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March 29, 2024, 11:00:19 AM

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The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

Started by Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth, March 19, 2021, 01:31:07 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

touchingcloth

Quote from: mothman on April 10, 2021, 10:00:55 AM
Spoiler alert
(as in injected or injected - I wonder which?)
[close]

Should one of those have said
Spoiler alert
swallowed
[close]
?

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I know Sam was hitting that one bloke with his jet engine, but it sure looked like he was farting on him.

bakabaka

Quote from: touchingcloth on April 10, 2021, 10:07:43 AM
Did they? Just because it was individually-wrapped, or did I miss something else?
They were multicoloured, individually wrapped and clattered when they fell to the ground. Just like boiled sweets.
Rather than being soft and pink and you can finish this sentence yourself.

Spoiler alert
As for NuCap having taken the last of the serum, I don't think he did. For one, I'm sure they would have shown it. In the fight he was only just holding his own and in the chase afterwards he couldn't catch the guy who was just a normal non-supersoldier baddie.
And it takes away a whole load of emotional story-telling.
[close]

Quote from: touchingcloth on April 10, 2021, 10:11:42 AM
Should one of those have said
Spoiler alert
swallowed
[close]
?
ingested?

touchingcloth

Quote from: bakabaka on April 10, 2021, 10:47:34 AM
ingested?

That makes sense!

Quote from: bakabaka on April 10, 2021, 10:47:34 AM
They were multicoloured, individually wrapped and clattered when they fell to the ground. Just like boiled sweets.
Rather than being soft and pink and you can finish this sentence yourself.

I didn't hear the clatter, but that would make Turkish Delight Wrong. Multi-coloured is expected for Turkish delight in my experience, though.

Quote from: bakabaka on April 10, 2021, 10:47:34 AM
Spoiler alert
As for NuCap having taken the last of the serum, I don't think he did. For one, I'm sure they would have shown it. In the fight he was only just holding his own and in the chase afterwards he couldn't catch the guy who was just a normal non-supersoldier baddie.
And it takes away a whole load of emotional story-telling.
[close]
ingested?

Hmmm. I assumed he had
Spoiler alert
taken it
[close]
. Mainly because he
Spoiler alert
appeared stronger
[close]
than in previous episodes, but also because of Sam cocking an eyebrow and saying
Spoiler alert
"what have you done?"
[close]

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: touchingcloth on April 10, 2021, 10:10:29 AM
Is that a question? It was
Spoiler alert
taken by Cap already, wasn't it? He pocketed it, and in the final scenes of the episode he was booting people around with what I assumed was super soldier strength
[close]
...
Yeah, I thought that was fairly obvious. Then again, Sam has been kicking people across the room since the start of the series, so the distinction between soldier and super soldier is a little fuzzy.

touchingcloth

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on April 10, 2021, 11:10:20 AM
Sam has been kicking people across the room since the start of the series

Has he? In my memory/perception he's underpowered when compared to Bucky. Like when he went to meet Karli in his casual clothes I had an internal reaction of "what are you doing?! She's going to kill you! JAMES BOND'S GOING TO DIE!"

mothman

Quote from: touchingcloth on April 10, 2021, 10:07:43 AM
Did they? Just because it was individually-wrapped, or did I miss something else?

It's unclear really. The individual wrapping, I'm not sure but wouldn't be surprised if it was something that was done. Sweets looked a bit small but again not impossible I guess. And the name is used to refer to a variety of types of confectionary. It looked like something similar to a Romanian sweet which is sometimes referred to by the name - which would be consistent with Zemo coming from a vaguely-located fictional central/Eastern European state.

Quote from: Dr Rock on April 10, 2021, 10:05:42 AM
I heard some reviewer said there were 5 vials left.

Can't be arsed to go back and check the ep but would be interested to know how they worked that out. Sure there appeared to be still vials in the bum-bag, and we didn't see Zemo stamping on that just those spilled on the floor. And we didn't see what happened to the bum-bag, and I can't guess who'd have had the opportunity both to grab it AND the motive to conceal they'd done so. But NuCap finding that one vial was filmed in a "look, here's one that was missed" sort of way. Which could be deliberate misdirection.

El Unicornio, mang

Turkish delight is multi-coloured (although most commonly pink) although I've never had them wrapped/hard.

Good episode, anyway.

touchingcloth

The main issue with the Turkish delight was the idea that any kid in 2021 (or are we 2023 or sutin in the MCU timeline now? And are they just stalling for time with the current films and TV stuff until they can catch up to the point where real life matches the post-blip dates?) would accept sweeties from a random guy in a trench coat who had just been singing "baa baa black sheep" to himself.

mjwilson

Walker has obviously taken the serum. He bends a metal bar in half, Sam looks at him and there's practically a thought bubble coming out of his head saying "Oh no, Walker has taken the serum".

mothman

Quote from: touchingcloth on April 10, 2021, 10:11:42 AM
Should one of those have said
Spoiler alert
swallowed
[close]
?

Yes!
Spoiler alert
Ingested.
[close]
Darn autocorrect. I managed to type out a whole response above without noticing we were onto a new page...

Quote from: touchingcloth on April 10, 2021, 11:09:17 AM
I assumed he had
Spoiler alert
taken it
[close]
. Mainly because he
Spoiler alert
appeared stronger
[close]
than in previous episodes, but also because of Sam cocking an eyebrow and saying
Spoiler alert
"what have you done?"
[close]

Didn't he
Spoiler alert
bend a steel bar
[close]
at one point?

EDIT: what mjw just said!

touchingcloth

Quote from: mothman on April 10, 2021, 01:00:37 PM
Yes!
Spoiler alert
Ingested.
[close]
Darn autocorrect. I managed to type out a whole response above without noticing we were onto a new page...

Didn't he
Spoiler alert
bend a steel bar
[close]
at one point?

EDIT: what mjw just said!

Sorry, I think I misunderstood one of your earlier posts as meaning you thought the serum hadn't been taken.

mothman

Oh, sorry. Will try harder to be clearer in futurer!

touchingcloth

Quote from: mothman on April 10, 2021, 01:55:09 PM
Oh, sorry. Will try harder to be clearer in futurer!

Nah, ignore me - it was bakabaka's post I thought that about.

bakabaka

Quote from: touchingcloth on April 10, 2021, 01:57:10 PM
Nah, ignore me - it was bakabaka's post I thought that about.
Yes, I had completely forgotten the bar-bending. Shame, I was looking forward to some interesting developments.

So being a supersoldier makes Bucky able to run faster than a lorry but NuCap is no faster than an ordinary bloke. Curious. Or did I miss that bloke was one of her supersoldiers?

touchingcloth

I thought he was one of the supersoldiers.

Does Karli's accent seem to be doing the rounds of the British Isles to anyone else? The actor is from Tamworth, but although she's had a Midlands twang in the past couple of episodes, she's been more London at other points. Maybe they filmed the latest episodes first and then had her grime it up a bit.

I really like the character, but there's something about the way it's been directed which makes it tonally adrift from the others. There's something about the way she's being played which smacks of CBBC in that kids-drama-before-Neighbours way.

mothman

Steve and Bucky were products of very different, more intrusive enhancement programmes. The recreated (simpler-to-apply) Nagel-version super-soldiers may not be as good as them, or provide the same range of upgrades (strength, but not as much speed - or maybe even that certain longevity they both seemed to enjoy even with long periods of frozen downtime). A super-soldier not as good as the original two is still a super-soldier in comparison to the average human, and it's that latter superiority most people wanting super-soldiers are after.

beanheadmcginty

As someone who used to work somewhere that was full of American tourists and also happened to sell Turkish Delight, I can confirm that they are baffled by the stuff. The most common question (weirdly) was "does it taste like coffee?" - to which my reply was usually "erm, no. More like soap."
So I think it's perfectly possible they Googled pictures of Turkish Delight (it looked fair enough like some of the posher stuff you get) but didn't check the texture or how it is wrapped.

Kelvin

I've not watched the show, but I just watched the Turkish Delight clips out of curiosity. Is it possible the fault lies with the sound effect people, and they've just added a "hard" sound, even though the prop food was correct?

I.D. Smith

Quote from: bakabaka on April 10, 2021, 03:44:32 PM
Yes, I had completely forgotten the bar-bending. Shame, I was looking forward to some interesting developments.

So being a supersoldier makes Bucky able to run faster than a lorry but NuCap is no faster than an ordinary bloke. Curious. Or did I miss that bloke was one of her supersoldiers?

Spoiler alert
I think he was one of the supersoldiers: during the chase he yanks off a piece of masonry from an archway to throw at NuCap chasing behind him. It's very quick, blink-and-miss it though (in fact I should probably rewatch just to confirm if it actually happens or not!)

EDIT - I did just watch it. Might not actually be masonry, but it's still a large heavy stone object that no normal human should be able to just pick up and lob at someone.
[close]

EDIT 2 - Spoilered the lot of that, just in case :)

bakabaka

Turns out that I should have paid more attention in the movie too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_gbeqsaPkw

colacentral

Quote from: touchingcloth on April 10, 2021, 04:15:43 PM
I thought he was one of the supersoldiers.

Does Karli's accent seem to be doing the rounds of the British Isles to anyone else? The actor is from Tamworth, but although she's had a Midlands twang in the past couple of episodes, she's been more London at other points. Maybe they filmed the latest episodes first and then had her grime it up a bit.

I really like the character, but there's something about the way it's been directed which makes it tonally adrift from the others. There's something about the way she's being played which smacks of CBBC in that kids-drama-before-Neighbours way.

I thought she sounded a bit Bristol.

Spoiler alert
I somehow missed that the bloke who gets his chest caved in at the end is the same one earlier in the episode talking about growing up as a Captain America fan.

I say "somehow," it was probably because I was distracted by one of the extras who was meant to be filming the carnage on her phone turning to another extra and laughing.
[close]

The Culture Bunker

Spoiler alert
Obviously Walker took the serum, as he was able to jump from that window at the end, drop down several stories onto a bus and run it off with no obvious consequences.
[close]
What I don't understand is how the Super Soldier Serum turned Steve Rogers from a weedy lad into a complete hunk, but everyone else seems to stay as they were. It made sense that
Spoiler alert
Walker and Bucky would batter the Flag Smashers on equal footing, though, as they obviously have military training.
[close]

colacentral

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on April 10, 2021, 08:32:08 PM
Spoiler alert
Obviously Walker took the serum, as he was able to jump from that window at the end, drop down several stories onto a bus and run it off with no obvious consequences.
[close]
What I don't understand is how the Super Soldier Serum turned Steve Rogers from a weedy lad into a complete hunk, but everyone else seems to stay as they were. It made sense that
Spoiler alert
Walker and Bucky would batter the Flag Smashers on equal footing, though, as they obviously have military training.
[close]

That's explained in episode 3 by the scientist that Zemo shot.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: colacentral on April 10, 2021, 08:39:57 PM
That's explained in episode 3 by the scientist that Zemo shot.
Oh, the bit about not completely replicating Erskine's formula? Something like that? I probably shouldn't have watched that episode after a few beers.

touchingcloth

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on April 10, 2021, 08:49:07 PM
Oh, the bit about not completely replicating Erskine's formula? Something like that? I probably shouldn't have watched that episode after a few beers.

Yeah, he wanted to make a subtler super soldier serum. Doesn't explain why Bucky isn't as strapping as Cap.

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: touchingcloth on April 11, 2021, 09:33:17 AM
Yeah, he wanted to make a subtler super soldier serum. Doesn't explain why Bucky isn't as strapping as Cap.
I put that down to him being experimented on by Zola while he was a POW, but he never showed any signs of being stronger, faster or whatever when he was fighting with Cap in WWII. I can only presume after he was turned into the Winter Soldier, he was given more serum.

mothman

It sort-of makes sense to me. We don't know what the process looked like when it resulted in the Red Skull. We do know what it looked like when Steve got it. After that, Zola had years to tinker with the process as it was (possibly gradually?) applied to Bucky. And everything else that followed was against a background of massive scientific advances. DNA didn't "exist" when Erskine was alive; antibiotics were at best in their infancy. Medical nanotechnology likely not more than a pipe dream. A brute-force process cobbled together in the 30s/40s would have all sorts of side effects that a finessed fine-tuned process might eradicate whether they were beneficial or not. Perhaps it's one of the reasons Erskine chose weedy little Steve Rogers - because he knew a big strong muscly specimen would manifest other, worse effects. After all, knowing what the Nazis were like, is anyone in any doubt that Johann Schmidt pre-process was the complete Master Race-style package?

Dr Rock

Steve Rogers got the serum and was also in a vita-ray chamber, the vita-rays make the serum work to its full potential. Not sure if they've mentioned the vita-rays in the MCU, but it's in the comics - but other people who have recreated the serum may not have had access to a vita-ray chamber, or known of its importance to magnify the effects of the serum.

mothman

Ah yeah, good point. I'd forgotten what all the zappy chamber stuff was for. Plus, vita-rays DO sound rather hokey nowadays... (even if they did retain them to use in a movie from just ten years ago!).