Topic: I Would Rather Not Go, Back to the Office

[Cuellar]

I wonder what has prompted the head of strategy at the Canary Warf Group to say that

[Fambo Number Mive]

It says a lot about the BBC that they report such comments by one person, who has an obvious interest in people returning to their offices, as front page "news".

[dissolute ocelot]

to get your hair cut, to go and get a good coffee at lunchtime, and to do all the life admin things you can do in a city centre.

I'd love to see an analysis of this by income and age, because it seems aimed at those people who live in nice houses in suburbia and commute to prestigious jobs in the city centre. If you're working at a less glamorous job, a factory or distribution centre in an industrial park, your hair styling and life admin options are going to be more limited. And if you're rich you can probably drive somewhere on your lunch break anyway. Maybe there's a lot of people who go to a specific barber in EC2 and just haven't found someone who can cover their bald spot anywhere else.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Covid: 'People are tired of working from home'


Fuck you. Just, fuck you.

More reasonable than some of those interviewed but it is laughable how, hiding in plain sight, this is an interview with an owner of commercial property.

We owe you nothing mate.

I hope everyone here who is keen to continue some home working will put up some resistance when your bosses come calling.

[El Unicornio, mang]

"I think now people are really missing that opportunity to collaborate with NO and just see their friends in the office NO, to get your hair cut NO, to go and get a good coffee at lunchtime NO, and to do all the life admin things you can do in a city centre. NO"

NO

[flotemysost]

"I think now people are really missing that opportunity to collaborate with and just see their friends in the office, to get your hair cut, to go and get a good coffee at lunchtime, and to do all the life admin things you can do in a city centre."

I actually do miss all that stuff, but a) I can appreciate it's just possibly not a great idea to shunt people back into offices and rush-hour commutes en masse right this moment, and b) I don't think that just because I want something, everyone else has the exact same needs and circumstances.

Something tells me he doesn't actually give a fuck about what anyone wants.

Also this bit, to me, is baffling

"I think it is going to be more socially acceptable for people to take the occasional day working from home," he said.

"So it may well be that people have a desk at Canary Wharf but some people will choose to work at home one day a week or a couple of days a month and that's a good thing."

Maybe it's because I've already had things pretty cushy with my company's pre-covid approach to remote working, but to me, the above sounds like it would've been a reasonable setup for before the pandemic. Indeed, as mentioned in my previous post, that's how I and many of colleagues were working already before March 2020 - in fact, I was working from home the very day they told us we'd all be working from home indefinitely. (Because the toilet had exploded and I had be at home to let the plumber in. Simpler, happier times.)

This basically just shits all over anyone having any hope of moving somewhere where rent/living costs/childcare etc. are more affordable, if that's what they want. And "socially acceptable"? Fuck that. As I mentioned in my previous post, I'll always be incredibly grateful that my manager was so understanding about my mental health wobble and let me work from home as much as I needed to at that time. I can't imagine working in an environment where that's considered either a taboo, or a luxury that has to be earned.

[FerriswheelBueller]

Generally I think this will push institutional shifts towards home working, but in my experience a lot of flex-working is decided on a macro-level and it only takes a dinosaur boss to be workaholic or find it hard to work with their teenage kids in the house for them to foster a toxic culture of presenteeism amongst their team.

My old shop had a curmudgeon who hated the concept of working from home, so we were never allowed to do it (or rather, at a certain level of seniority we did it all the time but under the table). She was the only one who hated it but bad news, she runs the line of business so that’s everyone shafted.

Covid WFH was rolled out by panic-buying dozens of laptops on amazon for our specific departments (and hoping we could expense them) because right up until mid-March she was determined that we should continue to work from the office.

Incredible mindset. Seems bonkers looking back.

[Mobius]

I've gone into the office every single day of COVID because I spend too much time at home, but I only live 15 minutes away and don't pay for parking. I can't get into work mode at home, too many distractions. PS4, telly, weed, unemployed partner.

I hope people don't start coming back because I've enjoyed having my own little kingdom and as many fag breaks as I like.

[Better Midlands]

From the comments

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/07/homeworking-job-takes-over-life-office-grind-remote-working

Fuck off, Harris.

Everyone will have different experiences and there obviously are downsides to home working but when people are saving thousands a year on commuting and lunches, hours of time each day (which they can use productively to improve their wellbeing) and for people like me fortunate enough to work for an employers who keeps clear boundaries between ontime and downtime, home working is a total no-brainer.

We need to pushback and pushback hard on this because they are going to be coming for us from all angles in the media, property speculators, politicians, pundits. Everyone needs to be open and honest that they don't want to go back in full time and they can prove they don't need to either.

[icehaven]

If a lot more jobs became permanently or semi wfh it'd be interesting to see how it shaped career aspirations/workforce demographics etc. I had a few crappy office and call centre jobs years ago between Uni and starting what became my career, and I bet I'd have put up with jobs like that a lot longer if I'd been able to do them from home, and it might have steered me towards wfh posts only. I'd also probably live in rural Wales rather than in the grim West Midlands, so swings and roundabouts

[flotemysost]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/07/homeworking-job-takes-over-life-office-grind-remote-working

Fuck off, Harris.

Everyone will have different experiences and there obviously are downsides to home working but when people are saving thousands a year on commuting and lunches, hours of time each day (which they can use productively to improve their wellbeing) and for people like me fortunate enough to work for an employers who keeps clear boundaries between ontime and downtime, home working is a total no-brainer.

We need to pushback and pushback hard on this because they are going to be coming for us from all angles in the media, property speculators, politicians, pundits. Everyone needs to be open and honest that they don't want to go back in full time and they can prove they don't need to either.

I don't know, as much as I'm incredibly wary of anything like this being used as anti- remote working propaganda, I do think there are some valid points in there. Despite my company generally having a progressive attitude towards home working, I've definitely noticed an increase in last-minute meeting invitations at weird hours, with the unspoken assumption that "it's OK because everyone's always going to be at home anyway" (though I do wonder if this will change when lockdown restrictions are eased).

I've had to be quite firm in saying no to stuff and setting clear boundaries for the sake of my own mental health - which isn't too difficult for me, as I've been with the company for years and have good relationships with my colleagues - but for someone who's new to a role/company, junior, or naturally less confident, it might be easy to be taken advantage of. Not to mention the possibility of, for instance, someone struggling to make a sexist, unsympathetic boss appreciate childcare commitments (a problem which obviously existed before, and within the right hands could be helped hugely by remote working - but I think it's naive to pretend remote working alone will fix these problems/won't bring potential for its own issues and inequalities).

Also, as the article mentions, there are loads of people who haven't been lucky enough to relocate to an environment more suited to home working, or weren't lucky enough to already be living in such an environment when the first lockdown came in. Yes, people will have saved money on commuting - although I'm sure lots of workers had expensive commutes precisely because they live somewhere more suburban and relatively comfortable - so it's win-win for them to work remotely, but less so for someone living in smaller accommodation in a city already, but not earning/saving enough to have the option of upping sticks. A year of trying to work (during what has arguably already been an incredibly challenging, stressful time for many industries) from surroundings which are physically uncomfortable, crowded or distracting, must have taken an absolutely huge mental toll on many.

HOWEVER

If a lot more jobs became permanently or semi wfh it'd be interesting to see how it shaped career aspirations/workforce demographics etc. I had a few crappy office and call centre jobs years ago between Uni and starting what became my career, and I bet I'd have put up with jobs like that a lot longer if I'd been able to do them from home, and it might have steered me towards wfh posts only. I'd also probably live in rural Wales rather than in the grim West Midlands, so swings and roundabouts

I agree that this could hopefully be a really positive, progressive thing for diversifying the workforce, especially in industries which have traditionally been associated with privilege and nepotism - e.g. media and arts jobs where roles are traditionally oversubscribed, starting salaries are low, and companies are based in expensive city locations, meaning that the only people who can get a foot in the door are middle class twats like me. It needs to change. And there are also potentially huge implications too for people who would struggle physically or mentally to be in an office or do a crowded commute every day, who might have been otherwise shut out of the standard 9-5 culture.

I really hope that companies listen to their employees' varied needs and can work towards a fair and inclusive future.

[bgmnts]

It was hilarious when I think the guy in charge of canary wharf was saying how incredibly bad it is for people to be at home and not out in canary wharf spending spending spending spending spending and lining his pockets.

Cunt.

[Sebastian Cobb]

My old shop had a curmudgeon who hated the concept of working from home, so we were never allowed to do it (or rather, at a certain level of seniority we did it all the time but under the table). She was the only one who hated it but bad news, she runs the line of business so that’s everyone shafted.

Covid WFH was rolled out by panic-buying dozens of laptops on amazon for our specific departments (and hoping we could expense them) because right up until mid-March she was determined that we should continue to work from the office.

Incredible mindset. Seems bonkers looking back.

Yeah the office I'm in now also has some engineers/electronics guys who need to use the workshop and lab, but we just piss about on computers so moved home to give more essential people space to use alternate desks etc. At one point there was talk of us coming in for some days a week and there was a bit of a push for it despite none of us wanting it, it just seemed like needless presenteeism and I think the main thing that got it dropped were us giving the days to people who actually needed it mixed with our protestations that it was actually worse working distanced than working from home since we couldn't help each other by looking at each other's screens without breaking distance rules and had to use all the conference sharing tools to do it, while making a racket and distracting others at the same time.

I've worked in other places where communication was so poor and absenteeism so common that the boss would turn up (usually in the afternoon) and go 'is x in? y is asking about stuff but they're not online or in the holiday spreadsheet?'.

But even if a boss is a bit of a workaholic but not a shit that can have an effect on their team. I had one like that who would let you work from home or leave early if you asked, but because they were always there and working to the point of misery there was a bit of a case of them leading by example. Not me though, I'd stopped caring and was just swinging the lead at that point.

[Sebastian Cobb]

It was hilarious when I think the guy in charge of canary wharf was saying how incredibly bad it is for people to be at home and not out in canary wharf spending spending spending spending spending and lining his pockets.

Cunt.

What happens if everyone agrees to maliciously comply and go to work but also they make their own coffee and lunches?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I don't know, as much as I'm incredibly wary of anything like this being used as anti- remote working propaganda, I do think there are some valid points in there.

Oh there are, absolutely, home working is not a one-size-fits-all solution, but I think the article is unbalanced. I appreciate it is meant to be pointedly 'what about all these things you haven't thought of - aaaahhh', but along with a rising pressure in the media to pursue the same narrative, there's a responsibility to explore it honestly. Instead it comes across as lacking real balance and potentially hunting for clicks in its provocation, which is why it can eff off.

[Fambo Number Mive]

"People riffing off each other"

The chancellor has warned bosses that staff may quit if they are not allowed to work from the office as the UK emerges from lockdown.

Rishi Sunak told the Telegraph that employees would "vote with their feet" and could consider leaving for a rival if made to work from home full time.

A number of companies have announced plans to close offices prompting fears for city centres.

But now the chancellor has urged firms not to abandon the office altogether.

Mr Sunak told the newspaper that home working is no substitute for an office environment with "people riffing off each other".

"You can't beat the spontaneity, the team building, the culture that you create in a firm or an organisation from people actually spending physical time together," he said.

The chancellor argued that an office environment was particularly important for younger workers looking to understand how a company works.

He said it was "important that we try and get back to a good degree of that".

Although he acknowledged that hybrid working, using tools like Zoom to communicate, could work for some businesses.

His comments come amid concern from businesses that rely on busy cities that workers may spend more time at home.

Interesting Sunak isn't worried about people "voting with their feet" if they are made to come back to the office full-time.

Really he should say "give workers the choice of where they want to work and how they want to work, if possible" but he's probably only worried about businesses that rely on trade from commuters and people who rent out large office spaces.

If his government had done a better job of managing the pandemic, perhaps some people would feel more confident about going back to the office.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56535575

[Cuellar]

Get back into the office, onto buses, onto tubes, into Pret. That worked very well last time.

[mothman]

There are very good reasons why I can’t do my job from home. I wish I could but it’s just not possible. Social distancing measures at work (= shortage of desks) mean I get a desk four days a week and can choose to do what bits I can do at home, or go on a reserve list. Generally I choose the former but I had a situation where cunt colleagues were pass-agg’ing us to work five days putting others down on the list and trying to guilt us into doing that fifth day. I put a stop to that smartish.

So today I’m WFH. I’ve done a few emails and dialled into a meeting.  But that’s all I can do. I totally support less office working though. Be interesting to see what happens with those at my organisation who can do their jobs at home. The management are talking a sea change in how we work. Shame my part of the business is unlikely to.

MrsMoth has been WFH for years so was well set up last year... to keep working when millions of others couldn’t (until they got the kit & connectivity sorted). She’s resisted blocking some time out for a quickie, so I’ve readjusted my sights and am suggesting we go get some (takeaway) lunch...

[Chedney Honks]

Can't imagine why some corpodroid from the Canary Wharf group would put its name to that

[bgmnts]

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/26/teleperformance-call-centre-staff-monitored-via-webcam-home-working-infractions

Jesus.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/26/teleperformance-call-centre-staff-monitored-via-webcam-home-working-infractions

Jesus.

Yeah, the sad fact is a lot of people will actually approve of this in the usual 'if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to worry about' dumb sheeple way because everyone knows and resents at least 1 person that slacks off at work.

'If you're not careful you'll end up hating the people being oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing'.

I personally don't see why cameras are necessary for work which is already fully trackable, itemised etc. Call centres are tightly monitored and controlled data centres that just happen to have the slave drones in the same room. There's no reason why they need to be in the same room, and there's certainly no reason to have a camera pointing at them at work. They could be taking calls on a sun lounger in Belize and outperforming some shambling sack of shit in a poorly ventilated 60s office in Romford who has put on a suit and tie and grimly logged in and out with perfect metronomy for decades.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Utterly vile man:

However, when asked at the Conservative party spring conference on Saturday whether there should be a special bank holiday when the pandemic subsides, Johnson said people should be thinking more about getting back to work than having more time off. “The general view is people have had quite a few days off, and it wouldn’t be a bad thing for people to see their way round to making a passing stab at getting back into the office,” he said.

Totally ignoring the realities of working from home, and how most people work just as hard if not harder from home - some people end up working longer hours from home than in the office as they are worried about being seen as "slacking off". Maybe he's been speaking to Tory donors who rent out business space.

No doubt we'll see more blue ticks claiming to be worried about the job security of people who want to continue working from home.

[flotemysost]

^ The fuck? "Quite a few days off" - what exactly is he referring to there? People who've been furloughed and may well have been struggling to afford their rent on reduced pay? People who were ill with covid and had to take time off work? Or is he suggesting that any day working from home is a "day off"?

Also, I've been very lucky to have neither been furloughed or been ill, but I've taken hardly any of my annual leave over the past year because guess what, sitting around in the same small room which is now also your workplace, when there's fuck all to do and you can't go out anywhere or see anyone, is actually really fucking depressing. Stupid cunt.

[bgmnts]

Days off lol.

Pure evil cunts aye.

[Fambo Number Mive]

It's ridiculous. I suspect most attendees at the Conservative Party Conference are retired and have no idea about the realities of people working from home. It feeds into the idea on the right that people on furlough are having a great time - as if a 20% pay cut, especially  at a time when utilities and council tax are rising is going to be easy. Utter insult to millions of ordinary people, but then I suppose I shouldn't be surprised given the comment was from a man who regards his six-figure salary as "chickenfeed".

I've used barely any of my annual leave either - there is literally nothing to do at the moment. Will need to use it up in the next six months though.

[flotemysost]

Exactly - it's an insult to both those who are thriving on working from home and being more productive and working harder than they were able to in the office, and to those who are really struggling with it and bloody miserable at the moment (like me). Obviously it's complicated and there are plenty of people who've fallen into both camps at different times, depending on various factors (e.g. schools being open making the difference between having a free house or not) but of course they're not bothering themselves with those details, why would they?

This antiquated idea that we've all just had a big year-long jolly of dicking around in our jimjams all day is below contempt - it's a concept which has definitely been used in the past, pre-pandemic, by individual managers to discourage flexible working policies back when it was maybe a handful of people trying to push for a day here and there, but the fact that they're still trying to apply this thinking on a national level after a year of more or less solid remote working is a bit disgusting.

[Fambo Number Mive]

It's also massively hypocritical from Johnson, who is a very lazy man who has probably spent a lot of time dicking around the past 12 months and is able to more or less work from home, living next door to his office (does he live at Number 11?)

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

He's covered - the divide and rule tactics will mean lots of ordinary people spout the same garbage at their colleagues. People more interested in what's going on one desk across from them than what's happening in the boardroom.

He knows Keith the Non-Entity won't take a brave counter-position, in fact it's more likely Keith the Non-Entity will try and copy him or shout it even louder.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Keith, May 2021 "I expect the Prime Minister to get everyone back in the office. No ifs, no buts"