Phwoar thread redux

[jamiefairlie]

But is ignoring it the way to stand up to it? Perhaps saying 'Fuck you and your narrow concept of beauty. I like this person.' is the way to go.

Yeah but is that not just still judging people, albeit on different criteria?

Anyhoo, I appreciate I'm way to the edge of the spectrum on this one, as I said to my wife on our family walk this morning...

[JamesTC]

Can I post this in the Phwoar thread please?

[Buelligan]

They aren't being judged as people from their surface characteristics. Surface characteristics are being admired. Not in supplement to anything, not in substitute for anything, not in supplanting of any other quality. There's nothing intrinsically immoral about that.

The hysterics about 'tidal waves' ignores what we know about humans, and possibly your own brain but yes, please tell us how to build our repressed, clean puritan society that has never ever historically led to increased abuse and fetishisation of women's bodies.

This is nothing to do with whether the thing's immoral.  It's about whether treating another human being as an object is healthy, either for individuals and how they relate to one another or how that behaviour affects our society. 

[Jerzy Bondov]

Can I post this in the Phwoar thread please?

Yeah I like the beardy bloke who seems to be holding an anachronistic firearm. I want to suck him off.

[pigamus]

Read the first three pages of that thread, it's been there, grinning in the face of every new poster that clicks on it for years, read it and tell me about affirmation and positivity. 

The first page of that thread is ruined by one individual being an absolutely indefensible cunt. The rest of it I honestly don't think is that bad.

[Johnny Yesno]

Read the first three pages of that thread, it's been there, grinning in the face of every new poster that clicks on it for years, read it and tell me about affirmation and positivity.

It's a mixed bag. A twat is mocked for their stupid shit on page 3.

[St_Eddie]

Can I post this in the Phwoar thread please?

Peado.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

The developing poll results at the top of the page are interesting, just like Brexit, so it is.

[JamesTC]

It is clearly something that polarises opinion down the middle so you aren't going to please both sides.

The current thread is coming to 100 pages so will be replaced soon so maybe it could be an idea to start the new thread with some ground rules and not link to the old one. The ground rules can just be an attempt to at least stop the really nasty comments without inhibiting the 99% of posts that aren't problematic.

[JamesTC]

Peado.

You'll be posting on Glindr next.

[Buelligan]

It's a mixed bag. A twat is mocked for their stupid shit on page 3.

AFAIC, it's an abysmal advert for CaB and a very skewed one.  And that's a bad thing. 

What's worse though, is that that kind of objectification, that callous lack of empathy for others, underlies, IMO, a lot of the violence visited on women and other vicitimised groups.  I've ignored it for years and I'll continue to ignore it but it says something that I don't think we should ignore.

[Johnny Yesno]

The ground rules can just be an attempt to at least stop the really nasty comments without inhibiting the 99% of posts that aren't problematic.

Rule 1 being if you can't think of anything positive to say about the person in an image stfu.

[Blue Jam]

Blue Jam

I can't believe you avoid the the cricket threads. Up there with the snooker threads, easy. It probably helps if you like cricket or being as hateful as possible, but some of the best laughs I've had on here in the last couple of years have been with the cricket gang.

Look Mr Honks, you know as well as I do that snooker is like baseball or Formula 1 in that it attracts fans who don't care for any other sport.

Also I worked at Lord's back in the day and it was full of twats.

I am open to having my mind changed though:

https://cricfit.com/sexiest-cricketers-currently-in-international-cricket/

[Chedney Honks]

If it upsets people or puts anyone off posting here, I'm happy for it to go. That's my simple conclusion on this one. Same as I stopped saying aids tier after someone PM'd me to say it upset them a bit. There's lots of other hateful, horrible things to say instead which don't cause as much harm, I've found.

[Midas]

Many moons ago, when I still used Facebook, I remember logging in one day to find a string of distraught posts written online by a woman who was horrified to have stumbled across an obscure forum that had been set up by anonymous local people in our community. This was a forum filled with lust threads and photos of local young women side-by-side with pictures of porn stars. She found most of her photos from Facebook had been uploaded, punctuated with lecherous comments. She found users sharing links to homemade composites of cut out girl's faces stuck onto gleaming naked bodies. She read sexual fantasies written by online strangers using her name. She ended up contacting the police and I think eventually the forum was closed down.

Before registering for an account this year I'd been lurking on CaB for a long time. I know the PHWOARR thread is in actuality fairly harmless and nothing whatsoever like the horrible forum described above (and some users try to make it a place of inclusivity and body positivity) but as a newcomer when I first found that thread I clearly remember feeling this discomfort, this creeping dread that there might be something sinister hidden beneath the surface and it took me a long time to register for an account because of this. I suspect there may be other lurkers in a similar position who may even be reading my post right now (hello) and I think this is something that should be reflected on when maintaining a welcoming community.

I'm getting quite tired now so the rest of this post may not make any sense.

At what point does leering over public photos become deviant/wrong?
I don't know.
Is it okay to leer over people simply because they're famous?
I don't know.
Is lechery harmful in itself or is it the online display of licentiousness that's damaging?
I don't know.
Isn't this all a bit puritanical?
I don't know.
Isn't honesty about attractiveness and sexuality a positive thing?
Sometimes.
Why are other provocative threads acceptable whilst the PHWOARR thread is questionable?
Intent.
What is the intent of the PHWOARR thread?
I don't know.

I suspect some posters go to that thread with very different intentions which has muddied the waters when trying to form an opinion on it. All I feel is cognitive dissonance. If I wasn't so utterly gorgeous in real life[nb]I should have picked Narcissus as a username, in hindsight.[/nb] I think it'd be nice to see someone showing appreciation of atypical physical attributes. On the other hand, if I accidentally found all these online elephant men sticking my face into the abyss and comparing me to others I would probably start to feel paranoid and deeply uncomfortable.

I really thought I'd have a firmer position by the end of this post. I don't like the PHWOARR thread. I don't click on it. I think there should be a space to discuss attractiveness in some form on CaB.

[Blue Jam]

Rule 1 being if you can't think of anything positive to say about the person in an image stfu.

YES. I do find it really unpleasant when people make sneering digs at other people's taste in humans. And it's not nice to have a dig at the person in the photo either.

Like a few passive-aggressive posts clearly aimed at me in this thread. Cheers guys.

[bgmnts]

I think you all have appalling taste in humans you want to fuck,  especially you-know-who, and its disgusting.

[Blue Jam]

On second thoughts, I realise I have critised one person's taste in humans, and I am in fact a massive hypocrite.

...so if you're reading this, Billie Piper, I'm sorry.

[Pingers]

I think it should go, simply because CaB is woefully non-diverse, and I think the thread will put some people off from hanging around and contributing. It would be a better and more interesting forum if there were more women and Black and brown people on it. And people with hair.

[Johnny Yesno]

YES. I do find it really unpleasant when people make sneering digs at other people's taste in humans. And it's not nice to have a dig at the person in the photo either.

For me, it's the latter. I'm happy to get involved in a bit of argy-bargy over music taste if anyone's up for it because that's not a human being.

[Johnny Yesno]

On second thoughts, I realise I have critised one person's taste in humans, and I am in fact a massive hypocrite.

...so if you're reading this, Billie Piper, I'm sorry.

Oh, fuck, so have I. Sorry Lozza, ya racist little scamp.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Many moons ago, when I still used Facebook, I remember logging in one day to find a string of distraught posts written online by a woman who was horrified to have stumbled across an obscure forum that had been set up by anonymous local people in our community. This was a forum filled with lust threads and photos of local young women side-by-side with pictures of porn stars. She found most of her photos from Facebook had been uploaded, punctuated with lecherous comments. She found users sharing links to homemade composites of cut out girl's faces stuck onto gleaming naked bodies. She read sexual fantasies written by online strangers using her name. She ended up contacting the police and I think eventually the forum was closed down.

Before registering for an account this year I'd been lurking on CaB for a long time. I know the PHWOARR thread is in actuality fairly harmless and nothing whatsoever like the horrible forum described above (and some users try to make it a place of inclusivity and body positivity) but as a newcomer when I first found that thread I clearly remember feeling this discomfort, this creeping dread that there might be something sinister hidden beneath the surface and it took me a long time to register for an account because of this. I suspect there may be other lurkers in a similar position who may even be reading my post right now (hello) and I think this is something that should be reflected on when maintaining a welcoming community.

I'm getting quite tired now so the rest of this post may not make any sense.

At what point does leering over public photos become deviant/wrong?
I don't know.
Is it okay to leer over people simply because they're famous?
I don't know.
Is lechery harmful in itself or is it the online display of licentiousness that's damaging?
I don't know.
Isn't this all a bit puritanical?
I don't know.
Isn't honesty about attractiveness and sexuality a positive thing?
Sometimes.
Why are other provocative threads acceptable whilst the PHWOARR thread is questionable?
Intent.
What is the intent of the PHWOARR thread?
I don't know.

I suspect some posters go to that thread with very different intentions which has muddied the waters when trying to form an opinion on it. All I feel is cognitive dissonance. If I wasn't so utterly gorgeous in real life[nb]I should have picked Narcissus as a username, in hindsight.[/nb] I think it'd be nice to see someone showing appreciation of atypical physical attributes. On the other hand, if I accidentally found all these online elephant men sticking my face into the abyss and comparing me to others I would probably start to feel paranoid and deeply uncomfortable.

I really thought I'd have a firmer position by the end of this post. I don't like it. I don't click on it. I think there should be a space to discuss attractiveness in some form on CaB.

I thought this was a really good post about the thread in question.

[jamiefairlie]

This is nothing to do with whether the thing's immoral.  It's about whether treating another human being as an object is healthy, either for individuals and how they relate to one another or how that behaviour affects our society.

Totally agree. It's the objectification that's the problem, not whether it's praise or negativity, they're both flip sides of the same issue. Saying it's ok as long as we stick to positive comments doesn't get to the heart of it, it still implicitly states that it's ok to judge other people's appearance as some sort of art appraisal,  and I don't think it is ok. It's the same attitude that allows leery blokes to say 'why's she taking the hump, I was paying her a compliment', yeah but why do you think you have the right to judge her in the first place? By the way, women do this too of course, it's not just men.

[Blue Jam]

I think it should go, simply because CaB is woefully non-diverse

How diverse is CaB exactly? Shall we have a poll? It is census year after all.

[greenman]

My main concern is that someone else might feel the same way about that thread as I feel about Page Three (which I talked about the first page of last year's thread). Another female poster on that thread mentioned that they hardly ever contribute to CaB because they feel like this place is a boy's club where women are inevitably going to be judged for their looks. That's really sad, and for a place which otherwise seems for the most part fairly progressive, not good enough.

I only rarely look at the PHWOAARR thread myself and I don't personally have a problem with its existence/with people talking about who they fancy (and I know it's not just cishet blokes that post in there), it's sort of interesting in a weird way to know what people find attractive and some of the chat in there is quite entertaining - but if it's making anyone feel excluded or feel like shit, then that bears scrutiny.

The stuff that's bothered me in that thread (from what I've seen) is

- The weird coy snobbery about fancying porn stars vs. fancying women with more "acceptable" jobs (especially if they're in politics/science etc.) - to me, that plays into dangerously SWERF-y/Madonna-Whore territory

- The odd comment about how someone's looks have "gone downhill" - yes, people are less likely to fancy women as we get older. Cheers for the reminder, I'd actually forgotten about that for almost a whole thirty seconds before you brought it up again.

A male perspective I spose but personally I'v rarely got the sense that actual posters are judged on looks beyond that thread were people willingly submit photos to be mocked/shopped. Honestly I have always found CaB the least sexually aggressive forum I'v posted on even if its male dominated, perhaps the tendency for the "edgy irony" to sometimes come across as not so ironic with "by the time I'm finished with them" or "let themselves go" style comments?

"to study Legend Gary is to be studied by Legend Gary"

I can see where some of the "coy snobbery" comes from basically saying that you find people attractive without them having to present themselves in way that might be viewed as "sexy" or having a certain look. It does as you say though often come across as much of a criticism of the reverse and personally I am more comfortable mentioning attraction to someone if they choose to present themselves in that fashion publically.

I would tend to agree that really its a bit of a nothing thread though, when theres any indepth discussion about attraction to some public figure and general admiration for them it tends to be in other threads.

[JamesTC]

How diverse is CaB exactly? Shall we have a poll? It is census year after all.

Whether man, woman or non-binary; everybody on CaB is bald and suffers from phimosis. Perhaps not physically but definitely in spirit.

[canadagoose]

In general I'm not sure what to think. I've posted in there before with pictures of people of all genders. If it does remain, I feel like it needs more of the likes of All Surrogate and Blue Jam redressing the gender balance somewhat, just to make it fair. And I'm not even that fussed about men. But still... maybe it's just one of those things that we can do without. I dunno. Whatever happens happens IMO, I'm not bothered either way. I hope it's not going down for SWERFy "it's bad when women show off their bodies" reasons though.

Worst series of threads on here IMO has got to be the cesspit that was the FUCKING Corbyn threads. Glad they're gone, although there are still echoes of them in the current series of Labour threads. Thankfully the "everything Labour does is great" hackery is dead at least.

I know Neil isn't fond of megathreads, but it'd be nice if we could have something to unite on. Remember the Hazy TV Memories threads? Or the "shite on your Facebook" threads? I quite like the sense of community and shared experiences in those. Would be nice to have maybe one more.

[Pingers]

How diverse is CaB exactly? Shall we have a poll? It is census year after all.

I know it's self-selecting, but the What do you really look like?  thread is a succession of white faces. And you're pretty hard pushed to find one without a beard (sorry if you have a beard)

[Schrodingers Cat]

As others have said, enough people have said it makes them uncomfortable to be clear it is probably time to let it reach 100 pages and die. I shall miss All Surrogate's posts in there, but probably, reluctantly, a price worth paying, if we can make CaB feel a bit more welcoming.

Whether man, woman or non-binary; everybody on CaB is bald and suffers from phimosis. Perhaps not physically but definitely in spirit.

How dare you? Due to the lockdown related closure of barbershops, I currently have a, quite frankly, glorious mane of hair right now. Seriously, it's shoulder length and flowing. I even have to tie it up to stop it going in my eyes.

Spoiler alert

However, I do genuinely think I might have phimosis

[close]

[holyzombiejesus]

In general I'm not sure what to think. I've posted in there before with pictures of people of all genders. If it does remain, I feel like it needs more of the likes of All Surrogate and Blue Jam redressing the gender balance somewhat, just to make it fair. And I'm not even that fussed about men. But still... maybe it's just one of those things that we can do without. I dunno. Whatever happens happens IMO, I'm not bothered either way. I hope it's not going down for SWERFy "it's bad when women show off their bodies" reasons though.

Worst series of threads on here IMO has got to be the cesspit that was the FUCKING Corbyn threads. Glad they're gone, although there are still echoes of them in the current series of Labour threads. Thankfully the "everything Labour does is great" hackery is dead at least.

I know Neil isn't fond of megathreads, but it'd be nice if we could have something to unite on. Remember the Hazy TV Memories threads? Or the "shite on your Facebook" threads? I quite like the sense of community and shared experiences in those. Would be nice to have maybe one more.

The Corbyn threads (and the subsequent Labour ones) were generally genuinely supportive and inspiring places, not sure why you'd use the word cesspit to describe them.

I think it's odd to say that just because the wanking thread is entirely made up of male posters then that makes it more acceptable. Just sack the horrible fucking thing off.