: Better Call Saul - the sixth (and final) season
« Reply #59 on: July 04, 2021, 02:29:33 PM »
It’s true, we do tend to forget Huell (and assume the DEA did too, har har).

Finding himself still in the custody of the DEA, who have two senior agents missing and quite pissed off about, would be enough to overcome any residual loyalty to Saul, I guess. And if they get Kuby as well…

[1]
 1. Though it also lands Skyler really, irrevocably in the shit, as both have extensive knowledge both of what she was up to herself, and her active involvement in what Walt was doing. I somehow don’t think she’d be living free with custody of her children in that scenario?

There's Walt's last phone call to Skyler, where he is really aggressive and abusive towards her and she's upset and confused, until there's another penny drop moment where she realises he knows the DEA are listening in and is trying to make her look like his unwitting pawn and give her a chance of getting off the hook. Though as you say, Huell and Kuby knew she was complicit in Walt's crimes. Not to mention the suspicious purchase of a big fuck-off carwash. Walt ignoring Saul's suggestion that Walt turn himself in for Skyler's sake was just the last bit of their "Only Sane Man/Immune To Good Advice" dynamic before they parted ways.

You've also just reminded me that I really don't give a fuck if Bill Burr returns.

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