New "black Superman" film from JJ Abrams and Ta-Nehisi Coates

[Mister Six]

As you say, just remove the "truth, justice and the American way" aspect. 

...which would be addressing his skin colour in the story, the thing you didn't want to see happen.

[Mister Six]

Why?  These characters were created as far back as the 1930's, the idea that a child can't find enjoyment in characters of different races is not healthy. Black children can put on a Spiderman costume and play, and not give one ayota about race, a white or Asian child can do the same with Black Panther.

Yes, but it can - and does - mean a lot more to them if a superhero shares the same physical traits they do, whether that's skin colour, gender, disability or something else.

This is especially true if they have been made to feel that this trait they have makes them weaker or uglier or less worthy than others without the trait.

If you're black and you've grown up surrounded by white celebrities, white models, white fictional characters, what you have been told is that being white is better and more attractive than being black.

You've also most likely been given stories that place black people in lesser roles than the white lead - as victims to be saved, villains to be punished or (at best) supporting characters who can only hope to assist white people in their endeavours.

So seeing Chadwick Boseman as a handsome black hero surrounded by other attractive black people (most of whom are women), all fighting to save the world just like Captain America and Iron Man do can be incredibly exciting for a young black kid.

Black kids can put themselves in a white character's shoes, but there should also be opportunities for them to just "be" that character without having to imagine they are a different race.

And yes, it's a shame that society makes this a big issue, but society isn't going to change any time soon (and not within our lifetimes or the lifetimes of the kids in question, sadly) so it's the height of twattishness to get all sniffy about black-led films that act as a stopgap.

[wooders1978]

I strongly doubt a little lad is going to consider critical race theory when he wants to pretend he is superman

[Mister Six]

I strongly doubt you're responding in good faith, but regardless: critical race theory exists to put words to already existing facts, feelings and systems of oppression. Black kids are made to feel inferior by a media that centralises white heroes and promotes white beauty standards. They feel good about themselves when they have a brave, cool black hero to play as.

Ask yourself why you object to people pointing this out. Ask yourself why you need to question things that have been quite loudly said by black people and sociologists alike[nb]Kenneth and Mamie Clark's doll experiments being a good example of a study into how society's treatment of black people makes young black kids feel about their own racial Identity.[/nb] for decades.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I imagine representation is a lot like water: You don't need to think about it when it's available on tap.

[wooders1978]

I strongly doubt you're responding in good faith, but regardless: critical race theory exists to put words to already existing facts, feelings and systems of oppression. Black kids are made to feel inferior by a media that centralises white heroes and promotes white beauty standards. They feel good about themselves when they have a brave, cool black hero to play as.

Ask yourself why you object to people pointing this out.

I didn't say I objected to anything I just don't think a young kid is going to have serious reservations about playing superman due to the colour of their skin - ask any young kid if they want to be iron man or falcon and most of them would pick iron man, guaranteed

[Bazooka]

Critical race theory is incredibly flawed(but that's another topic), children can identify race, but it's a stretch to believe they would think beyond aesthetics when playing whoever with their mates. There are countless examples of beautiful and physically fit back people represented in the media, the representative of beauty standards is hardly completely white washed in 2021, the representation of the masses regardless is inaccurate.

Black kids can put themselves in a white character's shoes, but there should also be opportunities for them to just "be" that character without having to imagine they are a different race.

Should there be blanket re-colouring (sorry can't think of a better term) of fictional characters for the purpose of children's role playing, should every character be changed?  They act as Superman not as Caucasian man.

[madhair60]

sorry, this is actually mad. what on earth is happening here.

edit: seriously, am i missing something?

[Chedney Honks]

Black superheroes?

Fuck that shit!

Black supervillains.

Seriously, what was the last black supervillain?

[phantom_power]

Black superheroes?

Fuck that shit!

Black supervillains.

Seriously, what was the last black supervillain?

Killmonger

[Goldentony]

Black superheroes?

Fuck that shit!

Black supervillains.

Seriously, what was the last black supervillain?

DEEBO

[Chedney Honks]

Candy man

[wooders1978]

Mr Glass

[Goldentony]

Ghost Dad

[Jerzy Bondov]

If they really want to force the BLM woke agenda into a Superman film then they should introduce a new black character, for instance he could be a street smart wise cracking drug dealer who goes DAMN when Superman fights baddies.

[St_Eddie]

As you say, just remove the "truth, justice and the American way" aspect.

...which would be addressing his skin colour in the story, the thing you didn't want to see happen.

Huh?  No it wouldn't.  Not including a specific line in the script does not equate to addressing his skin colour in the story.

[JamesTC]

If they really want to force the BLM woke agenda into a Superman film then they should introduce a new black character, for instance he could be a street smart wise cracking drug dealer who goes DAMN when Superman fights baddies.

They made Superman's friend Pete Ross black in Smallville.

[Jerzy Bondov]

What?! Not Pete Ross! Is nothing sacred

[earl_sleek]

Imagine if they made Bob Ross black.

[Mister Six]

I didn't say I objected to anything I just don't think a young kid is going to have serious reservations about playing superman due to the colour of their skin

No, but they will have serious reservations about the colour of their skin if all the prominent superheroes are white.

ask any young kid if they want to be iron man or falcon and most of them would pick iron man, guaranteed

Because Iron Man is the main character in the DCU and Falcon is a supporting character for a white protagonist.

Do you realise you're making my case for me?

Critical race theory is incredibly flawed(but that's another topic), children can identify race, but it's a stretch to believe they would think beyond aesthetics when playing whoever with their mates.

It's hardly a stretch to say that black and Asian children respond positively to fictional characters that look like them, regardless of who they play as. Go ask anyone who has non-white kids how the nippers respond to this sort of thing. Do you think all those little black kids who were doing "Wakanda forever" poses on social media after Black Panther came out were just high on sugar?

There are countless examples of beautiful and physically fit back people represented in the media, the representative of beauty standards is hardly completely white washed in 2021, the representation of the masses regardless is inaccurate.

Things are improving, but still, kids' movies and family films are predominantly led by white (and especially white male) characters, and black or Asian characters reduced to supporting roles. With superheroes it's Aquaman, Black Panther... I think that's it. The white protagonists are legion: Iron Man, Captain America, the Hulk, Thor, Star Lord in Guardians of the Galaxy,[nb]That's an ensemble film, but he's the protagonist - the one that the central emotional arc turns around.[/nb] Ant-Man, Spider-Man, Captain Marvel, Doctor Strange, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Harley Quinn...

Black Superman is another step in the right direction and not worth getting pissy about.

Should there be blanket re-colouring (sorry can't think of a better term) of fictional characters for the purpose of children's role playing, should every character be changed? 

No.

[Mister Six]

...which would be addressing his skin colour in the story, the thing you didn't want to see happen.


Huh?  No it wouldn't.  Not including a specific line in the script does not equate to addressing his skin colour in the story.

I thought you were talking about changing his attitude so that he didn't have such a rock-solid belief in the existence of "truth, [legal] justice and the American way". Didn't realise your take was so shallow.

[purlieu]

They made Superman's friend Pete Ross black in Smallville.

James Olsen is black in Supergirl. They also make him the (previously white) superhero Guardian. It's a small thing but an example of it being done, and done well. Supergirl is narratively dull as fuck, but in terms of representation and dealing with these kinds of social issues, it's really good.

[Kelvin]

Other than my deep concerns about JJ Abrams directing, my initial reaction to this was that, while I had no problem with them doing a black superman in theory, it was a bit of a shame that we'd have to go even longer before we got a traditional comic-book faithful version of the character, rather than yet another "elseworlds" take.

But the more I think about it, the more I think this might be exactly the kind of thing they need to find the character again, after so many versions, in comics, in games and on screen that either don't seem to understand the core appeal of the character, or simply don't know how to make that version of the character interesting. If a black Superman means that, by necessity, the character has a different perspective on the world than classic Superman, at least it's unlikely to be a characterisation that relies on making him a complete bastard.     

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Golly an alien judge

[St_Eddie]

I thought you were talking about changing his attitude so that he didn't have such a rock-solid belief in the existence of "truth, [legal] justice and the American way".

But when was this belief of the great American way ever demonstrated in any of the movie adaptations?  I don't recall any scenes where Superman took part in an apple pie baking contest, or attended an NRA meeting.  Also, you can't just add that qualifier of "[legal] justice".  That's not what Superman is about, is it?  Again, I don't recall any scenes where Superman took the criminals to court and testified against them, or acted as a witness for an unfairly charged suspect, or fought against a newly passed unjust bill by taking to the streets with a picket in hand.  In the movies I saw, Superman flies around the place in his underpants, saving people from peril and bringing justice to criminals.  That's justice in a societal sense, not a legal sense.

If I'm wrong and Superman does indeed represent truth, [legal] justice and the American Way at his very core, then yeah, that needs to go in the bin because it's fucking stupid.  He's an alien from another planet.  What the fuck does he care about the American way and the American legal system?  Trust patriotic Americans, who think that the world revolves around them and their country to assume that a space alien would become obsessed with their culture and core beliefs, should one ever land on Earth.

Didn't realise your take was so shallow.

My take was shallow?  Pulease, this is Superman we're talking about.  Just like the vast majority of superhero shite, the whole thing is shallow as fuck.  I give the material the amount of respect it deserves, which is to say "very little".

[greenman]

Other than my deep concerns about JJ Abrams directing, my initial reaction to this was that, while I had no problem with them doing a black superman in theory, it was a bit of a shame that we'd have to go even longer before we got a traditional comic-book faithful version of the character, rather than yet another "elseworlds" take.

But the more I think about it, the more I think this might be exactly the kind of thing they need to find the character again, after so many versions, in comics, in games and on screen that either don't seem to understand the core appeal of the character, or simply don't know how to make that version of the character interesting. If a black Superman means that, by necessity, the character has a different perspective on the world than classic Superman, at least it's unlikely to be a characterisation that relies on making him a complete bastard.   

JJ Abrams who turned his black co lead in Starwars into cowardly comic relief.

Superman is a bit different from say Bond though for me, the Craig Bonds were able to stay with the times a bit because Bond as a character by playing on his flaws rather than switching him in race/gender/etc. There does seem potential there to play on superman feeling somewhat disconnected maybe by his race or his powers, or perhaps to have racial inequality play u a sense of justice.

[Jerzy Bondov]

It's becoming very obvious that a number of posters in this thread haven't read All-Star Superman. Supposedly Snyder has read it but he obviously didn't understand it as with Watchmen.

[MojoJojo]

My hot take - there is potential to have a black superman story that comments on race in america by contrasting how he is treated compared to white superman - with the neat background point that neither white or black superman are actually human anyway. However, it's a story better suited for the comics or a small scale film rather than a big block buster. JJ Abrams is not a good sign.

So yeah, could be good, could be bad. Look forward to more of my thrilling insights, coming soon.

[El Unicornio, mang]

My hot take - there is potential to have a black superman story that comments on race in america by contrasting how he is treated compared to white superman - with the neat background point that neither white or black superman are actually human anyway. However, it's a story better suited for the comics or a small scale film rather than a big block buster. JJ Abrams is not a good sign.

That's what I was thinking, maybe do it as a satire. I didn't like Thor Ragnarok much but Taika Waititi could probably have a good stab at it. It would have to be smaller scale though, Joker level, can't see any studio risking $200million+ on something like that.

[Povidone]

It's becoming very obvious that a number of posters in this thread haven't read All-Star Superman. Supposedly Snyder has read it but he obviously didn't understand it as with Watchmen.

Wait...Snyder read All-Star Superman and still came up with...what he came up with. Doing nothing to dispel my belief that he is a colossally stupid twat.

Any adaptation of Superman needs to have that notion of him choosing to do good and believe in the good in people. That could be really powerful in a version with a black superman, the character is all about compassion, acknowledging injustice and fighting it without caving in to bitter cynicism.

How could Snyder read All-Star Superman and manage to miss that entirely?