The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[Bently Sheds]

Spoiler alert

New Captain America looks like he's wearing his white undies around his head.

[close]

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I liked how much use they got out of Falcon's wings in the fight scenes, even if it did remind me of Batfink.

Loki might be more unconventional, but I'd like to see at least one series with characters not from the films.

Having the film characters is these series big selling point though (even if they are the B-list ones).

[mothman]

Spoiler alert

Just realised it was Zemo's butler who blew up the prison van.

[close]

[touchingcloth]

Which raises several questions, like HOW and WHY?

Spoiler alert

How does a disgraced disavowed agent on the run magically become Keyser Soze? And why does she? OK she might be feeling a bit disgruntled, a bit unloved, but that doesn't necessarily turn her into a monster.

[close]

It's nonsensical.

It also raises the question of why

Spoiler alert

didn't Steve help her? Was her not aware that she went on the run in disgrace after Civil War? They've had a (friendly) kiss and he's had a (not so much friendly) thing with her aunt, so...was he just not arsed about her in Infinity War and after

[close]

? There's a lot they haven't thought through properly with that character.

[Dr Rock]

but I'd like to see at least one series with characters not from the films. Where there is a bit more freedom

Ms Marvel, She-Hulk and Moon Knight TV shows are in development.

[bakabaka]

Ms Marvel, She-Hulk and Moon Knight TV shows are in development.

Having only read the first half dozen or so issues (to better understand the Moon Roach parody in Cerebus), did Moon Knight stop being a blatant Batman ripoff at some point? While I loved the artwork (Mike Ploog?), the character really had nothing going for it at all.

[Dr Rock]

The main difference is the multiple personality disorder. He's way more nuts that Batman. Also he's tied into Egyptian Gods, unless that's a delusion also.

[touchingcloth]

Do you think they're going somewhere with Sam's borderline problematic compulsion to fix people according to his wishes rather than their own?

His sister wanted to get rid of the boat and the childhood home, Sam returned from a long stint of Avenging and Sam's like "nope, come on, let's go talk mortgages".

Sharon wanted to stay off-grid, Sam's like "nope, come on, let me get you a pardon. I can do that."

Isaiah like Sharon wanted to stay off-grid, and to not have journalists coming round to pry on his former life as a super soldier, Sam's like "nope, come on, I've made you

Spoiler alert

an exhibition in the Smithsonian

[close]

without your permission." On that point, where did they get Isaiah's

Spoiler alert

likeness for that statue

[close]

from? Is it just generic black soldier? Not cool if so, guys, that's exactly the kind of thing he's against.

Walker like Sharon crossed a legal line when he went all Achilles, and again Sam's like "nope, come on, let's give old Sam the shield and he'll get you a pardon."

Bucky and Karli were more honourable cases, I guess, but Sam's still like "nope, come on, just give me five mins and I'm going to cure PTSD and I'm going to solve the issue of the international redistribution of wealth and land."

Where do you think your need to fix everyone comes from, Sam? Falcon heal thyself.

[I.D. Smith]

I'm guessing I've probably missed something with regards to the Power Broker, but

Spoiler alert

the post-pardon phone call scene involving Sharon "Power Broker" Carter makes doesn't make sense to me, in terms of the way it was put to the audience. So, from what I took, she's portrayed to us as a teary-eyed former agent on the run finally being pardoned, until she gets out the building and makes that phone call effectively saying "Gwhaha, I'm now back in with the government and have access to all their data and weapons that we can use for baddie things", therefore giving a final twist of "Oh my, she's actually turned heel and is a baddie!!!".

But I'm 99% sure earlier in the same episode Karli calls her the Power Broker in the face off, and with our knowledge up to that point the Power Broker is the big baddie running Big Baddie Fun Island. So if we already know that Sharon is the Power Broker, aka a baddie, then why is that post-pardon scene done like it's an unexpected heel turn twist?

[close]

Again, I'll admit, I might just be reading the whole thing wrong, but it felt back to front for me.

[touchingcloth]

Nah, that phone call scene was utter garbage - I called it out in an earlier post upthread. On the call she sounded like that

Spoiler alert

Famous Five Comic Strip Presents...where the baddies just say "rhubarb rhubarb, stolen cash, rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb, nuclear bomb"

[close]

. Total dogshit, and the knowing smile she gave in the previous scene showed us far more than they then ineptly tried to tell us.

Exposition has been a persistent weakness in this series, way too much telling rather than telling.

Walker: "The GRC are going to..."

Sam: "I know full well that the General Repatriation Council are planning to hold a vote, thanks".

[touchingcloth]

Bucky finally

Spoiler alert

going back to see the old Buddhist

[close]

was another shit bit, and slightly creepy. "

Spoiler alert

Your son was killed by The Winter Soldier. Which was me.

...

...


Bye for now!


...


...



Oh, and I assume it's cool with you if from now on I keep turning up at that bar you like and just silently and smugly watching you through the window? Because that's what I'm going to be doing a lot of, hope it doesn't make you think about your dead son any more. Who I killed, remember! Ok, tata, bye for now.

[close]

[mothman]

Also wasn't the

Spoiler alert

US Agent

[close]

reveal done in a really knowing way? Shades of "I am no longer Franz Oberhauser, I am now Ernst Stavro Blofeld!" Something which only has meaning to the audience. It's a silly title. And rubbish dialogue.

Spoiler alert

"What we need is a... US Agent!"
"Absolutely! An agent who will be able to do the things for the United States that Captain America can't! What shall we call this new identity of mine?"
"What? No... that IS your new name: US Agent!"
SILENCE

MORE SILENCE

FINALLY

"... I have concerns."

AT A DISASTER SCENE

"Fear not, good people, for I, the US Agent, am here to save you!"
"... US Grant?"
"No! Not Ulysses S. Grant, US AGENT."
"... Your name is Ulysses S. Agent?"

[close]

[Glebe]

I thought that Sharon

Spoiler alert

melting the guy's face

[close]

was a bit much, it was actually a relief to discover that

Spoiler alert

she'd officially 'turned bad' so it was like, "Oh, okay, they're not saying it's okay to melt someone's face."

[close]

Meanwhile,

Spoiler alert

John Walker got off the hook a bit, didn't he?!

[close]

[DocDaneeka]

Whole thing was a load of old shit, kind of reminded me of the Netflix marvels with how dragged out it began to feel which is pretty impressive considering it was only 6 eps long. As a white English man I'm not the guy to know but the ending speech and super soldier exhibition bit seemed pretty insulting and gross.

Still, I like super powers, sci-fi elements and all that stuff so I'll keep on drinking that garbage.

[The Culture Bunker]

My main criticisms of the ending were that:

Spoiler alert

- Sharon Carter turned out to be Power Broker, only because it seemed so obvious that even a dickhead like me spotted it a couple of episodes ago. I was hoping to have my expectations subverted on that one. Set up for second series, I suppose, but she won't be appearing in any more films.

- The Wakandans didn't decide to imprison Zemo themselves, and instead gave him back to the same bunch of idiots who let him go last time. Oh, he's on the Raft - not like anybody ever escaped from there!

[close]

But in the main, I enjoyed it.

Spoiler alert

They've made Sam Cap America, which will make sense if he appears in future films to anybody who didn't watch the show, and can assume he just did so right off the bat when Old Steve Rogers gave him the shield.

[close]

[Lord Mandrake]

I liked bad captain, Zemo and Isaiah. Three compelling characters played by interesting actors, The same just can't be said of falcon American and winter American. This lauded chemistry between Mackie and Stan, I'm just not feeling it.

Wandavision, despite its faults at least attempted something original. This was infantile by comparison. Tracey Beaker and her squad of male models in combat trousers, bad Government man - he didn't even get a title but seemed to represent every level of every branch of government. That silly frenchman leaping about for no discernable reason over than remember him.

Spoiler alert

The Shazza reveal is just daft and makes most of her actions completelybizarre.

[close]

[touchingcloth]

If Sam's super hero name doesn't become Uncle Sam they'll have missed a trick. We've even seen his actual nephews.

[Dr Rock]

Spoiler alert

The Shazza reveal is just daft and makes most of her actions completelybizarre.

[close]

Might be a skrull

[dissolute ocelot]

While I enjoyed it, it did feel like an awkward mix of "let's set things up for the next 20 films" and trying to make something that commented on race and politics and terrorism. Mainly because it was so rushed - lots of things that could be explored, from having 2 rival Captain Americas or a rogue Cap, to Sam facing more serious racism, Bucky's rehabilitation, a deeper exploration of the terrorists, refugees...

It's hard to see exactly where it will go forward from this. The previous Captain America films were all about saving Bucky from everyone who understandably wanted him dead, so that even though Chris Evans as Cap was brave and strong there was still dramatic tension and moral complexity. Is (are we really spoilering this still?)

Spoiler alert

Sam

[close]

too well-balanced to lead a series of films? There are too many characters already, like Hawkeye, who're just bland heroes with no real complexity. It would be kind of a pyrrhic victory to make a

Spoiler alert

black Captain America

[close]

and then not have him star in a series of films.

Also unimpressed by Sharon Carter, who seems someone that only real fans of the comics will care about. Not exactly the most dramatic face-heel turn. The Power Broker sounds more like a Jeffrey Archer novel than a supervillain.

[The Culture Bunker]

It would be kind of a pyrrhic victory to make a

Spoiler alert

black Captain America

[close]

and then not have him star in a series of films.

I'd be very surprised if he isn't in a few future Marvel films but whether he gets his own lead parts is another matter. Presumably about whether they can come up with a decent story and/or make a pile of cash from it.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Definitely didn't find it as satisfying or intriguing as Wandavision, and I found the character interaction with Falcon and his family more interesting than a lot of the action stuff and that ridiculous costume he wears in the last episode. OK though, pleasant Friday night entertainment.

[Dr Rock]

I'd be very surprised if he isn't in a few future Marvel films but whether he gets his own lead parts is another matter.

Captain America 4 with Sam as Cap has just been announced.

[touchingcloth]

Definitely didn't find it as satisfying or intriguing as Wandavision, and I found the character interaction with Falcon and his family more interesting than a lot of the action stuff and that ridiculous costume he wears in the last episode. OK though, pleasant Friday night entertainment.

The character stuff was definitely more interesting than the action, but it sadly wasn't particularly well done. They tried to cram too many grand topics in, but didn't manage to handle any of them particularly well. PTSD, society following the return of everyone who blipped, terrorism, race relations in the US - they're all good topics, but they rushed them all and they came across as trite.

This thing should have been a film rather than a series, the story didn't need the longer form in the way that Wandavision did, and they didn't add anything in to make the most of the longer running time. I wonder if there will ever be another MCU feature film as good as CATWS...

[Glebe]

Maybe

Spoiler alert

Batroc survived, holding the secret about Carter!

[close]

[bakabaka]

Maybe

Spoiler alert

Batroc survived, holding the secret about Carter!

[close]

Or he gets injected with a new attempt at the serum but it makes him half bat, half legendary giant bird thing. And every single one of the Marvel superheroes turn on him in order to stop yet another mythological pantheon joining the MCU.

[Lord Mandrake]

Might be a skrull

Spoiler alert

Could be but then why the need for the mission impossible mask? You're a shape-shifter.

Did she lead them to evil scientist man just to live her cover? She had to fight off about a half dozen of, presumably her own goons whilst Zemo capped him. This was just after she sniped that Selby woman and put a hit out on the lads, what the heck? The Power broker, doing all the dirty work themselves. It's pure arse.

[close]

[bakabaka]

Or he gets injected with a new attempt at the serum but it makes him half bat, half legendary giant bird thing. And every single one of the Marvel superheroes turn on him in order to stop yet another mythological pantheon joining the MCU.

Sorry. I'd forgotten Moon Knight's origin. Too late.

[Artie Fufkin]

oh and the current Immortal Hulk where it's a sort of Highlander/light horror mashup).

I'm loving that! So much fun!

[Artie Fufkin]

Spoiler alert

Could be but then why the need for the mission impossible mask? You're a shape-shifter.

[close]

The classic double bluff!

[bakabaka]

"Who are you?"
"Captain America."
"I thought he was on the moon."

Can anyone explain that one? I thought it was only Superian/Homelander on the moon.
Oh, and The Inhumans.
And the Watcher.