Author Topic: Star Wars: A New Dope  (Read 4803 times)

Blumf

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Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2021, 06:19:14 PM »
Sorry if someone's brought this up already but on Disney+ they've got the insane Utapau chase animatic that Spielberg dicked around with for Revenge Of The Sith and it's hilarious and certainly the funniest thing Spielberg's ever been involved with. It could be on the Blu-ray too, not sure.

This?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6q2PD-ANsw

Love the expressionless action: "oh a train"

Glebe

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Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2021, 06:51:34 PM »
“This is such a drag” is quite possibly the worst line in any of the Star Wars movies.

Good call!

Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2021, 07:11:39 PM »
Worse than "Yipee"?

Glebe

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Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2021, 07:14:02 PM »
Worse than "Yipee"?

Possibly. Also have to call out Chewy for doing that Tarzan yell in Jedi (and Sith, I think) and spoiling the Star Wars Universe illusion.

Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2021, 07:16:45 PM »
Phantom Menace was definitely the best one.

There were a few good ideas for set pieces and stuff, and it did have an interesting visual style. Probably needed a bit of work on the script, story and characters, but as it's a kids film it holds up ok I think. The other 2 are all over the place, particularly with tone. ROTS gets way too dark I think, did we really need a scene where we are told Anakin has just killed a load of kids?

I watched it again last night (Hadn't seen it for nearly a decade, then twice in a few weeks - Midlife crisis in full swing) and, yeah, although it has some of the worst moments of the whole saga (JJB, "Yippee", the "Roger, Roger" droids, dumb dialogue etc) it also has some of the best scenes and, yeah, the best visual style of the prequels.

Compared to the cartoony feel of Clones and Sith, Menace actually looks and feels real for the most part. Looking at the filming locations on IMDB, Episode I has the most proper locations listed, with the vast majority of II and III being shot against green screen.


Jupiter Ascending and Valerian both did the whole visually OTT high camp in space thing

Such a shame that the prequels didn't follow the pattern of the original trilogy, with Lucas directing the first before handing over the reins to better directors. Both Luc Besson and the Wachowskis would have been better choices to direct II and III. Even using the same Lucas-penned dialogue, at least they'd have some dynamism and flair to the visuals.



Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2021, 07:17:18 PM »
I probably said this about five minutes after seeing The Force Awakens[1]: One of the major reasons I think the sequel trilogy was bound for ploppiness is that the folk in charge seemed too concerned with it not being like the prequels. Thus we got a setup that barely made sense (because god forbid we have anything resembling political exposition) hyperactive direction (just so long as we don't get any inert dialogue scenes) and quipping galore (to avoid seeming po-faced and because no single character can be the Jar Jar if everyone is).

Kind of ironic for a series in which balance is a key theme.
 1. because I'm so good at television film watching

Good shout. Also we never get the sense of a huge bond between Finn and Rey but the filmmakers keep wanting us to think they're bestest friends. But I just don't see it. You get the sense of a bond between Han and Rey in their short screen time together as Han is impressed by Rey's flying abilities and Rey sees him as a father figure that she's missing in his life. He's also a grump who softens around her so it's sweet. But with Rey and Finn: Meh. Also, we're never told why Rey would give a shit about Luke Skywalker and his legend etc. I do enjoy The Force Awakens, it is good fun but a lot of the setup just needs a bit of work.

Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2021, 07:21:24 PM »
Possibly. Also have to call out Chewy for doing that Tarzan yell in Jedi (and Sith, I think) and spoiling the Star Wars Universe illusion.

Perhaps not as bad, but both Po Dameron's "Your mother" joke and Yoda's "Page turners they are not" quip took me out of the The Last Jedi.

Glebe

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Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2021, 07:26:59 PM »
Yoda's "Page turners they are not"

Possibly referring to the scripts.

Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2021, 07:43:59 PM »
This?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6q2PD-ANsw

Love the expressionless action: "oh a train"

Yeah, that's it; thanks!

Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2021, 07:49:26 PM »
Perhaps not as bad, but both Po Dameron's "Your mother" joke and Yoda's "Page turners they are not" quip took me out of the The Last Jedi.

Ah, I loved that "page turners" line. It was great to see Yoda again actually be funny like he was in the original trilogy.

Yeah the "Your mother" joke wasn't great though Gleeson's comic timing in that scene was pretty good. "Can he hear me? He can hear me?"

Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2021, 08:07:25 PM »
The worst line in the Star Wars universe is when Jar Jar Binks says "poo poo" or something like that.

(Though nonetheless, as I have already successfully proven on this forum on many occasions, Episode I is the best Star Wars film)

TwinPeaks

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Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2021, 08:12:20 PM »
Jupiter Ascending and Valerian both did the whole visually OTT high camp in space thing[1]. They were both huge flops though, so you're probably right that nothing similar is likely to be made again.
 1. I suppose the Asgard scenes in the first Thor film were a bit like that as well
True, all very idiosyncratic directors. At least there's The Matrix 4 to look forward to! Generally I'd like more bizarre shit and less incredibly dull forgettable rubbish like The Rise of Skywalker, and blockbusters that slow down to let characters have conversations would be nice!

mothman

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Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2021, 08:38:19 PM »
One of the major reasons I think the sequel trilogy was bound for ploppiness is that the folk in charge seemed too concerned with it not being like the prequels. Thus we got a setup that barely made sense (because god forbid we have anything resembling political exposition)

That’s as good an explanation for why we were so much thrown into the deep end. “Yeah, there’s a New Republic but we’re not going to tell you anything about it or how it was formed and we’re going to destroy it all in one fell swoop about an hour in anyway. And the Empire are back - somehow - but they’re called the First Order. No we won’t tell you why. And there’s a Rebellion again but now they’re a Resistance... Again, the answer’s no... and they’re led by Leia but she’s a general now not a princess... Yeah, that’s a no again...”

Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2021, 09:33:30 PM »
The odd thing about The Phantom Menace (one of them, anyway) is that it doesn't really have much of a story to tell. Apart from setting up all the chosen one guff, the only plot point of any particular significance is Anakin leaving his mum on Tatooine. His relationship with Amidala could (and probably should) have started from scratch in the second film, as could Palpatine's scheming.

St_Eddie

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Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2021, 10:24:19 PM »
Compared to the cartoony feel of Clones and Sith, Menace actually looks and feels real for the most part. Looking at the filming locations on IMDB, Episode I has the most proper locations listed, with the vast majority of II and III being shot against green screen.

Whilst The Phantom Menace did have the most on-location shooting out of the prequels, there were still a lot of practical effects throughout Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith (more than people tend to realise).  I'd say the main culprit of why those two movies look phony compared to The Phantom Menace is that they were shot on early digital technology, as opposed to Episode I, which was shot on film.  Another resulting issue of this is that both Episodes II and III have a maximum resolution of 1080p.  You'll never be able to see them presented in native 4k, unlike movies shot on film (The Phantom Menace included).

Ah, I loved that "page turners" line. It was great to see Yoda again actually be funny like he was in the original trilogy.

Yoda wasn't really "funny" in the original trilogy though.  He had one brief moment of purposefully playing the fool in order to test Luke's patience when first encountering him in The Empire Strikes Back, in order to see if he would be capable of training Luke or if he would be a liability and have the potential of turning to the dark side.  Aside from a couple of moments of brief lightheartedness after that, he was a pretty serious character.

Rian Johnson seemingly didn't understand the point of the 'testing Luke' scene and so portrayed Yoda as a goofball throughout all of his scenes in The Last Jedi, including having Yoda hit Luke on the head with his stick, which is something he did to R2D2 when deceptively acting the fool in Episode V (and don't even get me started on a force ghost's sudden ability to interact with the physical world). 

Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2021, 10:39:23 PM »
Episodes II and III have a maximum resolution of 1080p.  You'll never be able to see them presented in native 4k
The Phantom Flex Menace.

madhair60

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Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2021, 10:47:37 PM »
yoda's less intense, sillier, more comfortable-seeming character in TLJ was a nice contrast to the portrayal of Luke as fearful and tightly wound. always thought yoda was daft as hell anyway, little kobold riding around on Luke and doing all flips everywhere while talking backwards.

Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2021, 10:59:32 PM »
don't even get me started on a force ghost's sudden ability to interact with the physical world).
Makes sense to me. Jedi can move things with the force and their ghosts are made of the force. Ergo, Jedi ghosts can move things.

Plus, Obi Wan's ghost sat on a log in Return of the Jedi.

idunnosomename

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Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2021, 11:12:41 PM »
around the survivors a perimeter create

St_Eddie

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Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2021, 11:25:17 PM »
Obi Wan's ghost sat on a log in Return of the Jedi.

That's not the same as Yoda hitting Luke with a stick though.  I mean Obi-Wan also doesn't fall through the ground/floor.  He stands on it.  Him sitting on a log is no different to how Rimmer, as a hologram in Red Dwarf, is able to "sit" on a chair or something, yet still unable to physically pick up an object.  He's essentially hovering.  It's traditional ghost logic and that's how it was always portrayed in the original trilogy.  The sequel trilogy breaks that logic by having Ghost-Yoda hit Luke on the head with a stick and Ghost-Luke grab a lightsaber.  If force ghosts can interact with the physical world and brandish sticks and wield lightsabers, whilst being immortal, then why don't they join the heroes in fighting the antagonists?

Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2021, 11:30:38 PM »
They're too busy chilling in Jedi heaven.

madhair60

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Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2021, 11:38:19 PM »
It's traditional ghost logic

ohhh, now I get it

Ant Farm Keyboard

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Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2021, 11:51:09 PM »
That makes a lot of sense. Even when I saw episodes II and III for the first time, I was left with the impression that Lucas just expected Hayden Christiansen to know how to play Anakin Skywalker and didn't actually tell him how to play the character.

The cast from the first film and Lucas himself have been vocal about how he would just have a limited range of instructions for the next take. It was either "Faster!", "More intense!'" or "Faster and more intense!".

St_Eddie

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Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2021, 11:51:53 PM »
ohhh, now I get it

Willfully obtuse as always, I see.  Surely you understand how ghosts are traditionally portrayed within fiction, going right back to works such as A Christmas Carol?  It's the same traditional logic which George Lucas drew upon for the portrayal of Force Ghosts within the original trilogy.  The force was merely an in-universe explanation for why ghosts exist.  Those ghosts still obeyed the same basic rules that they always have throughout traditional fiction... until The Last Jedi came along and "subverted expectations".

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

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Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2021, 12:31:15 AM »
(ghosts aren't real)

Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2021, 01:32:49 AM »
The prequels are mainly quite boring films with bad dialogue and unfocused plot but I do quite like the fight scenes. Count Dooku battering the fuck out of Obi and Ani before getting his hands and head sliced off. Ani vs Obi. Obi vs General Grievous. Dooku vs Yoda. Obi vs Jango Fett. And so on. The choreography really is streets ahead of the original trilogy even if nothing else is. You could almost enjoy it from a Kung Fu action perspective.

Also by the time Revenge of the Sith came out Youtube was invented the same year (2005) and broadband internet was almost ubiquitous so you could just watch the fight scenes on there without having to wade through Natalie Portman being badly directed through endless minutes of turgid dialogue by George Lucas or Ewan McGregor's annoying accent or lord help us Jar Jar Binks. That's probably the best advice I could give anyone considering watching the prequels, just watch the lightsaber battles on Youtube, you're not missing much else in the actual films.

Other than Diarmuid Gavin, none of the actors come out particularly well but I blame Lucas for that as dialogue and actors are his pitfall. Lucas is a great world builder and name maker upper and as it turns out his fight scenes aren't too bad but everything else? Oof!!

Finally I'll say the reason people hark back to practical effects in films isn't all down to the prequels but they certainly played a part. Watching them you just long for someone to try and force lift a spaceship out of real water or some characters made of rubber and wires, something tangible.

Oh and finally finally the minute long Darth Vader fight scene near the end of Rogue One is better than the entire prequel trilogy put together but it's better than most Star Wars stuff thinking about it. It's fucking bad ass as fuck.

Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2021, 01:37:19 AM »
Worse than "Yipee"?

Worse than NOOOOOOOO!!!!! or Liam Neeson talking about midichlorians or Ewan McGregor talking about younglings or... God there's stiff competition for shit dialogue.

Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #57 on: March 18, 2021, 01:42:50 AM »
Patrick Swayze turned into a ghost and he could move stuff.

Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #58 on: March 18, 2021, 01:47:20 AM »
and they’re led by Leia but she’s a general now not a princess... Yeah, that’s a no again...”

Wait, I thought Leah was a military leader in the original trilogy? General would just be a natural progression. She gives instructions for at least one of the Death Star attacks and is on Hoth giving orders to troops.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

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Re: Star Wars: A New Dope
« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2021, 01:52:35 AM »
Liam Neeson said later on that he said yes to Phantom Menace without reading the script, something he usually never does. He didn't enjoy making it because he hadn't realised there would be so much greenscreen work.

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