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March 29, 2024, 09:42:58 AM

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The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

Started by Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth, March 19, 2021, 01:31:07 PM

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phantom_power

I think it will be a vibranium Captain America suit in the box, as Bucky asked for a favour from the Wakandan woman and Sam would need some sort of extra power given he is a normal human up against super soldiers

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I'm still going with reverse engineered serum. Giving him a Black Panther style suit would undercut the symbolism of him becoming Captain America, I think. Like he wouldn't truly be Captain America, he'd be Captain Panther.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on April 22, 2021, 01:27:00 PM
I'm still going with reverse engineered serum. Giving him a Black Panther style suit would undercut the symbolism of him becoming Captain America, I think. Like he wouldn't truly be Captain America, he'd be Captain Panther.
I dunno, didn't he say he wouldn't take the serum if offered?

madhair60


phantom_power

It's a big suitcase or some serum, and yes he said he wouldn't take it anyway. I am not sure having Cap's suit be vibranium would undercut anything, just acknowledge that he would get killed to fuck if he went up against a super soldier. Iron Man having a techno suit didn't undercut his heroism

Mister Six

Quote from: touchingcloth on April 22, 2021, 08:15:55 AM
There's a bit in episode 2 where Sam tells Bucky that he's returned from Wakanda "all White Panther", and Bucky replies that it's "White Wolf, actually", so it could be that as well.

True, and you're probably right, but Bucky would have a bit more emotional resonance, as it would signify him casting off decades of guilt. Also, "Captain America and Bucky" has a kind of authentic, heroic ring to it - a kind of confirmation that the mantle has been taken up properly this time, that balance has been restored.

But White Wolf sounds better, so aye you're probably right.

bakabaka

Captain America and White Wolf
Captain Black and White Wolf
Captain Black and Bucky
Black America and White Wolf


This isn't as easy as they make it look.

VelourSpirit

It'll be a captain america suit and his army friend will make him some new wings

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: TwinPeaks on April 22, 2021, 06:57:40 PM
It'll be a captain america suit and his army friend will make him some new wings
Could be, but I'd like to see the friend using the wings himself - Sam as Cap America, Torres as Falcon. Should send the right-wing oddballs into a frenzy.

Lord Mandrake

Sorry I broke the bloke who killed your King out of jail to very little practice purpose, can you make my mate a vibranium suit, flying wings and a drone? Do it like Evil Knevil's bike. Cheers.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: Lord Mandrake on April 22, 2021, 08:08:38 PM
Sorry I broke the bloke who killed your King out of jail to very little practice purpose, can you make my mate a vibranium suit, flying wings and a drone? Do it like Evil Knevil's bike. Cheers.
Maybe all the Wakanda lasses fancied him? He's quite a handsome sort.

touchingcloth

Quote from: TwinPeaks on April 22, 2021, 06:57:40 PM
It'll be a captain america suit and his army friend will make him some new wings

Army mate Torres becomes Falcon, I reckon.

touchingcloth

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on April 22, 2021, 01:31:55 PM
I dunno, didn't he say he wouldn't take the serum if offered?

He said it to Zemo, and so quickly that he said something like "no hesitation - impressive".

Speaking of Zemo, why did he put that purple balaclava on for about three seconds in that episode in the neo shanty town?

mothman

Never mind all that - RELEASE THE ZEMO CUT!

Alberon

Quote from: touchingcloth on April 22, 2021, 08:51:14 PM
He said it to Zemo, and so quickly that he said something like "no hesitation - impressive".

Speaking of Zemo, why did he put that purple balaclava on for about three seconds in that episode in the neo shanty town?

Probably some comics related shit, I dunno. I never read the standard Marvel ones (except for Peter David's run on The Hulk, oh and the current Immortal Hulk where it's a sort of Highlander/light horror mashup).

The Culture Bunker

I read up on Zemo when he was first introduced in Civil War, so the mask thing made some kind of sense when they used it in this series. But then they didn't actually do anything with it, so to a lot of the audience it was probably just some random nonsense - can only think they did it for fanboy/girl points.

touchingcloth

Quote from: Alberon on April 22, 2021, 10:02:32 PM
Probably some comics related shit, I dunno. I never read the standard Marvel ones (except for Peter David's run on The Hulk, oh and the current Immortal Hulk where it's a sort of Highlander/light horror mashup).

Yeah, I got a whiff of fan service from it. They're usually pretty good at hiding when they've slid something in - Agnes being (I assume) obvious from episode one to fans as being Agatha Harkness while saving the reveal for the lay viewer, for example.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: phantom_power on April 22, 2021, 04:02:34 PM
It's a big suitcase or some serum, and yes he said he wouldn't take it anyway. I am not sure having Cap's suit be vibranium would undercut anything, just acknowledge that he would get killed to fuck if he went up against a super soldier. Iron Man having a techno suit didn't undercut his heroism
Not that it would undercut his heroism, but I feel like it would be a bit half arsed if he doesn't at least have the opportunity to glug some super juice and withstand its personality warping effects. The manbabies would always be able to say that he's not really Captain America.

Then again, maybe it's more meaningful if he doesn't have to prove himself to those types.

touchingcloth

The heart-shaped herb has that anti stuff which Black Panther needs to take before the challenge things, so maybe they square it by having Sam use that stuff and resetting himself when he's not in great big battles.

Lord Mandrake

Spoiler alert
Falcon could have made that speech at the beginning and saved everyone a lot of bother.
[close]

Obel

Quote from: Lord Mandrake on April 23, 2021, 10:45:15 AM
Spoiler alert
Falcon could have made that speech at the beginning and saved everyone a lot of bother.
[close]

Yeah that whole scene just made me think of Neil Breen, which is a bit of an unfortunate comparison.

Last episode was the weakest of the bunch IMO, I felt the same about Wandavision too and I feel like this might end up being a bit of a recurring theme with the Marvel shows as they need to have the last episode be a bit of an action fest. His new suit was a bit crap too.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I thought it stuck the landing pretty well. It was an action show from the start, so ending things with a big punch up wasn't the disappointment that it was in WandaVision.

That said, I'm not without my gripes:

       
  • Walker's story just sort of petered out. One minute he's an unstable revenge beast, the next he's all smiles and sunshine. I assume there must have been a missing scene in which Bucky used what he'd learned in his therapy sessions to talk him down. I don't know anything about Julia Louis Dreyfus' character, but should there not have been a bit more of a sinister undertone to their last scene? Also, having lost his military rank, should he not have been arrested as a vigilante? They could have combined the two things - have him sitting in a cell, with a bunch of mean looking guards, then JLD saunters in, shows her ID and they all suddenly look scared and let him go.
  • Carter had the opposite problem. She's not been established particularly strongly across the films,
    Spoiler alert
    so the revelation that she is the big bad Power Broker landed with a muffled thud
    [close]
    .

Sam's big speech was a bit much, but it was gratifying that the show didn't just sweep the Flag Smashers' legitimate grievances under the rug (even though that's almost certainly the last we'll see about it all). Of course, in real life, the powers that be would be doing all they could to discredit him

Quote from: Mister Six on April 22, 2021, 03:39:13 AM
Also, can't remember if I've already said this, but the last shot will be the title card except this time it says CAPTAIN AMERICA AND BUCKY.
Almost. To be fair, you (I think) were smack on when you said that nothing that happened in this would be essential to the following films (with the possible exception of Walker making future appearances). Sam started the series with the shield and he ended with it, everything that happened in between was basically a detour, albeit an enjoyable scenic road sort of detour.

touchingcloth

I'm an idiot. I read one of the spoilered bits of text this morning, and got confused wondering what the hell it was talking about. Just nearly read Claude's post and realised that of course the latest episode was out this morning, and thanked my lucky idiot stars that I can't remember what the thing I read this morning actually said.

mjwilson

There is a mid-credits scene, just in case you missed it.

bakabaka

Quote from: mjwilson on April 23, 2021, 05:48:22 PM
There is a mid-credits scene, just in case you missed it.
Cheers, I had.

So which superhero is she going to be up against for that ongoing story? I was kind of hoping that we'd get a variant on the Daredevil in Japan comics with her as the baddie but if she's not over there it seems unlikely.

beanheadmcginty

All of the various Captain America costumes in this programme suffered from a severe awkward ears problem.

greenman

In terms of final episodes feeling a little anticlimactic I would say part of the issue is that these series are ultimately more about setup than payoff. There main drama around characters like Wanda, Sam and Buckey is really recycling what we've seen in the films with a bit more depth to it but in terms of the larger setting there more about introducing new elements like Walker, Carter and a more "reusable" Zemo.

touchingcloth

The devious smile in the first half of the mid-credits scene was kind of cool, but they pissed it away in the second half with the phone call where she may as well have just said
Spoiler alert
"I've got access to all the military stuff, we can be even more nefarious now, wink".
[close]

Alberon

These sort of series are always going to be subservient to the films. In general they're always going to be made so you can watch just the films without missing anything. Loki might be more unconventional, but I'd like to see at least one series with characters not from the films. Where there is a bit more freedom

The fight sequencies were expensive, but largely just okay, but it was far too predictable.

mothman

So the Power Broker
Spoiler alert
is Sharon Carter. Even though it was incredibly obvious and widely predicted, it also falls flat as plot twist and character development. The character was just a useful contact in two Captain America movies, and really didn't make much of an impression in either. She was a useful plot device. As she was again in TFATWS - sorry, CAATWS[nb]
Spoiler alert
And that's another thing. Why isn't it Captain America and the White Wolf at the end? Or will that be season 2?
[close]
[/nb]. And then they go and throw in this other thing, making her a supervillain. Which raises several questions, like HOW and WHY? How does a disgraced disavowed agent on the run magically become Keyser Soze? And why does she? OK she might be feeling a bit disgruntled, a bit unloved, but that doesn't necessarily turn her into a monster. It's nonsensical.
[close]

Also, Zemo. Yes, my favourite subject. How does he
Spoiler alert
mastermind the car bombing at the end? From a prison cell? Unless it was JLD pinning the blame on him, but seeing him in his cell hearing about it and looking pleased suggests he's definitely involved. Still raises the question how. Was it the soldier/policeman who said "One world, one people" to them before locking the door? Or was he the fourth supersoldier reported killed - the news said four had died in the bombing...
[close]