Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 08:50:04 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Scott Bakula Star Trek Enterprise

Started by Virgo76, March 22, 2021, 06:56:28 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

mothman

Here's an interesting attempt to retcon the seemingly Constitution-only fleet we see in TOS, to bring it more in line with the other ships/classes/registries we see in DSC: http://canonfodder.ex-astris-scientia.org/?Starships___Diversifying_Starfleet_in_TOS

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

Quote from: JamesTC on August 26, 2021, 11:11:16 PM
There was an all Vulcan Starfleet ship in DS9 Season 7.
in the dumbest episode ever

Mr Trumpet

Quote from: mothman on August 26, 2021, 11:32:54 PM
Here's an interesting attempt to retcon the seemingly Constitution-only fleet we see in TOS, to bring it more in line with the other ships/classes/registries we see in DSC: http://canonfodder.ex-astris-scientia.org/?Starships___Diversifying_Starfleet_in_TOS

I love stuff like this

Mobbd

Quote from: Lemming on August 26, 2021, 10:10:11 PM
Speaking of TOS, not sure if this has been brought up before, but does anyone else think it's kind of odd for the Federation to be formed in the 2100s? As a kid watching TOS, I'd always had the impression that the Federation was relatively new, possibly formed as late as the 2240s or 2250s, hence the segregated ships, the awkwardness of having Spock aboard what's usually referred to as a "human ship", the frontier attitude where space is a huge unexplored zone, the frantic anxiety of any interactions with the Romulans and Klingons (although I do remember that Balance of Terror establishes that humans and Romulans first met about a century prior, which Enterprise later expanded on), the general sense that Kirk doesn't really know what he's doing and is just winging everything, the feeling of risk and high fatality rate which isn't present in the Picard era, etc.

Not sure if Enterprise was the one to establish the Federation's founding date, or if TNG/DS9/VOY got there first[nb]or maybe even TOS itself gave an earlier date, not sure[/nb], but watching TOS with the knowledge that the Federation is a century old doesn't quite fit for me. Then again, a lot of things in TOS don't line up well with the Berman shows.

Hmm, maybe it's a bit odd, yeah. I see what you mean. But you have things like Deep Space K7 though, which suggest a pretty advanced space-faring civilisation. As well as the logistics of setting up such a thing, everyone's attitude to its existence is pretty chill. To them it's almost like being in an airport or something. It's not a reaction of wonder like meeting the Doomsday Machine or the Dyson Sphere; it's a relatively run-of-the-mill place to be, suggesting people have been in space for quite a long time. I'm sure there are other examples of this.

Quote from: Wonderful Butternut on August 26, 2021, 11:25:38 PM
TNG established the Federation founding date according to Memory Alpha. They just didn't overthink the background setting of TOS. Especially in the first season. I suppose you could handwave that the Constitution class was some sort of massive one off project producing 10 or 12 ships that were massively ahead of the rest of the fleet in terms of speed and how long they can support a crew without making a pitstop, meaning they can travel 100s of light years from the Federation's 'core' when other ships can't. Hence why they seem to be out on their own so much, and only encounter other Constitution class starships.

The apparent segregation of crews is harder to explain in-universe though.

That is some first-rate head canon. I like it. Love it, actually. Good sense of final frontiermanship, those Connies being all alone out there.

The Vulcan ship and the "human ship" thing don't trouble me too much. Tbh, "human ship" was probably a production or script mistake and while I know we treat those fuck-ups as canon I am not too worked up over this one. We have a "United Earth Ship Enterprise" or something too, right? Even in-universe, we could chalk it up to a mistake: Kirk being blotto on McCoy's secret sickbay hooch probably. That's my genuine proposal for an explanation.

I'm willing to think that maybe there's a good in-universe reason for a Vulcan Starfleet ship as a special project[nb]obviously in reality the writers just wanted to set up a heel team who were both snobby and tough so Vulcans were perfect[/nb]. Maybe it's the way the ship's launch was "funded"/organised or maybe it's something to do with a control group or independent variable in a broader experiment relating to the biological or psychological study of people in space. I don't even mind what the reason is; just so long as nobody thinks a segregated ship is normal and common within the UFP's Starfleet.

Mr Trumpet

Formally segregated ships are obviously a dodgy concept but I can imagine e.g. Vulcans would prefer to serve on a ship with high temperatures and low humidity (maybe higher gravity as well), so they and other aliens with similar needs would be more likely to predominate on some ships while you get more humans etc on others.

purlieu

A quick bump for this as I'm starting a full watch through tomorrow. I cannot wait to hear that theme tune twice a day for the next four months.

JamesTC

It is an absolute banger and I will hear no dissenting view.

purlieu

That is only true if you never enter a verbal discussion about the TV show Star Trek Enterprise.

olliebean

Now, if there were some way to get Netflix to use the Mirror Universe theme for every episode...

evilcommiedictator

Quote from: JamesTC on March 04, 2022, 09:16:41 PMIt is an absolute banger and I will hear no dissenting view.

It is even better if you masturbate to a picture of George W Bush behind the "Mission Accomplished" banner whilst it is on

Malcy

Have a lot of love for ENT. It's a shame we never had a chance to see the great stuff they had planned.

Another instance where books can give us what we never got.

Lemming

The theme song is so fucking good though. Anyone who doesn't get absolutely pumped hearing it alongside seeing the intro is a lost cause.

Love how the intro is how is ostensibly showing the chronological progression of exploration, but then Amelia Earhart shows up after the Enterprise shuttle. I assume it was just unfortunate timing and they really wanted Bakula's credit to show up over footage of Earhart, so you'd be primed to see Archer as a fearless adventurer rather than the useless dimwit he spends four seasons proving to be.

purlieu

Broken Bow. Right then. Absolutely no preconceptions (other than the nagging "everyone says it's shit" voice in the back of my head). No idea about the characters or the plots. Initial impressions: that was really good. Ok, the characters are somewhat non-entities at this point, but I'll give them time to grow. Narratively, it seemed a lot bolder than just about anything in Voyager. Very weird in places, the temporal cold war is an intriguing concept, and the Sulibans felt just different enough to be interesting. Pretty impressed. Narratively it's a definite match for Encounter at Farpoint and Emissary in terms of 'some weird stuff will happen in this show'.

Small thoughts:
That was also a fanboy's wet dream. First transporters, first phasers and first Klingon encounter all on the first mission of the first Enterprise? It's almost taking the piss, to be honest, but I quite liked it. Also really laughed as "to go boldly".

Putting the chalk and cheese wisecracking yank and ice queen Vulcan in a room to rub gel over each other's bodies was really, really bad. Properly cringed there.

"Boomers" has really dated as a slang term.

The theme tune is definitely fucking atrocious, but the end cutting to an instrumental version of it is even worse. At least the opening credit sequence matches the music, but it jars so badly with the moving starscape.

purlieu

lol I always assumed the theme was an attempt to cash in on 'I Don't Wanna Miss a Thing' but I didn't realise they literally got the same songwriter in to do it.

Mobbd

I agree with everything you just said.

Looking forward to the rest of your watchalong. Godspeed!

purlieu

Fight or Flight. Lovely stuff, a nicely grim situation for them to find on their first proper mission, and a real feeling of helplessness. Hoshi's quick grasp of the linguistics was a touch too quick for my liking, but I suppose the episode demanded it. A decent story for her too. Very good. I'm also enjoying how utterly un-Star Trek the whole thing feels. From the very un-Federation attitudes of the crew to the look of the whole thing, it's a refreshing change after Voyager's largely 'more of the same' style.

shoulders

TSSS BEEEN A LOOOWWWWNG ROOOOAAAAAD

GEEDDIN FRAMMM THEYDA HEEEEEEEEE

Mobbd

Quote from: purlieu on March 06, 2022, 05:31:05 PMthe look of the whole thing

I think they got this part perfect. They didn't want to go full TOS-style because, y'know. But they didn't want to throw canon away. Their solution of a submarine-looking set, all riveted silver panels and slightly evocative of NASA technology is perfect. It's plausible enough as a precursor to the TOS era sets without looking like it's made of cardboard. It's one of the things Enterprise couldn't have done any better. A really clever aesthetic solution. I don't know if the Okudas were still working on Star Trek at this point?

Mobbd

Quote from: purlieu on March 06, 2022, 05:31:05 PMHoshi's quick grasp of the linguistics was a touch too quick for my liking, but I suppose the episode demanded it.

This is where Enterprise kinda drops the ball. Those creative obstructions they assumed would be granted by the show being a prequel (all the tech we take for granted in TOS being so young and not quite up to scratch yet) are largely just a nuisance. They're either dispensed with quickly as in this example, betraying the truth that the writers find it boring to write. Or else it's just boring to sit through. The whole point of transporters for example is so that we don't have to watch a shuttlecraft launch whenever we want to visit a planet. Likewise, the point of the Universal Translator is that we don't have to struggle with language bullshit every week. They were narrative conveniences concocted by the TOS-era writers to make things more enjoyable to watch. So the experiment that Enterprise was really all about kinda fails for me there.

purlieu

Yes, that kind of thing is definitely very fan servicey that I can imagine will get tiring.

Malcy

Quote from: Mobbd on March 07, 2022, 01:10:38 PMI don't know if the Okudas were still working on Star Trek at this point?

From The Voyage Home all the way through to the end of ENT. They've just been given a lifetime achievement award as well. They always come across really well in interviews and they have a real genuine love for the franchise.

https://trekmovie.com/2022/03/07/watch-star-trek-designers-mike-and-denise-okuda-honored-by-art-directors-guild/

purlieu

Strange New World. Solid. Not a hugely original story, but carried off very well, and adding to the general tension and naivety of the humans at this point. Surprised neither of the newbies was a redshirt.
Amusing to see that, in place of the usual 'interference', it was 'weather' stopping the away team being easily rescued. The guy who did get beamed up and merged with the plants was a nice bit of body horror.

Oh and fucking hell the CG in this is shite.

Stonefish

I'm forever about to "give this a go" but just can never quite get round to it. I avoided Voyager for a while due to its rep, but it has some of the best Trek episodes ever (as well as its fair share of bad ones, hence the rep).

purlieu

Unexpected. Two nice stories there. I enjoyed the first half with the genuine awe of a first contact situation in a truly alien environment, as well as the TOS meets Farscape design of the ship. The second half's more comedic approach was also a lot of fun, and it's great to see proper early Klingons being mad violent bastards. That said, I actually predicted the Xyrillians were 'hitchhiking' on purpose to spread their young through other species, so the largely conflict-free ending was a surprise.

Another surprise at this point is that for me this is the strongest opening run of episode in any Trek since TOS.

Mobbd

Quote from: purlieu on March 09, 2022, 08:57:00 PMUnexpected. Two nice stories there. I enjoyed the first half with the genuine awe of a first contact situation in a truly alien environment, as well as the TOS meets Farscape design of the ship. The second half's more comedic approach was also a lot of fun, and it's great to see proper early Klingons being mad violent bastards. That said, I actually predicted the Xyrillians were 'hitchhiking' on purpose to spread their young through other species, so the largely conflict-free ending was a surprise.

Another surprise at this point is that for me this is the strongest opening run of episode in any Trek since TOS.

This one is in my Top 5 Enterprise episodes (caveat: I only saw Seasons 1 and 2 and then a smattering of recommended later ones; ENT was where I quit Star Trek but I'd like to "reclaim"/reassess it quite soon as part of my own currently-in-DS9 full-Trek rewatch). It's all about that beautiful first contact situation for me. The sense of awe in the presence of aliens (properly strange and unique aliens as you said) almost matches that of The Corbomite Maneuver. Just superb.

The comedy second half is less my jam but it could have been way, way worse. Not too much dependence on gay panic/"gender bending"-type stuff, which is pretty amazing when you think of the ways in which ENT can be a bit retrograde. Does not need to Get In Glasses Case so far as I'm concerned. An excellent episode, better even than about half of Voyager.

Regarding the Top 5, I'm probably going to keep Unexpected, Aquisition, and (oddly considering the characters involved) Shuttlepod 1. I'm leaving the other two spots temporarily vacant until your re-watch sparks a memory.

purlieu

Terra Nova. Thought this started really well but ended somewhat underwhelmingly, with a dull action sequence and the situation's resolution was hastily handwaved away in a Captain's Starlog, Voyager-style. I thought the general situation on the planet was done well, though.

purlieu

The Andorian Incident. I can't say the twist was hugely surprising, but that's down to being overly familiar with Star Trek episode structures. I'm enjoying the Vulcans being a lot more suspicious in this than earlier (later?) eras. Not bad.


Breaking the Ice. I like the slow pace of this series. Ten minutes set aside to Hunter answering children's letters about life on board ship? Lovely. Vulcan/human diplomacy? Intriguing. T'Pol having personal issues and confiding in Tucker? Nice. Vulcan snowman on a comet? Marvellous. Really enjoyed that.

Mobbd

Quote from: purlieu on March 12, 2022, 08:17:03 PMThe Andorian Incident. I can't say the twist was hugely surprising, but that's down to being overly familiar with Star Trek episode structures. I'm enjoying the Vulcans being a lot more suspicious in this than earlier (later?) eras. Not bad.

Definitely above the quality equator, that one. Good quality so with a nice set in the monastery and a decent script from what I remember. Plus Jeffrey Combs!

purlieu

Ha yes, I forgot to mention him. It's hard not to see him as Weyoun, but i always enjoy his appearances.

purlieu

Civilization. I thought that was going to be the This is Why We Have the Prime Directive episode, so it surprised me. Pretty well done if nothing remarkably original. I wondered when Archer was going to get his first kiss.
Still not completely convinced by T'Pol and her slightly husky 'sexy' performance. She enjoyed taking down the Malurians' weapons way too much for a Vulcan. Not sure if the unconvincing caves were an intentional reference to TOS but I found them entertaining.