Labour Party - Any other leader would be 20 points ahead

[Paul Calf]

Not about that at all.  It's about the media and the establishment subtly compromising people like Sultana.  And her going along with it.  I'd have no objection if they used images of her or the others, at work or addressing a meeting or appearing on Question Time or any other part of her job as an MP and politician.  What I object to is her and her colleagues being dressed up in matching clothes and posed around like dolls.  Is it normal for male politicians to be made over and staged like models, presented in this way?  Why would a powerful media outlet choose to present women, women whose business is to represent the working class and shape the future, in this neutered way?

Also that the clothes they're wearing look very anodyne, expensive, not the sort of thing working class women wear.  The sort of thing the ruling class wear.  And that is subtly compromising. 

You're essentially just asking Vogue to stop being Vogue. It's not a magazine that claims to speak to working class struggle.

[Buelligan]

Right, so yep, those women might think it's important to speak to the people that read it, to be heard.  That is important.  Compromising ones message by dressing up and behaving like dolls undermines that work.  That was a bad decision.

BTW, I'm not saying this because I want to say hate all you men oppressing us women victims.  It's because I think it's important to notice the way the media, the establishment, works to skew our world view.  To promote the status quo and to undermine anyone or anything that might precipitate a change for the better.  It works to induct every fresh recruit into the dirty old slave paths it's been making us all walk forever.  We are all victims.  We all need to stop letting this stuff slip past just out of vision because it's the stuff they've built our culture from.

[king_tubby]

Not bothered with the Vogue piece because the writer is an arsehole.

[Blue Jam]

https://www.vogue.co.uk/gallery/jeremy-corbyn-style-analysis

[Johnny Yesno]

And there's Dishy Rishi. Chill out, Buellers.

[Blue Jam]

[Chollis]

SIZE OF HIS ARMS

[bgmnts]

Looks like he's about to shoot up.

[Blue Jam]

SIZE OF HIS ARMS

THEY'RE LIKE BOUGHS OF STURDY ENGLISH OAK

[Paul Calf]

He looks like he's about to tap a vein.

Looks like he's about to shoot up.

Schnap.

[Blue Jam]

He looks like he's about to tap a vein.

Damn good veins as well. Dude's looking well hench. Probably from lugging all those giant marrows about on his allotment, PHWOARGH

[Johnny Yesno]

Ah, going for the Sherlock Holmes fan / junkie vote, I see.

Edit: FFS, too slow.

[Blue Jam]

Sherlock Holmes was a junkie so that's apt.

[Buelligan]

The point is about all of those things, of course, is that these are men.  Men are not traditionally portrayed as mindless dolls, eye candy and so on are they?  It's a choice for a man, for a woman, it's the default.

IMO, women choosing to pander to that are making an obvious error.

[Blue Jam]

[Sebastian Cobb]

I reckon Sadiq needs a cane to complete the look.

[Zetetic]

That shot of Khan is in a GQ article where he's mostly shown at work though.

[EOLAN]

The point is about all of those things, of course, is that these are men.  Men are not traditionally portrayed as mindless dolls, eye candy and so on are they?  It's a choice for a man, for a woman, it's the default.

IMO, women choosing to pander to that are making an obvious error.

So women  or at least serious female politicians should restrict their choices in how they represent themselves; while men are free to do what they want? To counteract sexism.

[Blue Jam]

Before the pandemic, yes!

I dunno, to me the Vogue article is just a shot of four women looking smart and professional and each given the space to sell their political ideal and vision. It's practically a Labout puff piece. And it's hardly Theresa May and The Sturge and "Who won Legs-it?".

[BlodwynPig]

Saw this today and it almost feels like they're talking about another party.

Jess Phillips must be FUMING.

Nice beige shades

[Blue Jam]

Nice beige shades

I suspect that's deliberate. It's a far cry from the bright red blazers and the "Blair Babes" at least.

[Buelligan]

So women  or at least serious female politicians should restrict their choices in how they represent themselves; while men are free to do what they want? To counteract sexism.

I would hope that someone like Zarah Sultana - some people think she might well be the left's best hope for a new leader one day - would think carefully before going along with something like this.  But there's something very seductive, I think, for most women about the idea of being in a Vogue photoshoot.  It's seductive because we're trained by the culture we grew in to think that that's something positive to achieve if you're a woman.  But how does Zarah, dressing up in matching frocks with the others and posing help?  What does it say to ordinary people, to ordinary women, who can't aspire to those clothes about solidarity?  What does it say about her priorities, about change, about the old order?  What subliminal message does it send about goals? 

IMO, people like Sultana, who carry the hopes of many, need to think about this stuff because it is important.  That is the point of politics, making wise choices to advance a common goal.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Do not know why they did those photos - fair enough to talk to any media source (almost any media source) about something relevant to politics or being an mp but the fucking photos, the subtly undermining photos, the poses, reminding the world that even if you're the fucking Prime Minister, if you're a woman, you're primarily there to be judged like an animal.

I think it is about politicians trying to convey that they are real humans. By giving people glimpses of both letting their hair down and dressing up it gives the readers of the mag something to identify with. There are undoubtedly some ego considerations and commercial considerations too.

Your desire for puritanical asceticism in politics and life in general isn't compatible with the day to day realpolitik requirements of politicians of 1) getting people to know who the fuck you even are and 2) getting them to like you. Which isn't to say standards shouldn't improve and reform. They certainly can and should.

If you follow Zarah Sultana as I do, this is entirely consistent with her approach to being a public figure and an independently minded strong politician and woman.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Glad they've found the new James Bond.

[Buelligan]

I think it is about politicians trying to convey that they are real humans. By giving people glimpses of both letting their hair down and dressing up it gives the readers of the mag something to identify with. There are undoubtedly some ego considerations and commercial considerations too.

Your desire for puritanical asceticism in politics and life in general isn't compatible with the day to day realpolitik requirements of politicians of 1) getting people to know who the fuck you even are and 2) getting them to like you. Which isn't to say standards shouldn't improve and reform. They certainly can and should.

If you follow Zarah Sultana as I do, this is entirely consistent with her approach to being a public figure and an independently minded strong politician and woman.

I can understand your point but I still feel it would serve her and more importantly, the dear old cause, far better if she was more thoughtful about the way she allows herself to be portrayed.  I can understand her desire to speak to the readers of Vogue, a group that she might not reach through more usual avenues, absolutely. 

What I can't applaud is her allowing Vogue (not really a friend to progressive views) to set the tone - I don't see that she was letting people see her as she really is - a posed image, dressed by someone else, is the antithesis of that, surely?  IMO, it would be far more valuable for the readers of Vogue to see a real woman, speaking, as we say, truth to power[nb]dear Jess[/nb] and unafraid of being judged for being real.

[BlodwynPig]

I think it is about politicians trying to convey that they are real humans. By giving people glimpses of both letting their hair down and dressing up it gives the readers of the mag something to identify with. There are undoubtedly some ego considerations and commercial considerations too.

Your desire for puritanical asceticism in politics and life in general isn't compatible with the day to day realpolitik requirements of politicians of 1) getting people to know who the fuck you even are and 2) getting them to like you. Which isn't to say standards shouldn't improve and reform. They certainly can and should.

If you follow Zarah Sultana as I do, this is entirely consistent with her approach to being a public figure and an independently minded strong politician and woman.

I think I've seen you on Tyskie Sour

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

It would be far more valuable for the readers of Vogue to see a real woman, speaking, as we say, truth to power[1] and unafraid of being judged for being real

The readers of Vogue don't read Vogue and nothing else. It is an entry point into their world but the world doesn't exist in a vacuum. They will follow and find out more about Sultana after this palatable taster. The trail leads them on a journey away from such things.

The art of seduction, rather than saying 'Your magazine of teenage anorexia torture and grief is bullshit and I would hire Hezbollah to wipe you off the map if I had their number'

[Buelligan]

Yeah, you're probably right, I find it difficult to compromise and play nice with teenage anorexia torture and grief mongers, I hope for that in my leaders.  I know I'm usually mistaken.

[Paul Calf]

I can understand your point but I still feel it would serve her and more importantly, the dear old cause, far better if she was more thoughtful about the way she allows herself to be portrayed.  I can understand her desire to speak to the readers of Vogue, a group that she might not reach through more usual avenues, absolutely. 

What I can't applaud is her allowing Vogue (not really a friend to progressive views) to set the tone - I don't see that she was letting people see her as she really is - a posed image, dressed by someone else, is the antithesis of that, surely?  IMO, it would be far more valuable for the readers of Vogue to see a real woman, speaking, as we say, truth to power[nb]dear Jess[/nb] and unafraid of being judged for being real.

Assuming she had any control at all over the wat the article was presented, what should she have done?

[Johnny Yesno]

I reckon Sadiq needs a cane to complete the look.

I reckon Corbyn needs some cane to complete the look.