Author Topic: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier  (Read 9660 times)

The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« on: March 19, 2021, 01:31:07 PM »
The latest Disney's Marvel's telly series, this time starring Captain America's bosom buddies.

I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise, but I wasn't expecting this so soon. While the espionage genre is ripe for narrative twists, I expect this isn't going to generate the same level of fevered speculation as Wandavision, so I'd have thought they'd want to get the hype train chuffing in advance. Instead, it seems to have arrived with little fanfare.

That said, the opening episode leaves us with at least one intriguing hook in the shape of the new Captain America. Is he going to be a baddie? The original bequeathed the shield to Sam (and the trailer already showed him practicing with it) so it obviously seems wrong for someone else to carry it. Also, no offence to Wyatt Russell, but he's not quite handsome enough to take over the role from Chris "not that one" Evans.

Some folk have voiced concern about the lead actors, but I think they're perfectly apt to lead the show (and you could probably have said much the same of Wanda/Vision, before WandaVision). Mackie in particular has a breezy charisma that ought to play well off Stan's brooding loner act.

The big action scene had impressively high production values, but it did go on a bit and lacked any real emotional engagement. Presumably, future punch-ups will fare better, as the story progresses and the stakes become clear. It was also a tad confusing, as it made Falcon seem like he was super strong. For all the wiz bang action, the biggest gasp the episode drew from me was from the revelation that Bucky's old friend is actually the grieving father of one of his victims.

Discuss the show, or complain about its mere existence.

Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2021, 01:36:51 PM »
I think I've watched all the recent Marvel films but can't remember that much. Can anyone bring me up to speed with where we're at when this starts please?

Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2021, 01:40:25 PM »
I don't really have much interest in either of the characters but will watch it anyway as a Friday night thing now that Wandavision has ended. There's at least a certain level of quality you can generally rely on with the Marvel Studios/Disney brand.

bgmnts

  • Depressed to the point of poisonous toxicity.
Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2021, 01:47:38 PM »
I always call The Falcon 'Wingnut' for some reason. I have no idea who The Falcon is and if i'm mistaking him for another superhero but The Falcon is lame and Wingnut is a shit name.

bakabaka

  • Have we got over our differences yet? (ho/hum)
Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2021, 03:53:55 PM »
Not sure what needs spoling at this stage. So...

Ten minutes of Top Gun then family family family all the way down...

The new Captain America is John(nie) Walker[1] who started as a baddie but became a goodie, so we aren't supposed to know which he is in this. But with that chin and mouth he can only be evil as goodies are all gorgeous in the MCU. However, having a patriot as a bad guy (to contrast with Captain America's good patriotism) as in his original comic story line is unusually apposite for the post-Trump world, not something I was expecting from Marvel/Disney. So presumably they'll go for something simpler and just plain dumber[2].
 1. Jack Daniels was another one, in the comics
 2. Wandavision

Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2021, 04:22:05 PM »
I think I've watched all the recent Marvel films but can't remember that much. Can anyone bring me up to speed with where we're at when this starts please?
Captain America is an old geezer now, so he passed on the shield to Sam Wilson (The Falcon). Bucky (The Winter Soldier) is no longer brainwashed (he's brain dirty). I think everything else is laid out clearly enough within the episode.

Dr Rock

  • The BEST of luck!
Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2021, 06:13:25 PM »
And it takes about four weeks after the snap/blip. If you were wondering (so just after Wandavision finished)


Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2021, 06:26:15 PM »
And it takes about four weeks after the snap/blip. If you were wondering (so just after Wandavision finished)

Apparently WandaVision is about a month post-Endgame, TFATWS is about 6 months and Spidey: Far From Home is about 8 months

Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2021, 08:10:48 PM »
I expect the politics to end up being horribly centrist, and yet still better than the godawful mess of Nick Spencer's recent Captain America comics run or the JM DeMatteis 1982 Captain America issue where Cap defends a Neo-Nazi's right to free speech.

I've been reading the famous runs of Cap on Marvel Unlimited so some comic-based thoughts on where this is going follow:

The Flag Smashers are a based on the character Flag Smasher, and the group U.L.T.I.M.A.T.U.M. (The Underground Liberated Totally Integrated Mobile Army To Unite Mankind) so they are already cowards for not using that gloriously ridiculous acronym.

In the comic, both Ultimatum and Douglas Rockwell, the man responsible for replacing Steve Rogers with John Walker, are part of a conspiracy headed by the Red Skull. So I suspect they will keep the connection between the two here, but make Zemo the one pulling the strings.

Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2021, 11:21:52 PM »
I actually really liked that. James Bond-esque opening, a variety of locations, some brooding drama and room to breathe for the two main characters.

I feel sorry for Wyatt Russell, he's getting a lot of abuse online from adults who should know better, although fair to say he doesn't suit the Cap America mask.

Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2021, 11:55:54 AM »
Still can't quite work out exactly what it is about Bucky that I'm supposed to be interested in. I would think there has to be something, but I'm not seeing it.

Replies From View

  • Rubbing linseed oil into the school cormorant.
  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • Gargoyles have milk bags.
Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2021, 12:04:05 PM »
Is this the one that eats chocolate covered honeycomb spheres?

bakabaka

  • Have we got over our differences yet? (ho/hum)
Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2021, 12:09:11 PM »
Is this the one that eats chocolate covered honeycomb spheres?
No, that's the one that makes fun of shopping centres.

mothman

  • I don't know why
Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2021, 12:15:50 PM »
I wonder if they’ll lean into the name of the show echoing that of The Falcon and The Snowman at all? Maybe a montage set to “This Is Not America”?

Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2021, 12:58:10 PM »
I wonder if they’ll lean into the name of the show echoing that of The Falcon and The Snowman at all? Maybe a montage set to “This Is Not America”?
Sung by Aled Jones.

I feel sorry for Wyatt Russell, he's getting a lot of abuse online from adults who should know better, although fair to say he doesn't suit the Cap America mask.
That is rather harsh. He's not a bad looking chap (and he was a bad mofo in Overlord) just not as ridiculously gorgeous as Evans.

Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2021, 01:02:56 PM »
Sung by Aled Jones.
That is rather harsh. He's not a bad looking chap (and he was a bad mofo in Overlord) just not as ridiculously gorgeous as Evans.

Yeah he just looks like a regular bloke, but I think the Cap America mask is really unforgiving if you don't have the perfect lower face area like Evans. The one from the 1990 film didn't look too great either.

mothman

  • I don't know why
Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2021, 01:49:41 PM »
Thinking about it, TFATWS being meant to precede WandaVision, but not, may work in its favour. Because WV has already done the heavy lifting when it comes to managing expectations. Sure it was in many ways ultimately a disappointment - no Mephisto, no X-Men, no Fantastic 4 etc. - it did what it didn't say it'd do on the tin: get Wanda Maximoff past her "grieving widow with no place in the world" phase.

And, it did so in style, with a bold and challenging conceit - the sitcom motif, which although it started off cute and eventually became a bit of an incumberance, made it a unique and headline-grabbing show. Now that's past, there's less pressure on TFATWS which could just be what it appears to be, a workmanlike buddy-action mini/limited-series with a blockbuster budget. Unless it ends up being more than that, of course.

Reading an interview with Mackie and Stan today in the Guardian, it struck me that they either don't know, or are being coy about, what the future holds for their characters. I'm sure there have been discussions, but one of the MCU's strengths is its ability to evolve and adapt. There have been plenty of abandoned subplots and forgotten foreshadowings along the way which didn't act to the detriment of the franchise or any of its instalments.

We know Scarlet Witch is guaranteed at least one more outing in her current incarnation, but this could be "it" for the other two[1]. That feels less likely for Mackie, I doubt they're going to drop his storyline especially not now he's inadvertently found himself at the forefront of the MCU's diversity after Boseman died. And Sam never really got a proper introduction (Bucky at least had the Captain Americas, one titular in fact[2]) so it's good to see him get a fair crack of the whip now.
 1. With no Avengers 2.0[1] on the production slate at present...
 1. I tend to vew the Avengers we saw at the end of Ultron and the start of Civil War as Avengers 1.1, they never really got their own chance to shine and won't be back in that combination anyway.
 2. Stan may just be there for Bucky to perform the role he played for the first Captain America - as support, confidante, even conscience... And once that's done and Sam is firmly established as Captain America, his work here will be done.

Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2021, 02:12:44 PM »
Sure it was in many ways ultimately a disappointment - no Mephisto, no X-Men, no Fantastic 4 etc...

I do think it's a bit unfair to call WV a disappointment just based on it not matching up to fan theories. I admit to being on the Mephisto bandwagon for a while, because it seemed like the thing Marvel would do, but ultimately I think it was stronger for concentrating on Wanda and not doing any huge reveals.

mothman

  • I don't know why
Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2021, 02:41:02 PM »
Yeah, sorry, could have phrased it better! "Left some disappointed" perhaps?

Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2021, 03:03:57 PM »
Yeah, sorry, could have phrased it better! "Left some disappointed" perhaps?

Sure, that's fair.

AsparagusTrevor

  • Member
  • **
  • I'm fine, thank you.
Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2021, 04:38:29 PM »
I think I've watched all the recent Marvel films but can't remember that much. Can anyone bring me up to speed with where we're at when this starts please?
There's some shorts on Disney+ called Marvel Legends which bring you up to speed.

Kelvin

  • The best bits of a pantomime horse
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • With skin the colour of a freshly peeled apple
Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2021, 04:49:31 PM »
I always call The Falcon 'Wingnut' for some reason. I have no idea who The Falcon is and if i'm mistaking him for another superhero but The Falcon is lame and Wingnut is a shit name.

Wingnut was a villain in Turtles?


Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2021, 05:00:21 PM »
I actually really liked that. James Bond-esque opening, a variety of locations, some brooding drama and room to breathe for the two main characters.

Indeed, after Wandavision I was a little afraid this would come across as a rather too generic spy thriller tha trailers seemed to paint it as but thus far I found it quite effective dramatically.

My guess would be that the Disney+ series are going to operate at the kind of level were there not 100% essential to follow the larger story but flesh out the drama a bit on characters who otherwise didnt get central focus.

Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2021, 01:41:48 AM »
Wingnut was a villain in Turtles?


Some kind of bat man? That's not serious enough for modern comics adaptations.

Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2021, 09:02:03 AM »
Can someone edit the final scene to have it be "your new hero, Bananaman!" coming down the steps and posing to the camera?

Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2021, 11:46:15 AM »
Yeah he just looks like a regular bloke, but I think the Cap America mask is really unforgiving if you don't have the perfect lower face area like Evans. The one from the 1990 film didn't look too great either.

My wife thought it was DJ Qualls as the new Cpt America


Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2021, 05:33:20 PM »
Still can't quite work out exactly what it is about Bucky that I'm supposed to be interested in. I would think there has to be something, but I'm not seeing it.
I've repeatedly had this feeling through all the Marvel movies that have featured tidbits of Bucky in the post-creds. I get that Cap missed his buddy, but I'm less clear why I'm supposed to care if he's good or evil or lives or dies. In contrast to Chris Evans Captain America, who was always very strongly characterised, Bucky just seems generic stuff. They could at least try for a gay subtext.

Still, as first episodes go, it was promising at least on the Falcon side. I don't want too much small-business-related drama, but so far it's nice to get some characterisation. And hopefully Sebastian Stan will get more to do than brood and let his hair hang lankly.

Glebe

  • Thanks for the av Plankton!
Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2021, 11:20:01 PM »
Not started watching this as yet, but just watched Endgame again... FatWS was original gonna kick off Marvel TV until the pandemic messed up the Marvel schedule, the movie pretty much comes to a close with Cap, Sam and Bucky.

mothman

  • I don't know why
Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2021, 10:48:18 PM »
Another fun little episode. This is never going to set the world on fire, but it's not actively terrible. Mackie and Stan aren't wonderfully charismatic - that is, Stan certainly isn't - but they work well together. It's more Tango & Cash than Riggs & Murtaugh!

Re: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2021, 11:31:31 PM »
They could at least try for a gay subtext.
They did actually try a bit of that in the second episode, with the two of them in a kind of "couples therapy".

I agree with Mothman that it's a funny enough show. Bit of scrapping, bit of banter, nothing essential but entertaining so I'm looking forward to the next episode. Of course, they covered the whole "trying to create a new Captain America" in the Jessica Jones show with Will Simpson/Nuke, but I guess that doesn't count anymore.

Tags: