New "black Superman" film from JJ Abrams and Ta-Nehisi Coates

[earl_sleek]

I'd only be interested if it is a lecture in racial politics. Comics are for kids, cunts.

[letsgobrian]

Coates was great at writing superhero comics out the gate. Looking forward to whatever he has planned here.

[wooders1978]

I'd only be interested if it is a lecture in racial politics. Comics are for kids, cunts.

You've talked me round, bring it on Warner bros!

[Replies From View]

why are people kidding themselves that any superman these days will be anything other than teal and orange

[Chedney Honks]

When they cast Jackie Chan as Jimmy Olsen you'll change yer tune Ched

I guess Wong Fei Hung is actually a kind of folk superhero and there's probably some nob on a Chinese forum saying oh great another WFH movie.

[Blumf]

why are people kidding themselves that any superman these days will be anything other than teal and orange

At the end of the day, the only colour that matters is green.

[amputeeporn]

Although my instinct is that this will be pandering rot - as I'm afraid I found Black Panther and HBO's Watchmen to be - it's probably worth a go, trying to tell Superman's story from a new angle. For whatever reason (I'd argue bad writing/directing) Superman just doesn't connect with people anymore in the way that he once did. Is it possible that the idea of his blackness will reinvigorate the character and somehow allow him to return to basics? I'd say so...

The problem with Superman in particular is that basics is what you really need - while I don't agree that Clarke Kent needs to be white, I do agree that he has to be an almost uncomplicated force for good - yes, to have some naivety and small-town, neighbourly goodness. Is it possible for a young, sheltered black superman to present in that way? I don't know, but it's difficult to imagine, for example, Michael B Jordan playing him, because MBJ is almost impossibly strong and self-assured, certain to be the most magnetic person in any room he enters. Could he play a man completely naive about the way he's perceived? To me, it seems like the role of an actor who can present with more uncertainty, likely by necessity a younger one.

With that said, I recall watching the excellent documentary Minding The Gap, a film about a group of young skateboarders transitioning from teens to adults in shit-town America. There's the sweetest kid in there called Keire, the only black member of the group. While it's absolutely clear at first that he's accepted and loved as an equal, and that this skate crew is about as insulated from race as he can be in this town, the issue STILL surrounds him, he STILL has to listen to his friends say stupid things, even when they're inarticulately trying to make what they see as decent points, etc, they're teenage boys and even though they're white, they're going to say the N-word and get it wrong. A black superman somehow naive about race almost needs to grow up without peers - because any real-world group of kids would fill him in FAST, even if just with their cack-handed attempts NOT to confront the issue.

With all that said, I'm sure a good writer could get there somehow - or perhaps even reimagine Superman's DNA in a way that replaces that naivety with something else. The problem is that Superman acting out of duty feels boring, and acting out of some inner conflict feels wrong (and like every one else).

I very likely wouldn't see another white take on the character, though, where it feels like I can't possibly be surprised - if this got good reviews, I'd likely give it a look, just to see how they went about cracking it.

Edit to add: I haven't read the Superman as Russian/Chinese stories - but wonder how they work? Does Superman become a weapon of the state, or does he always take on the absolute best attributes of whatever world he's dropped into? I guess if that's something in his alien brain chemistry (we need to remember he's NOT black, he's an alien being), that makes him naturally move towards whatever the highest principles he encounters are, it could work?

[El Unicornio, mang]

The problem I have with these kinds of things is that it always just defaults to "black", as if there aren't any other demographics which need to be included. Superhero films/shows are by their very nature non-inclusive anyway because the characters are always played by the most idealised, top 1% of human physical specimens. Even the X-Men, a bunch of mutants, get the likes of Hugh Jackman, Halle Berry and Famke Janssen in the roles. But at least try to vary the race demographics.

Hispanics make up a higher percentage of the US population than the black population, where are the Hispanic superheroes? Or Asian or native American? In the Marvel films and TV shows alone there's Black Panther, Luke Cage, Storm, Blade, War Machine, Nick Fury, Falcon, and Miles Morales in the latest video game. Zero Hispanic* or any other race.

*maybe Zoe Saldana although they painted her green

[Blumf]

News just coming in! They're going to recast Krypto as a cat!!

[wooders1978]

Would it be too cynical to assume that Hollywood executives might be trying to capitalise on the blm movement?

[Dex Sawash]

Really think they should just do a Superperson film

[JamesTC]

I can see it working if they have an older Superman die and the title is passed on to another child of Krypton who arrived on earth after Clark did (use the excuse that he took longer to arrive). That way you have a blank slate in terms of what he represents as it would technically be a completely new character who just assumes the title.

[kalowski]

News just coming in! They're going to recast Krypto as a cat!!

Hast thou forgotten Streaky?

[kalowski]

At least Streaky and Krypto had names

[Gulftastic]

The horse is Comet, the monkey is Beppo.

It's because my head remembers shit like this that means there's no room to learn new stuff.

[kalowski]

The horse is Comet, the monkey is Beppo.

It's because my head remembers shit like this that means there's no room to learn new stuff.

Shit, you're right. And I knew that too. But had forgotten.

[bgmnts]

Hispanics make up a higher percentage of the US population than the black population, where are the Hispanic superheroes? Or Asian or native American? In the Marvel films and TV shows alone there's Black Panther, Luke Cage, Storm, Blade, War Machine, Nick Fury, Falcon, and Miles Morales in the latest video game. Zero Hispanic* or any other race.

*maybe Zoe Saldana although they painted her green

Miles Morales? Is he Hispanic?

[Mister Six]

my whole point in one phrase is "use existing or new characters because tailoring existing characters on this way is cynical at worst and patronising at best", in this very specific context.

And I'm saying in this specific context that rejigging Superman himself is by far the best option, creatively, in terms of impact, in terms of dramatic and thematic potential and (yes) in terms of making it likely to get a return on the investment. That latter point might well be considered cynical but unfortunately this is Hollywood realpolitik.

This isn't like taking an established B-D-list white character and handing their mantle over to a person of colour (cf. The Atom, Dr Light, Green Lantern etc) - this is changing that character themselves. And Superman is sufficiently iconic and sufficiently tied up with the concept of America that changing his skin colour instantly opens up all kinds of questions about society and the way we view people based on their appearance.

If this were a less iconic character I might be inclined to agree. But it's Superman.

...but is this really the way to do it? In the format with the absolute most eyes on it, in a 'one chance at it' format?

If not now, when?

This is a crux point for racial issues in America, and probably the high water mark of superhero movies for the next couple of generations. This is absolutely the time to do this. Let's not get caught up in that white liberal "Ooh maybe we're just not ready" bullshit. DC isn't going to suddenly become better, and this moment won't come back. They have to do this now.

JUST HAVE ONE SUPERMAN THAT CAN DO ALL THE SEWING

DEFUND SUPERMAN.

Miles Morales? Is he Hispanic?

His mum's Latina and his dad's black. I can't remember why he has his mum's surname.

[wooders1978]

Miles Morales? Is he Hispanic?

Well his mum is lathino, but his dad, presumably is also "morales" - so yes he very probably is

Edit: Or what M6 said about him having his mums surname for some reason

[El Unicornio, mang]

Miles Morales? Is he Hispanic?

I thought he might be because of the name, but he's described as a black character from what I can find online. Although Hispanics can technically be any race, including white or black.

[Mister Six]

Well his mum is lathino, but his dad, presumably is also "morales" - so yes he very probably is

Edit: Or what M6 said about him having his mums surname for some reason

Miles's dad is called Jefferson Davis, apparently.

[Blumf]

Edit: Or what M6 said about him having his mums surname for some reason

Being splashed with radioactive waste during a meteor storm caused his name to mutate.

[Jerzy Bondov]

I hope Superman absolutely leathers a room full of honkys

[El Unicornio, mang]

He can't fly, but he is fly

[purlieu]

where are the Hispanic superheroes?

Cisco Ramon / Vibe and Esperanza Garcia / Ultraviolet in the TV version of The Flash, Rene Ramirez / Wild Dog in Arrow, Elena Rodriguez / Yo-Yo and Robbie Reyes / Ghost Rider in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.. Makkari and Ajak in the upcoming Eternals movie.

Or Asian

Daisy Johnson / Quake and Melinda May in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Tatsu Yamashiro in Arrow. Kingo, Gilgamesh and Sersi in the upcoming Eternals movie. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings is coming out this year too.

[El Unicornio, mang]

OK, well I'm glad there's going to be more of a mix coming up. I never watched either of those shows, still feel like there could have been room in the 23 previously released movies though. I've been rewatching them all in story chronology order, got up to Ant-Man last night, which I like but noted it was just the typical Hispanic stereotype sidekick/background characters portrayed.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Why shouldn't a massive mainstream comic book movie try to make a point about racial politics? Even if it's something as straightforward as 'black people in America have a different experience to white people'. These films are constantly being accused of having no depth and being empty special effects show reels, but apparently it's also insincere pandering for them to try to be anything more. Give it a chance it might be really really good. I can't imagine Coates would be interested in this project if it didn't give him a chance to say something about race.

[phantom_power]

It would be a massive missed opportunity NOT to talk about the experience of black America in a film with such a big reach among white people, especially young white people

[purlieu]

I never watched either of those shows, still feel like there could have been room in the 23 previously released movies though.

The TV shows seem to be far more willing to include underrepresented groups than the films, probably because they have a much smaller and more niche audience. DC's Arrowverse shows take it to the extreme - after a certain point, almost every single new character introduced seems to be either BAME or LGBTQ. It would be nice if at least some of that could trickle into the movie side of things.

[Mister Six]

Aye, on the POC front, DC's Legends of Tomorrow (the only Arrowverse show I watch) has featured Firestorm (black), Zari and Behrad Tomasz (both Persian), Wally West/Flash (black), Aste Logue (black), Mona Wu (Asian), Vixen and Charlie (black, same actress for both) and Hawkgirl (black). And probably others but I skipped a bunch of season one because it was terrible.