More accusations against Mark Kozelek

[PeasOnSticks]

7 more women in Pitchfork:

https://pitchfork.com/news/sun-kil-moon-mark-kozelek-accused-of-sexual-misconduct-by-seven-more-women/

[shagatha crustie]

Fuck's sake. Even though I've not been able to listen to his music since the first allegations broke, I tentatively kept hold of my copy of Ghosts of the Great Highway. Not sure I want it on my shelf anymore.

[Egyptian Feast]

That's an incredibly depressing catalogue of behaviour and I believe every word of it. It was hard to read, but it was heartening to hear the woman in the final story managed to escape an encounter with the cunt.

[holyzombiejesus]

These new allegations include nonconsensual nudity and masturbation, unwanted touching, and one claim of nonconsensual intercourse.

Why say nonconsensual intercourse instead of rape?

[Cuellar]

Jesus christ. How incredibly depressing.

[non capisco]

What a fucking scumbag.

[markburgle]

I wonder when these fuckers are going to just start preemptively outing themselves, trying to get ahead of the scandals and win some brownie points for "honesty"? I mean if they did they'd obviously do it really badly and say all the wrong things because having such a fucked moral compass renders you incapable of even a simulacrum of real remorse, but still. You hope we're approaching a point where anyone with a profile and stuff like this in their past is haunted by the near-certainty that it's not a case of "if" it comes out but "when".

[peanutbutter]

Why say nonconsensual intercourse instead of rape?

Seems to be how the victim described it so it's probably outta respect to them.

I wonder when these fuckers are going to just start preemptively outing themselves, trying to get ahead of the scandals and win some brownie points for "honesty"? I mean if they did they'd obviously do it really badly and say all the wrong things because having such a fucked moral compass renders you incapable of even a simulacrum of real remorse, but still. You hope we're approaching a point where anyone with a profile and stuff like this in their past is haunted by the near-certainty that it's not a case of "if" it comes out but "when".

Someone like Kozelek has always been outing himself in a way though, hasn't he? Like, despite pretty high emotional intelligence in some senses his ego is just off the charts and it shines through in a lot of his stuff, like, pretty good at observing other people but weirdly shit with stuff involving himself.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if in his head he's still like "I am a big charismatic rock star, of course all these women will be glad to be involved in whatever I want"

[Nowhere Man]

The same guy who made Carry Me Ohio and Katy Song ffs

ugh just horrible

[Gregory Torso]

What an absolute piece of shit. I really like the first two RHP albums but can't see myself listening to them again after reading that.

[Crabwalk]

Awful stories. I think we've all known he's a piece of shit and a predator for a while now. Wipe him off the cultural map forever.

Never mind how pretty your songs are, dirtbag. We'll get over losing them quicker than those women will get over their encounters with you.

[Twit 2]

Love(d) Mark Kozelek so another gutted fan here. Managed to enjoy his music for years as I didn't realise what a twat he was. Hope his sales plummet and he doesn't do a Louis CK and monetise his rationalisations.

[PeasOnSticks]

Love(d) Mark Kozelek so another gutted fan here. Managed to enjoy his music for years as I didn%u2019t realise what a twat he was. Hope his sales plummet and he doesn%u2019t do a Louis CK and monetise his rationalisations.

He's taken a different approach to CK, though, and gone for flat-out denial by way of brief, legal-esey statements. The latest one, with its talk of 'those with an agenda,' suggests that he sees the whole thing as some kind of elaborate frame-up. So I wouldn't expect any soul-bearing or contrition from him any time soon.

[Glitch King]

.

[Twit 2]

Sorry, no new accusations.

Just wanted to know from fellow fans, have you deleted him from playlists etc? I have a "Driving along" playlist and "Carry Me Ohio" came on. Normally I'd be like, "Win!" but I was like, "Problematic!" and skipped it. What should I do??

[phantom_power]

Not sure I could ever not listen to Have You Forgotten? again

[Twit 2]

Well, the reminder is in the song.

[phantom_power]

Well, the reminder is in the song.

What song?

[El Unicornio, mang]

Carry Me Ohio is a great song that I'll continue to listen to

[Ornlu]

.

I thought this was a little bug crawling in my screen

Oh but no, I would not not listen to a song because of an artist's bad behaviour, let alone delete them off anything. The songs (Katy Song springs to mind) don't remind me of Mark Kozelek at all; when I hear them I think about sad 14-y/o me, sat around being sad, and all the things in my life I was sad about back then. The songs belong to me and my experiences now. Death of the Author (maybe?).

Would I see him live, buy his records? Nah.
Is that to do with personal taste, or to a lesser extent just not wanting to buy physical media? Pretty much.
Will I still want to listen to him sometimes? About as often as I used to, which is rarely.
Would I skip a song of his on shuffle, even if I was in the mood to hear it? No; see above.

[good times]

I skip 90% of his songs that come on shuffle but have been doing that for years because they're quite boring

[scarecrow]

Oh wow, that last article had passed me by.

On his last album, he did an apology song in which he acknowledges the first round of accusations and vows to put things right with his girlfriend. It's genuinely chilling listening to him make excuses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoAbpizLH9k&list=PLSjb8o68jg5T4FgD_8z1CFLkQYNlSqKtb&index=7

[lankyguy95]

Can't say I've ever really delved into his back catalogue so it doesn't really affect me apart from the fact that I'm not sure I could really skip Medicine Bottle.

[The Mollusk]

Never really got into this prick so can't say with any conviction specific to him whether or not I'd listen to his music again after this, but I can say objectively based on how I've distanced myself from other artists for similar levels of total bollocks like this that I would almost certainly bin the cunt. There's artists who've had huge impacts on me through their music like Ariel Pink and Marilyn Manson, the latter of whom's early works I've been listening to for over 20 years, but following recent developments I've fucked them off entirely. Wasn't a hard decision to make. In all cases mentioned here, the artist was allegedly doing this shitty stuff at the time when some of their most resonant and influential material was released. Continuing to enjoy that is effectively indulging the behaviour of an abuser, and the fact that they're not profiting off me stealing their music to circumvent having that blood on my hands is irrelevant. That voice singing there, it's the voice of a horrible cunt. Can't abide it. Bin.

[Cuellar]

Yeah, sadly, when his songs come up on playlists etc. I tend to skip them now. I know he was accused of all sorts of things a while ago, before this most recent lot, and I did still listen then - so I dunno, probably inconsistent/hypocritical/insensitive of me.

And I was a big fan. But references to previous girlfriends/lovers as 'victims' (e.g. in 'Glenn Tipton') don't seem metaphorical anymore, and it's pretty grim to listen to.

[Crabwalk]

I've binned him off. But it does open a can of worms when you place him against the likes of James Brown. James Brown's behaviour towards women was worse. At times much worse[nb]Look up what he did to poor Tammi Tyrell if you're unfamiliar. But be warned.[/nb].

Knowing that does remove a lot of my affection for his work, and certainly most of my respect for him as a human. But can I bin his music off? No I can't. What does this say about me? That I'm a hypocrite? That I can separate the art from the artist in exceptional cases where I think the artist's work somehow transcends their behaviour? Or when it suits me because their output is so ridiculously enjoyable?

[chveik]

Continuing to enjoy that is effectively indulging the behaviour of an abuser

how so?

[The Mollusk]

how so?

I'm not saying it is literally, but for me personally it feels intrinsically linked. I can't rule out that that behaviour somehow fuelled or influenced the art or vice versa. Personal circumstances dictate a lot of how a person thinks or behaves. Again I'm not stating that like it's an objective fact but I can't deny that it influences how I hear that material quite directly, in that it steers me directly away from it.

[PaulTMA]

Well done everyone

[The Mollusk]

I've binned him off. But it does open a can of worms when you place him against the likes of James Brown. James Brown's behaviour towards women was worse. At times much worse[nb]Look up what he did to poor Tammi Tyrell if you're unfamiliar. But be warned.[/nb].

Knowing that does remove a lot of my affection for his work, and certainly most of my respect for him as a human. But can I bin his music off? No I can't. What does this say about me? That I'm a hypocrite? That I can separate the art from the artist in exceptional cases where I think the artist's work somehow transcends their behaviour? Or when it suits me because their output is so ridiculously enjoyable?

I think a big part of this reasoning is surely rooted subconsciously in how we view the changing standards across the last however many decades. It's pretty grim and weird but for example a lot of people are willing to excuse artists like James Brown or Pablo Picasso or Roman Polanski on a different set of moral standards, probably because of how such issues were comparatively brushed under the rug or normalised to more of an extent than how they are now. I can't deny that's how I've chosen to not think about it in the past but it's something I'm certainly trying to be more conscious of.