Wrestling 2021: The Big Thread Machine

[peanutbutter]

It's really not that hard to avoid big marquee matches, you just need to do loads and loads of tag matches. WWE have this terrible habit of burning any big match to death once they do it too by having a fuckload of rematches.

[up_the_hampipe]

AEW has a huge roster and there's still tons of marquee matches they haven't even so much as teased yet. For example, off the top of my head, Cody and Mox have never really interacted, same with Hangman and Mox. Or Darby and Omega.

They're really good at protecting people and not over-saturating things. Someone like Wardlow is a great example, a guy with a ton of potential but doesn't wrestle every week. His Dynamite matches have been minimal but always special.

Plus they only have four PPVs per year. They've always said TV is their lifeblood.

Their promotional style seems to be throwing big things at the audience that they could hold back on, just as a hungry ratings grab, so I'm sure all those pairings you've mentioned aren't far off. It's a sense of "you've GOT to watch this week, this is HUGE" that they're pushing for non-stop, and I can just see it burning out.

It's a concern so they survive in the long-run. I mean, I'm sure it's exciting to watch every week so it's hard to see the forest for the trees. If they've really managed to bag Punk and Bryan, that'll really help. But the antidote to WWE's stagnant, repetitive weekly programming isn't necessarily a weekly cumfest. All I know is that I see so much going on from AEW all the time, and I should be excited by it, but I'm struggling because it doesn't feel as special in that environment already.

[BeardFaceMan]

AEW definitely have a bloated roster, they have too many good people and they're trying to fit them all on tv so they have lots of factions, managers, spokespeople etc and they burn through angles too quickly. They could definitely do with slowing things down a bit, at the very least this new tv show needs to have different people on it than Dynamite, no point at all using the same people on both shows, that'll just exacerbate the problem. And if they keep doing all this stuff on free tv, why would people pay for PPVs, what's going to be special about them?

[kitsofan34]

Are people legitimately suggesting AEW are overly stacking Dynamite cards? Here are the last five, followed by next week's.


30/6.
AEW World Tag Team Title Eliminator Match
Eddie Kingston & Penta El Zero Miedo (w/Alex Abrahantes) vs. The Young Bucks (Matt Jackson & Nick Jackson) (w/Brandon Cutler)

Singles Match
Jack Evans vs. Jungle Boy

AEW TNT Title Match
Miro (c) vs. Brian Pillman Jr.

Tag Team Match
Nyla Rose & Vickie Guerrero vs. Dr. Britt Baker DMD & Rebel

Singles Match
Sammy Guevara vs. MJF


7/7.

South Beach Strap Match
Cody Rhodes (w/Arn Anderson) vs. QT Marshall (w/Aaron Solow & Nick Comoroto)

Six Man Tag Team Match
The Inner Circle (Jake Hager, Ortiz & Santana) (w/Konnan) vs. The Pinnacle (Cash Wheeler, Dax Harwood & Wardlow) (w/Tully Blanchard)

Singles Match
Matt Sydal vs. Andrade El Idolo (w/Vickie Guerrero)

Mixed Tag Team Match
Kris Statlander & Orange Cassidy vs. The Hardy Family Office (The Blade & The Bunny)

AEW World Tag Team Title Street Fight
The Young Bucks (Matt Jackson & Nick Jackson) (w/Brandon Cutler) (c) vs. Eddie Kingston & Penta El Zero Miedo.


14/7.
IWGP United States Heavyweight Title Match
Jon Moxley (c) vs. Karl Anderson

FTW Title Match
Brian Cage (c) vs. Ricky Starks (w/Hook & Powerhouse Hobbs)

Singles Match
Matt Hardy vs. Christian Cage

Singles Match
Sammy Guevara vs. Wheeler Yuta (w/Chuck Taylor & Orange Cassidy)

Singles Match
Yuka Sakazaki vs. Penelope Ford

Coffin Match
Ethan Page vs. Darby Allin

21/7.

First Labour Of Jericho Match
Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Spears (w/Tully Blanchard)

Singles Match
Frankie Kazarian vs. Doc Gallows (w/Karl Anderson)

Singles Match
Darby Allin (w/Sting) vs. Wheeler Yuta (w/Orange Cassidy)

AEW Women's World Title Match
Dr. Britt Baker DMD (w/Rebel) (c) vs. Nyla Rose (w/Vickie Guerrero)

Singles Match
Orange Cassidy vs. The Blade (w/The Bunny)

IWGP United States Heavyweight Title Texas Death Match
Jon Moxley (c) vs. Lance Archer (w/Jake Roberts)


28/7.
Ten Man Elimination Tag Team Match
Adam Page & The Dark Order (Alex Reynolds, Evil Uno, John Silver & Stu Grayson) vs. The Elite (Doc Gallows, Karl Anderson, Kenny Omega, Matt Jackson & Nick Jackson) (w/Brandon Cutler & MT Nakazawa)

Tag Team Match
FTR (Cash Wheeler & Dax Harwood) (w/Tully Blanchard) vs. The Inner Circle (Ortiz & Santana) (w/Konnan)

IWGP United States Heavyweight Title Match
Lance Archer (c) vs. Hikuleo (w/King Haku)

Six Man Tag Team Match
Christian Cage & The Jurassic Express (Jungle Boy & Luchasaurus) (w/Marko Stunt) vs. The Hardy Family Office (Angelico, Isiah Kassidy & Marq Quen) (w/Matt Hardy)

Singles Match
Thunder Rosa vs. Julia Hart (w/Brian Pillman Jr. & Griff Garrison)

Second Labour Of Jericho No Rules Match
Chris Jericho vs. Nick Gage.



Next week, 4/8.
Singles Match
Christian Cage (w/Jungle Boy) vs. The Blade (w/Matt Hardy)

NWA World Women's Title Eliminator Match
The Bunny vs. Leyla Hirsch

AEW TNT Title Match
Miro (c) vs. Lee Johnson (w/Dustin Rhodes)

Singles Match
Malakai Black vs. Cody Rhodes


Where on earth is the hot shotting? At a very generous push I would say they are putting a lot of hardcore matches in the main event, but that's it. Matt Sydal vs Andrade. Karl Anderson vs Moxley. Hikeulo vs Archer. Matt Hardy vs Christian. These are the dream matches we the fans have been screaming out for for years, and AEW just hand them out to us on free television broadcasts. For shame, TK, for shame.

[Old Thrashbarg]

Ha, yeah, I don't understand the complaint that they're burning through angles too quickly. They've got multiple stories still running from their very first show!

[up_the_hampipe]

Where on earth is the hot shotting? At a very generous push I would say they are putting a lot of hardcore matches in the main event, but that's it. Matt Sydal vs Andrade. Karl Anderson vs Moxley. Hikeulo vs Archer. Matt Hardy vs Christian. These are the dream matches we the fans have been screaming out for for years, and AEW just hand them out to us on free television broadcasts. For shame, TK, for shame.

These are all pretty stacked cards for a weekly television show. They don't have to be dream matches, you overly defensive little goblin.

[BeardFaceMan]

Ha, yeah, I don't understand the complaint that they're burning through angles too quickly. They've got multiple stories still running from their very first show!

It's possible to do both, they do have more than 1 angle on each show. And it's not just going through angles quickly, it's overbooking the angles too and throwing as much shit in there as they can. And they do that because they have too many people on their roster and they try and use everyone. Like the TNT title going from being the most important thing on the show when Darby and Cody had it, to Miro barely defending it, or endless promos from Jade Cargill about how she's that bitch, only to then not see her for weeks. They have a bit too much going on to fit everything in. That's a good complaint to have though when you compare them to WWE's weekly shows.

[Ja'moke]

Yeah I find it a weird complaint to be honest. There's nothing wrong with making entertaining cards each week with matches that have stakes and tie into current storylines (some storylines that have been going on months, or years in regards to Hangman and Omega).

[up_the_hampipe]

Yeah I find it a weird complaint to be honest.

It's not a complaint, it's a concern.

[BeardFaceMan]

Yes the concern is that they are overdoing it by making entertaining cards and risking burnout when they could be just as entertaining and still have matches that have stakes etc if they slowed down a bit. I really do think they're being hurt by the size of their roster, you can't fault their ambition but they just don't have the outlets to consistently use them all. I think that's why they have so many factions, it's a good way of keeping everyone on tv and in everyones minds without them having to wrestle every week.

[Deanjam]

Dominos are unhappy with the pizza slicer segment. Apparently their add ran right next to it.

[gmoney]

I think it's a strength to have a big roster, that not everyone is on every week. To take the case of Jade Cargill, I don't want her on TV every week. I'd be sick of her by now. But I haven't forgotten about her, and next time she appears I'll be like "ah cool, Jade Cargill, she's mint".

Back in the glory days of wrestling (i.e when I was a lad) 88-94, you didn't see everyone every week at all, so it was a treat to see people every so often and made stars of people like Rick Martel, Jake Roberts, Mr Perfect et al, who were midcarders but meant a lot because they didn't get overexposed.

[BeardFaceMan]

It's better than the alternative of not having enough depth on your roster, for sure. But they're not giving things time to breathe and catch on, everything has to be rushed through because they're rotating everyone on and off tv because they have so many people. I'm not sure it being a good system to get midcarders over is a good thing either, not when they have so much top-tier talent.

And when it comes to someone like Cargill, sure, the fans like you or I will remember her, but will the casual or new viewer? If you want to get people over with a new audience they need to be on tv every week, problem is they're trying to push everyone at once.

[boki]

Dominos are unhappy with the pizza slicer segment. Apparently their add ran right next to it.

They should grow a pair and introduce a limited edition human flesh meatfeast to capitalise.

[Ja'moke]

The rotating roster is one of the big plus points of AEW to me. I like that it's not the same people wrestling every week and how each week has its own focus. That's what was so great about NXT from 2014-2018, that the roster kept moving around and things felt fresh - now you have people like Ciampa and Cole who have been there for years going through the motions.

And given how many people AEW have gotten over during the pandemic, I don't see it as a hindrance. Jungle Boy wasn't on TV every week during the pandemic or even really involved in any major storylines. But when he did appear he was presented well... and he's been one of the most over stars since crowds returned. The same goes for someone like Sammy Guevara, he doesn't wrestle on TV that often but is still highlighted and is super over with the crowd.

I'm also fine with putting people into factions to get them on TV. It works.

The only major issue with AEW for me is the same as its always been, the women's division booking. It started to improve earlier this year but has regressed again.

[BeardFaceMan]

They should grow a pair and introduce a limited edition human flesh meatfeast to capitalise.

PBR did a nice tweet in response.

The rotating roster is one of the big plus points of AEW to me. I like that it's not the same people wrestling every week and how each week has its own focus. That's what was so great about NXT from 2014-2018, that the roster kept moving around and things felt fresh - now you have people like Ciampa and Cole who have been there for years going through the motions.

Again, you're looking at this from a fans perspective, I'm looking at it from the perspective of trying to grow a new audience.

[Wentworth Smith]

It's better than the alternative of not having enough depth on your roster, for sure. But they're not giving things time to breathe and catch on, everything has to be rushed through because they're rotating everyone on and off tv because they have so many people. I'm not sure it being a good system to get midcarders over is a good thing either, not when they have so much top-tier talent.

And when it comes to someone like Cargill, sure, the fans like you or I will remember her, but will the casual or new viewer? If you want to get people over with a new audience they need to be on tv every week, problem is they're trying to push everyone at once.

Strongly disagree about the midcarders. When WWE was at its peak, the Attitude Era, EVERYONE was over and it made a much better watch and their bigger stars were the biggest there have been except for maybe the Hogan era.

I would agree about some things not being given enough time to breath though, and even some things that are given time they don't quite nail the important bits or sell them clearly enough.

I've seen it on here that the Hangman Page thing is the best slow burner in wrestling but I would say there are some leaps in that as some of it is pretty vaguely presented. His whole being down because his friends had deserted him and he didn't think he was good enough arc mainly consisted of him having a drink... which he was doing anyway.

[Ja'moke]

Again, you're looking at this from a fans perspective, I'm looking at it from the perspective of trying to grow a new audience.

Wrestling is always going to be a niche audience. And after years of WWE treating its fans with contempt, I'm fine with a wrestling product that actually tries to please its fans. Let the suits worry about those business side of things and just try and enjoy it as a fan.

Plus, with Dynamite doing record ratings and been the number one show on cable the past three Wednesdays, it seems the audience IS growing.

[Huxleys Babkins]

Hopefully Rampage will give things a bit more room to breathe.

[BeardFaceMan]

Wrestling is always going to be a niche audience. And after years of WWE treating its fans with contempt, I'm fine with a wrestling product that actually tries to please its fans. Let the suits worry about those business side of things and just try and enjoy it as a fan.

It's almost like I already said that, isn't it?

Not that I care, I don't really want the show to change and don't really care about ratings, I think it's doing more than fine as it is, it might be hard to grow an audience with regular content like that on tv though.

We're talking about growth and stability. You can go on about the rotation system working for NXT, but what are their ratings like? Raw and Smackdown were known as the places to go for entertainment, NXT was where you went for wrestling. The content was different and the ratings reflect that. AEW need to find a happy medium between the two, so far they've only been appealing to wrestling fans. NXT could afford to be a pure wrestling fan show because WWE had Smackdown and Raw to pick up the slack.

[Ja'moke]

I think it's fine and not worth worrying about. AEW is on its strongest run of ratings in its history, just sold 17,000 tickets to the Arthur Ash stadium show (with no card announced and that happened BEFORE the Punk and Bryan rumours), sold out All Out in half an hour, and is about to bring in Punk and Bryan. Whatever they're doing is working.

[Spiteface]

I think they're doing great in getting a WRESTLING audience, even bringing lapsed fans like myself back in. The next step is that mainstream/casual audience.

This means a big push to let more people know of AEW - It was often remarked with TNA during the Russo years and Hogan/Bischoff years, that some ex-WWE guys would go to TNA and those casual viewers didn't even know they were wrestling elsewhere. People thought the likes of Booker T and Rob Van Dam had retired or something.


I almost think at this point they should just announce Punk ahead of time. They're not confirming it, but it feels like the cat's out of the bag. So use him to pop a TV rating or buyrate by advertising they got at least one of the biggest free agents out there. Fuck the UFC losses, it's still CM Punk.

[Ja'moke]

They've pretty much-announced Punk without directly saying it. The United Centre announcement, followed by the close-up on the fans all chanting CM Punk, followed by JR saying things are about to get exciting so jump aboard and then the Darby "best in the world" promo.

I'm sure the references will get even more direct in the coming weeks. But they've already sold 12,000 tickets for that show in the pre-sale. Punk is clearly still a draw in Chicago.

[BeardFaceMan]

I think they're doing great in getting a WRESTLING audience, even bringing lapsed fans like myself back in. The next step is that mainstream/casual audience.

This means a big push to let more people know of AEW - It was often remarked with TNA during the Russo years and Hogan/Bischoff years, that some ex-WWE guys would go to TNA and those casual viewers didn't even know they were wrestling elsewhere. People thought the likes of Booker T and Rob Van Dam had retired or something.


I almost think at this point they should just announce Punk ahead of time. They're not confirming it, but it feels like the cat's out of the bag. So use him to pop a TV rating or buyrate by advertising they got at least one of the biggest free agents out there. Fuck the UFC losses, it's still CM Punk.

I think that ties in with what we are saying though, CM Punk is only going to draw wrestling fans, not mainstream ones so it doesn't make much sense to announce it ahead of time, they won't bring in that many new viewers. Chances are the only people who have heard of him outside of wrestling are MMA fans and I can't imagine they're queuing up to watch him. AEW do need to work on getting their name out there to non-wrestling places. They've got some serious momentum going in the wrestling world, its going to be interesting to see how they build on that.

[Timothy]

Imo it makes a lot of sense to announce it ahead of time. There are going to be a LOT of wrestling fans that might not have watched AEW or not watch weekly and will purely tune in for Punk. Their new show start will off huge.

They kinda already announced him without mentioning him anyway.

[Ja'moke]

I've noticed multiple threads every day on Reddit of lapsed fans or WWE only fans asking how to catch up or where to start with AEW now that Punk (and Bryan) are coming in. Punk has a very loyal fanbase and a lot of those fans stopped watching wrestling once he left, and I think a lot will come back for him (just as they came back to WWE during his pipebomb era).

[BeardFaceMan]

I still think it's more impactful for the wrestling fan to have suprises rather than announcements, it give the show a 'you can't miss this' feel, people will turn in to watch because they won't want to miss anything. By announcing it you're just giving people one specific date to watch, suprise them good and they'll be tuning in every week. Like you say, fans are already interested and want to watch and that's just because of speculation. Not to mention the wrestlers get a bigger audience pop when they arrive as a suprise.

[Ja'moke]

I still think it's more impactful for the wrestling fan to have suprises rather than announcements, it give the show a 'you can't miss this' feel, people will turn in to watch because they won't want to miss anything. By announcing it you're just giving people one specific date to watch, suprise them good and they'll be tuning in every week. Like you say, people are already interested and want to watch and that's just because of speculation. Not to mention the wrestlers get a bigger audience pop when they arrive as a suprise.

I definitely agree with that in general, but I get why they're doing wink and nudge with Punk because that's their biggest signing ever and they're trying to sell out the biggest arena they've been in.

But I do love how anyone can just turn up on AEW from Sting to Chavo to Nick Gage to Haku to Tanahashi. Definitely gives it an unpredictable, unmissable vibe.

[BeardFaceMan]

That's a good problem to have with Punk though isn't it, he's not really big enough to announce but he's too big to keep quiet so they've had a go at doing both. I can see why TNT would want to promote Sting's arrival but be ok with Punk being a suprise.

[Timothy]

Punk not big enough to announce?!

He is the biggest fish they could get!