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The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

Started by Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth, March 19, 2021, 01:31:07 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Dr Rock

At the start of Endgame we see Hawkeye and his family just before the snap. There are trees everywhere, foreground and background. Post snap none are gone.

touchingcloth


Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I assume Bucky had the
Spoiler alert
Wakandans reverse engineer the super soldier serum from his blood as part of the gift basket he gave to Sam. Sam would surely get pulverised otherwise, no matter how big a training montage he does.
[close]

What was the US army's plan for Walker? Sending him out to fight super people, with no powers of his own. No wonder he went nuts.

VelourSpirit

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on April 17, 2021, 11:04:02 AM
I assume Bucky had the
Spoiler alert
Wakandans reverse engineer the super soldier serum from his blood as part of the gift basket he gave to Sam. Sam would surely get pulverised otherwise, no matter how big a training montage he does.
[close]
I would have thought he'd need the shield but apparently you can just throw the shield extremely hard without super strength so I don't think he'll need it. He's been fine enough without it so far and he said without hesitation that he wouldn't take it.

bakabaka

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on April 17, 2021, 11:04:02 AM
I assume Bucky had the
Spoiler alert
Wakandans reverse engineer the super soldier serum from his blood as part of the gift basket he gave to Sam. Sam would surely get pulverised otherwise, no matter how big a training montage he does.
[close]

What was the US army's plan for Walker? Sending him out to fight super people, with no powers of his own. No wonder he went nuts.
I was guessing that Sam 's present was a
Spoiler alert
Black Panther-type suit with energy absorbing powers
[close]
to offset the superbaddies' power.

Though the idea of a Captain America without superserumstrength just feels wrong. Anyone know if any of the comic versions were just norms?

The way they covered the whole racist America topic was quite canny. Lots of heavy implications and reliance on shared understanding without actually saying "America - built on foundations of racism, thriving on the maintenance of racism"

mothman

For a product of somewhere like Disney (who'd feature heavily in any history of non- and/or anti-diversity actions and/or practices in Hollywood) to come out with a line like "They will never let a black man be Captain America. And, even if they did, no self-respecting black man would ever want to be" is a hell of a thing. Hopefully a positive one.

Even if it'll probably be utterly subverted next episode when a self-respecting black man decides he does indeed want the gig, and gets it.

mjwilson

Even showing casually racist cops seemed like quite a big move from Marvel.
I feel like they already laid the groundwork this episode to say that Isiaih's opinion was just that and that Sam doesn't have to agree with him just because he's black.

I assume the box cobrains a new set of wings.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: bakabaka on April 17, 2021, 11:33:09 AMThough the idea of a Captain America without superserumstrength just feels wrong. Anyone know if any of the comic versions were just norms?
I have a suspicion that comic Sam Wilson was Cap for a time, but not sure if he was still normal or serum'd up.

Recent episode did reinforce my earlier mentioned suspicion that
Spoiler alert
Sharon Carter is the Power Broker.
[close]

But I do hope
Spoiler alert
that's not the last we see of Zemo. Escaping fron Wakanda might be some effort, though.
[close]

touchingcloth

Quote from: TwinPeaks on April 17, 2021, 11:29:50 AM
I would have thought he'd need the shield but apparently you can just throw the shield extremely hard without super strength so I don't think he'll need it. He's been fine enough without it so far and he said without hesitation that he wouldn't take it.

Yeah, how does that work? Given that we've seen the shield knock people off their feet when thrown at them before, it should be taking his arm off each time he neatly catches it by the handles.

mothman

It's been oft-commented thst the shield doesn't appear to obey the laws of physics, so there's that. Which is quite a rum thing to do for an object that is apparently nothing more than a shield made of a very hard, very rare metal.

phantom_power

Nice to see JLD turn up. I didn't know she was going to be in it. She is so great. I hope her character has more of a role in the latter episodes

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: phantom_power on April 19, 2021, 09:49:48 AM
Nice to see JLD turn up. I didn't know she was going to be in it. She is so great. I hope her character has more of a role in the latter episodes
There's only one episode left, I think.

They did sort of talk about Steve Rogers as if he was dead, but I did wonder if instead he just went back to the timeline he spent living with Peggy? Maybe he has grandkids there and such.

Bad Ambassador

I think the idea is that the world thinks Steve is dead.

JLD was supposed to have been
Spoiler alert
introduced in Black Widow, with TFatWS following after, so it's been suggested she's going to be some kind of evil Nick Fury, recruiting some Bad Avengers. Committers?
[close]

touchingcloth

They really fucked it by adding time travel into the mix. Has there ever been a satisfying story told in any medium which involved time travel?

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth


Dr Rock



mjwilson

Quote from: touchingcloth on April 19, 2021, 11:12:59 AM
They really fucked it by adding time travel into the mix. Has there ever been a satisfying story told in any medium which involved time travel?

Lost

Glebe

I've caught up with this now, last couple of episodes were really good.

phantom_power

Quote from: touchingcloth on April 19, 2021, 11:12:59 AM
They really fucked it by adding time travel into the mix. Has there ever been a satisfying story told in any medium which involved time travel?

Not really. The key is to not think too hard about it and take what happens at face value

Butchers Blind

Quote from: touchingcloth on April 19, 2021, 11:12:59 AM
They really fucked it by adding time travel into the mix. Has there ever been a satisfying story told in any medium which involved time travel?

Back to the Future.

frajer

Staying in the Marvelverse I thought Endgame did the time travel stuff about as well as could be expected. Not high praises I know, but it was fun and worked in context and I think that's the best that can be hoped for. (Although that said, looks like from the Loki trailer
Spoiler alert
that he's severely fucked the timeline with his disappearing act
[close]
).

MojoJojo

Quote from: touchingcloth on April 19, 2021, 11:12:59 AM
They really fucked it by adding time travel into the mix. Has there ever been a satisfying story told in any medium which involved time travel?

I think the first Terminator did it well, although I know a lot of people don't like the stable time loop idea.

dissolute ocelot

Quote from: MojoJojo on April 19, 2021, 03:18:34 PM
I think the first Terminator did it well, although I know a lot of people don't like the stable time loop idea.
Yeah there's a bunch of satisfying time travel stories: La Jetée (but not so much 12 Monkeys), Terminator 1, BTTF, Timecop, Trancers, some Futurama stories, even T2 though not perfect works fairly well. The problems really come when you try to get too technical rather than relying on emotion and narrative flow.

Quote from: mjwilson on April 17, 2021, 07:12:11 PM
I assume the box contains a new set of wings.
I assumed this too. Although I wasn't entirely sure what happened to the old one. They got fucked in the fight somehow but I couldn't see it more exactly. Did he just break them like a silly person?

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: dissolute ocelot on April 21, 2021, 02:59:18 PMI assumed this too. Although I wasn't entirely sure what happened to the old one. They got fucked in the fight somehow but I couldn't see it more exactly. Did he just break them like a silly person?
Serum'd up Walker snapped them off, didn't he? Sam then left what was left of them with his soldier friend, Torres, which made me wonder whether he'll do a repair job and take up the Falcon mantle.

touchingcloth

Quote from: dissolute ocelot on April 21, 2021, 02:59:18 PM
Yeah there's a bunch of satisfying time travel stories: La Jetée (but not so much 12 Monkeys), Terminator 1, BTTF, Timecop, Trancers, some Futurama stories, even T2 though not perfect works fairly well. The problems really come when you try to get too technical rather than relying on emotion and narrative flow.

There are definitely good films which include time travel, I just always feel that the time travel aspects themselves leave things to be desired, even when suspending your disbelief.

Of course films like the Terminator and Back to The Future series wouldn't exist at all without time travel, but after the strength of writing in Infinity War it left Endgame feeling messy and lazy. They missed a trick to write a compelling plot about dealing with the Blip, is my opinion, and wrote themselves into a bit of a hole where a viewer's response to any particular jeopardy can be just to dismiss it as being something which could be corrected with some more of the old quantum leaps.

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on April 21, 2021, 03:07:47 PM
Serum'd up Walker snapped them off, didn't he?

Yeah, then he and Bucky broke Walker's arm in response.

touchingcloth

Who does Sam work for? In the latest episode that dark haired kid made some comment about how his jurisdiction was being taken back, and I've just rewatched episode 2 where Sam says to Wilson "you have rules of engagement to follow, but me and Bucky are free agents". Is he army, a spy, Shield?

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: touchingcloth on April 21, 2021, 10:07:36 PM
Who does Sam work for? In the latest episode that dark haired kid made some comment about how his jurisdiction was being taken back, and I've just rewatched episode 2 where Sam says to Wilson "you have rules of engagement to follow, but me and Bucky are free agents". Is he army, a spy, Shield?
He could be freelance, hence being able to head back home and spend time fixing the family boat and then training to use the shield right. Not sure they made it clear who Torres works for, though as he was dressed in (what looked like) military fatigues, he could be in some kind of UN-type group?

Walker was US army, but obviously got discharged following his anger management issues.

Mister Six

I think this might be the first Marvel-related TV show that's going to leave me wishing they'd had more episodes, not fewer. Really impressed with how they've broached so many interesting issues and juggled so many balls, and while I would have appreciated a bit more time to make the Flag Smashers sympathetic and show me what they're actually fighting for, on the whole it's really working for me. We'll see how well it wraps up on Friday, though...

Also, can't remember if I've already said this, but the last shot will be the title card except this time it says CAPTAIN AMERICA AND BUCKY.

Guaranteed.

Quote from: mothman on April 17, 2021, 10:10:25 PM
It's been oft-commented thst the shield doesn't appear to obey the laws of physics, so there's that. Which is quite a rum thing to do for an object that is apparently nothing more than a shield made of a very hard, very rare metal.

That metal is Vibranium, which powers Wakandan technology, makes Black Panther's suit absorb kinetic energy, and somehow led to the development of those magic powers that let T'Challa commune with his dead relatives. It's basically magic.

But yeah, Sam being able to catch something that chopped right into a tree trunk just a montage ago is bullshit.

touchingcloth

Quote from: Mister Six on April 22, 2021, 03:39:13 AM
I think this might be the first Marvel-related TV show that's going to leave me wishing they'd had more episodes, not fewer. Really impressed with how they've broached so many interesting issues and juggled so many balls, and while I would have appreciated a bit more time to make the Flag Smashers sympathetic and show me what they're actually fighting for, on the whole it's really working for me. We'll see how well it wraps up on Friday, though...

Also, can't remember if I've already said this, but the last shot will be the title card except this time it says CAPTAIN AMERICA AND BUCKY.

Guaranteed.

There's a bit in episode 2 where Sam tells Bucky that he's returned from Wakanda "all White Panther", and Bucky replies that it's "White Wolf, actually", so it could be that as well.

Are there multiple of these shields floating round thanks to Endgame? The one which Cap as an old man gave to Sam, did he travel back in time to return the stones, and then take Original Cap's shield at some point before Thanos smashed it to pieces, or did he collect the knackered shield and repair it? And do the events of Infinity War and Endgame and the rest of the MCU replay themselves for the Cap who went back in time, or is it some parallel timeline which somehow also ends at Tony's funeral?

Bullshit.