Just rewatched Trainspotting

[MikkiDisco]

Something that's always bothered me about the skag deal at the end is the way the plan for the 16k was to just split it equally between the 4 of them. How was that right? Renton had put in half the cash to buy the stuff so surely he'd have been due a higher cut even if he hadn't gone and robbed it all? I mean I can't for one second imagine Spud would have been able to scrape much together to contribute to the other half, yet he was making as much as the guy who sunk all his savings into the deal.

What really concerns me is they all just thought it was fair enough cause they're mates, which would mean I'm a shittier friend than a bunch of lying, thieving skag heads.

[mothman]

I suppose it comes down to, did Renton always intend to steal it once the deal was done? It feels impulsive, it's not exactly an ideal set of circumstances under which he does so - and certainly not a scenario he can have planned for. And I suppose there are scenarios in which he could have refused to front the cash, even if most of them result in Begbie kicking his head in.

It occurs to me I still haven't watched the sequel...

[bgmnts]

Well, they're mates.

[MidnightShambler]

Well, they're mates.

Bingo

[purlieu]

I've watched this film more than any other (by some margin) and I still never even considered this. I know the whole section is covered in one unusual third-person chapter in the novel, can't remember if it's split in the same way but probably is. Bit odd, but the mates thing is a recurring motif yeah.

Still my favourite film.

[MidnightShambler]

Just because people are on drugs doesn't mean there isn't still a fraternal bond, especially with heroin. They're all at the bottom and they know it, it isn't something they aren't wise to. And they'd like to lift each other up if the chance comes. Just like most other groups of friends.

[MikkiDisco]

even if most of them result in Begbie kicking his head in.

Actually all the times I've thought this it never occurred to me that that's probably how Begbie wanted it, and nobody was going to argue with him. For all his many, many faults, I think friendship and the code around that means more to Begbie than the others, like sure he'd kick the living shit out of them if he felt the need but I actually think of the 4 of them he's the least likely to consider ripping the others off. That's a feeling I have based more on the book than the film I think.

[MidnightShambler]

The weird thing about Trainspotting is that Begbie exists at all. In real life (and I know it's suspension of disbelief etc) smack heads generally only assort with other smack heads. It's a completely different way of life and doesn't lend itself to somebody who's not into it. In even drug circles, it's marooned in terms of its contact with 'outsiders'.....so a hooligan drunk never really rang true with me as being somebody who'd be involved.

[St_Eddie]

What I want to know is when are Heinz going to get back to me regarding my proposed tie-in promotion; Begbie's Beans.

[MikkiDisco]

The weird thing about Trainspotting is that Begbie exists at all. In real life (and I know it's suspension of disbelief etc) smack heads generally only assort with other smack heads. It's a completely different way of life and doesn't lend itself to somebody who's not into it. In even drug circles, it's marooned in terms of its contact with 'outsiders'.....so a hooligan drunk never really rang true with me as being somebody who'd be involved.

I guess at least when it comes to Begbie you can think self preservation is the answer. They were friends since before the smack and its far more preferable to keep someone like that onside than to have him think you've turned your back on him. It's harder probably to explain them still hanging round with Tommy (and, definitely, why the Tommy you see at the start was still hanging around with them)

[MidnightShambler]

I guess at least when it comes to Begbie you can think self preservation is the answer. They were friends since before the smack and its far more preferable to keep someone like that onside than to have him think you've turned your back on him. It's harder probably to explain them still hanging round with Tommy (and, definitely, why the Tommy you see at the start was still hanging around with them)

I think of it the other way around. Why would he want to be around them?

[MidnightShambler]

In my experience heroin addicts are ostracised from the friendship groups, completely. I've never once seen anybody who isn't a heroin addict hang around with heroin addicts.

They just don't keep the same schedules.

[Catalogue Trousers]

Okay, I've never watched Trainspotting, never really felt the urge, but I did pick up the screenplay for it when I found it cheap second hand (with the script for Shallow Grave, IIRC). Mothman is basically right. There's a huge chunk of stage directions describing the conflicting emotions that play across Renton's face, before he suddenly picks up the cash and gets the fuck out of Dodge. The clear indication is that it's a spontaneous decision he's making, not some cunning plan that he's had all along.

And yeah, Spud just lets him go because, well, Renton's his mate. As long as someone that he likes is doing okay out of the whole mess, he's happy, even if it's not him.

Also, Begbie? A sense of honour? Hard as I try, I just can't see it. Begbie isn't some Highlands samurai with a burning belief in the nobility of friendship, he's a nasty, selfish, semi-psychotic little cunt.

[Shaky]

Also, Begbie? A sense of honour? Hard as I try, I just can't see it. Begbie isn't some Highlands samurai with a burning belief in the nobility of friendship, he's a nasty, selfish, semi-psychotic little cunt.

Yeah, everything he does is more of a flex to show he's the top dog and in control, rather than coming from any sense of genuine friendship. He still hangs out with skag addicts because he feels he's better than them, where the same wouldn't be true with other groups. Hence the bursts of violence and anger when the facade crumbles. Deluded King of his own shitty little world.

[MikkiDisco]

As I say, I'm going from the book more than anything else, which have chapters from his POV. And I'm not trying to suggest that he's anything other than a wretched, horrible, psychotic piece of shit. But in his head, he can justify all his actions, he actually believes he's the good guy. I don't think the thought of stealing that money would have even crossed his mind. Certainly not in the way Rents did it at least. If he were to keep that money himself he would have done it brazenly and openly, telling them he was doing them a favour by stopping them blowing it all on smack. And in his head he would actually believe it himself, thinking it made him the hero of the piece.

Just my theory anyway. Beautifully fucking illustrated.

[MidnightShambler]

Yeah, still though (and at the risk of driving this into the fucking ground) his very presence in the story takes me out of it. It's just not realistic. And yeah I know it's fiction etc but still....anyway, it's still great.

[Waking Life]

While I don't think Begbie is based one particular person, my understanding is that Irvine Welsh largely drew upon autobiography for Trainspotting. It recurs a bit in Glue and is explored more in Skagboys, but its thrust is the bonding of a particular group of school friends into adulthood, rather than heroin addiction. And Trainspotting is the culmination of how much they have grown apart, lifestyle or otherwise. The book has many other non-heroin addict characters (Second Prize as an alcoholic and a slightly different chapter about a uni student falling for a girl at a party), with the structure being how they drift in and out of each other's lives over a longer period - that includes a disconnect between Renton and Sick Boy, when one of them comes off heroin.

I know an acquaintance who lived in a squat with Welsh in the late 70s in Wester Hailes (interestingly, the opposite end of town from Leith), and he was by no means a full-blown heroin addict. Not sure how deep Welsh went into that world, but his life at that time (before moving to London, like Renton) was foundational for Trainspotting.

[Waking Life]

Edit - ignore

[mr. logic]

Actually all the times I've thought this it never occurred to me that that's probably how Begbie wanted it, and nobody was going to argue with him. For all his many, many faults, I think friendship and the code around that means more to Begbie than the others, like sure he'd kick the living shit out of them if he felt the need but I actually think of the 4 of them he's the least likely to consider ripping the others off. That's a feeling I have based more on the book than the film I think.

Doesn't the book have a section specifically countering this claim? The myths and facts of Begbie bit? I love that, it's such a perfect encapsulation of what it's like to have a cunt for a friend

[druss]

Also, Begbie? A sense of honour? Hard as I try, I just can't see it. Begbie isn't some Highlands samurai with a burning belief in the nobility of friendship, he's a nasty, selfish, semi-psychotic little cunt.

Bit harsh on are Begbie, he liked a bit of banter but was basically a great bunch of lads.

[Marner and Me]

Something that's always bothered me about the skag deal at the end is the way the plan for the 16k was to just split it equally between the 4 of them. How was that right? Renton had put in half the cash to buy the stuff so surely he'd have been due a higher cut even if he hadn't gone and robbed it all? I mean I can't for one second imagine Spud would have been able to scrape much together to contribute to the other half, yet he was making as much as the guy who sunk all his savings into the deal.

What really concerns me is they all just thought it was fair enough cause they're mates, which would mean I'm a shittier friend than a bunch of lying, thieving skag heads.

Socialism init

[purlieu]

The extent to which they all use heroin is never quite clear - they all make aborted attempts to get off it and re-engage with society, which tends to be when we see Begbie the most. I always assumed this was the normal routine, that the full-on 'never doing anything but taking heroin' times were the low points rather than the status quo.

[El Unicornio, mang]

I had a friend at college who hung about with a lot of heroin users and he said that the most unrealistic aspect was Renton giving Spud the bit of money at the end, in reality he'd have kept every single penny for himself. He did used to talk a lot of shit though, so I dunno.

[Gulftastic]

I had a friend at college who hung about with a lot of heroin users and he said that the most unrealistic aspect was Renton giving Spud the bit of money at the end, in reality he'd have kept every single penny for himself. He did used to talk a lot of shit though, so I dunno.

Renton is passed his full on junkie days at that point though, so wasn't chasing every penny to blow on skag.

[Bence Fekete]

The general vibe that druggies end up in all kinds of nonsensical situations that can (and often do) incorporate other substance abusers and the mentally unstable across the whole spectrum is spot on. Wasn't Begbie's poison booze? Heroin/crack abusers and alcoholics can end up unlikely bedfellows because it's all about extending the party ad infinitum. They're also bonded by their mutual ostricism.